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  4. Pork is HALAL

Pork is HALAL

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • I Offline
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    imrankhawaja
    wrote on last edited by
    #95

    i just noticed it.

    rotfl ancient language u need a special translator for this who can decode the ancient machine language.

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      Mahdi_Ibrahim
      wrote on last edited by
      #96

      No counterargument for the above issues?

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        imrankhawaja
        wrote on last edited by
        #97

        No counterargument for the above issues?

        actually lets take it this way

        what arabs say when they see a pig ?

        forget about quran/halal/haram etc.

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          Mahdi_Ibrahim
          wrote on last edited by
          #98

          That does not mean the Quran says it is PIG..

          and when the issue; these two words are not the same

          الْخَنَا زِ يرَ

          and
          الْخِنزِيرِ

          (plus all the above issues.. )

          Is that words mean the same?

          Yes? No?

          https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50943345_2278455669037678_5379525952185303040_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=3c4dd3813048b4a095ccc4aff2bb2364&oe=5CBEED28

          faster, you are so slow...

          So when will you answer the above issues?

          Only He has forbidden to you the dead animals, and blood, and flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah. So whoever (is) forced by necessity without (being) disobedient and not transgressor, then no sin on him. Indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (2173)

          Are made unlawful on you the dead animals, and the blood, and flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other than Allah, , and that which is strangled (t and that which is hit fatally, and that which has a fatal fal and that which is gored by hor and that which ate (it) the wild animal except what you slaughtered, and what is sacrificed on the stone altars, and that you seek division by divining arrows - that (is) grave disobedience. This day (have) despaired those who disbelieved of your religion, so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and I have completed upon you My Favor and I have approved for you Islam (as) a religion. But whoever (is) forced by hunger (and) not inclining to sