Death Penalty for Murders
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If some brutal simpleton kills and keeps on killing, i would put him out of his misery instantly. Does that make me bad?
Simpleton? If they are simpleton are they responsible for their actions? And you would get rid of mentally deficient individuals? sounds fascist to me, like Nazies...
I don't know, but if you mean you would kill him/her, if you do that here in Spain, you will be arrested, taken legal action against you, and, almost certainly, imprisoned. You won't be executed though, there is no death punishment in Spain.
And good thing too. Humanity should go forward not backwards, we no longer have witch burnings! -)
Regards,
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We cannot generalize or apply the same punishment because it depends on each case.
Yes. True. But you accept it as a principle. Either you hold Life is sacred or you dont. If you don't accept life as sacred then Death Penalty is acceptable.
We human, what we consider as a good judgement for an individual it is not a good/wise judgement for a community.
Even as a community we should not lower ourselves to the level of the murderer...
The goal is to protect the community from the harm caused by an individual and dissuade the criminals.
You are saying Death Penalty is a deterent to criminals? That may or may be not the case but I am talking about the principle of life being sacred and that no HUMAN should take another human's life...
Upon a human wisdom, there is a higher wisdom.
But in a society of individuals with different beliefs we can't assume higher wisdom is at work at our human justices systems. We Humans make errors and these errors will result in deaths of innocent people. Death Penalty is final. Prison system is not...
Yes, but we cannot make a rule from the exception. We should do our better for a better judgement.
You accept it as a matter of principle. Like the European convention on human rights Right To Life. Life is Sacred. And yes we can make better and better judgements as humans but with Prison System as opposed to Death Penalty, we have a chance to rectify our mistakes...
Regards,
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Peace,
Lote Tree wrote
The second reason for me against the Death Penalty is that, as been already said, human justice is fallible as we are fallible.
Marie replied
Yes, but we cannot make a rule from the exception. We should do our better for a better judgement.
My comment
To keep the innocent safe seems a very important reason to withdraw death penalty from the countries where it is still in their law system.
I find other reasons important too, but just this one is enough in my opinion. To condemn to death an innocent by mistake wouldn't be seen as a simple 'exception' by him/her and his family, and shouldn't be seen like that by the society either, again in my opinion. -
Hello Elena,
My comment
To keep the innocent safe seems a very important reason to withdraw death penalty from the countries where it is still in their law system.
I find other reasons important too, but just this one is enough in my opinion. To condemn to death an innocent by mistake wouldn't be seen as a simple 'exception' by him/her and his family, and shouldn't be seen like that by the society either, again in my opinion.I agree on this.
In the UK, there has been numerous miscarriages of justices (some of them quite recently) which could have led to many innocent people being executed. If we can't agree on the principles perhaps this fact alone should prevent Death Penalty being used a punishment...Regards,
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I don't know, but if you mean you would kill him/her, if you do that here in Spain, you will be arrested, taken legal action against you, and, almost certainly, imprisoned. You won't be executed though, there is no death punishment in Spain.
And good thing too. Humanity should go forward not backwards, we no longer have witch burnings! -)
turn around Lotetree. letting murderers live is not the way forward .
peace . -
The goal is to protect the community from the harm caused by an individual and dissuade the criminals.
You are saying Death Penalty is a deterent to criminals? That may or may be not the case but I am talking about the principle of life being sacred and that no HUMAN should take another human's life...
peace Lotetree.
actually it is God who gives and takes life . we are only a tool .The Koran 6151 Say Come, I will recite unto you that which your
Lord hath made a sacred duty for you that ye
ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye
do good to parents, and that ye slay not your
children because of penury--We provide for you
and for them--and that ye draw not nigh to lewd
things whether open or concealed. And that ye
slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred,
save in the course of justice. This He hath
commanded you, in order that ye may discern. -
We cannot generalize or apply the same punishment because it depends on each case.
Yes. True. But you accept it as a principle. Either you hold Life is sacred or you dont.If you don't accept life as sacred then Death Penalty is acceptable.
We all agree the life is very sacred and this is why it should be protected.
I understand your point but you defend the the murderer and you forgot the victim..
Let us consider one case, when one kills intentionally and unfairly, the murderer doesn't consider the life of the victim sacred, can he consider his life sacred?.To keep the innocent safe seems a very important reason to withdraw death penalty .
When it remains the slightest doubt and a lack of irrefutable proof, it is evident that the death penalty is inconceivable and prohibited.
It is upon the justice to do her Job correctly because the defendent is innocent if the justice cannot provide the irrefutable proof if his guilt.
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We all agree the life is very sacred and this is why it should be protected.
I understand your point but you defend the the murderer and you forgot the victim..I am not defending the murderer. I am defending the principle that life is sacred.
Let us consider one case, when one kills intentionally and unfairly, the murderer doesn't consider the life of the victim sacred, can he consider his life sacred?.
Some individuals may not consider their life as sacred, suicidal individulas for instance. But as a society we either uphold the principle that life is sacred or we don't.
To keep the innocent safe seems a very important reason to withdraw death penalty .
It is upon the justice to do her Job correctly because the defendent is innocent if the justice cannot provide the irrefutable proof if his guilt.
Yes maire, sometimes irrefutable proof of guild is overturned by later evidences and this has happened in countless cases in the UK alone. Death Penalty would have taken those innocent lives...
Regards,
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peace
I am not defending the murderer. I am defending the principle that life is sacred.
You talk to much thats what you do, and you twisted my words out of proportion.
You ARE defending the killer, by defending that all life is sacred. But God allready said that all life is sacred EXCEPT in the cause of justice. The cause of justice, what do you think that might be?Regards
Noah -
Peace,
Just to see if I undertsand the point of not killing a murderer...Some would say that having a person rot in jail for their entire lives is more 'merciful' than killing the murderer?
If I had murdered someone and I was given the option to be executed immeditaly or rot in jail for the rest of my life, I would without hesitation take the first option (it is more merciful and more humane).
Also, when a person is killed for commiting murder, they are in-fact benefitting by paying the price of their crime on this Earth rather than having to pay for it with God in the Hearafter.
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Peace Elena, LoteTree, all,
Elena
So any killing is wrong to you?
If you have a bacterial infection, would you take antibiotics?
What about if you had mold in your bathtub, would you remove it, or does it deserve to live?
If your home had a termite infestation, would you allow them to eat through the wood in your home?What about those who are being oppressed? Do they have the right to bear arms and kill their oppressors to free themselves?
2216-217
Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.Persecution and oppression is indeed worse than slaughter, for oppression is a form of violence which attacks a person?s soul. Generations grow up without hope.
LoteTree
I find it interesting that someone who opposes seeing things as ?black and white? would hold the position that ?all life is sacred? and that any killing is wrong?no exceptions.
peace
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Peace sis Marie and everyone,
We cannot generalize or apply the same punishment because it depends on each case.
Why don't we try to be 'judges' for the cases I put earlier, and some other cases that has been proposed here, as examples? They are
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A person who puts down a terminally ill/injured person (euthanasia/mercy killing)
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A person who kills in self defense
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A person who bombed a crowded place, killing many people
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A person whose orders result in a lot of killing
5a. A serial killer (without mental problems--kills intentionally)
5b. A serial killer (with mental problems--kills unintentionally)
- A person killing someone who oppresses him/her
For argument's sake let's suppose all of these persons have been found guilt beyond reasonable doubt (thereby eliminating the possibility of innocence excuse).
If you are a judge, whom among those people will receive a death penalty?
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Peace Elena,
The classical questions, I see.
Self-defense in the only justified case. But don't confuse this with the other cases are being discussed here.Well, you are the one that said ?Even killing an ant is not right?. I guess it?s not right only so long as they are not eating your home?
And why is self-defense a justified case? Is your life ?more sacred? or worth more than the other person?
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We all agree the life is very sacred and this is why it should be protected.
I understand your point but you defend the the murderer and you forgot the victim..I am not defending the murderer. I am defending the principle that life is sacred.
Except in the cause of justice.
To keep the innocent safe seems a very important reason to withdraw death penalty .
It is upon the justice to do her Job correctly because the defendent is innocent if the justice cannot provide the irrefutable proof if his guilt.
Yes marie, sometimes irrefutable proof of guild is overturned by later evidences and this has happened in countless cases in the UK alone. Death Penalty would have taken those innocent lives...
I do not believe in the fatality, and especially in justice. When the defendent always proclaims his innocence and the community also believe that he is innocent, the justice has to consider these opinions. The justice is a duty of the individual and the community.
The justice can liberate a murderer by mistake or lack of proof. As I stated above, when the defendent proclaims his innocence, the justice has not the right to do the deaf ear and condemn him.
The justice errors are the result of incomplete and subjective investigations (corruption, racism)...
There is a lot of works to improve the justice system. -
Also, when a person is killed for commiting murder, they are in-fact benefitting by paying the price of their crime on this Earth rather than having to pay for it with God in the Hearafter.
Won't they get punished in hell too?
yes. they will be punished in hell too.
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Hello Noah,
You talk to much thats what you do, and you twisted my words out of proportion.
You seems to talk nonsense like the way you did on the "Why muslim shouldn't drink thread" because you think alcohol is flammable.
But this is what you wrote
"If some brutal simpleton kills and keeps on killing, i would put him out of
his misery instantly."and this is what I wrote
"Simpleton? If they are simpleton are they responsible for their
actions? And you would get rid of mentally deficient individuals?
sounds fascist to me, like Nazies..."And I ask you again - are mentally deficient individuals responsible for their actions? All the European nations do not consider it so nor do the many of the Asian countries and even some states in America.
And have you read history of fascism? and the Nazies, and what they did to the mentally retarded and physically deformed individuals? If you allow mentally deficient individulas to be killed this way then anything possible.
You ARE defending the killer, by defending that all life is sacred.
Are not human life sacred to you? Are we equal before God or some individuals more equal than others?
But God allready said that all life is sacred EXCEPT in the cause of justice.
The cause of justice, what do you think that might be?But I told you. Human justice is fallible and because of this fallibility
innocent lives will be lost because of the Death Penalty.Regards,
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Hello David,
So any killing is wrong to you?
The question was is human life SACRED. The answer it seems to be a resounding YES. Then SOCIETY as whole should either uphold this principle or it should not.
If you have a bacterial infection, would you take antibiotics?
What about if you had mold in your bathtub, would you remove it, or does it deserve to live?David, David we have been discussing free willed human life here as opposed to bacterial cells that happened to infect your bath-tub or your armpit! If you can show that bacteria are conscious free willed spiritual organisms and thinks about transcendent God and then hey yes you can say use of antibiotics on them is wrong! -)
I find it interesting that someone who opposes seeing things as ?black and white? would hold the position that ?all life is sacred? and that any killing is wrong?no exceptions.
Perhaps David you should contemplate and reflect on the nature of free willed human LIFE, perhaps you could see the sanctity of human existence...
Regards,
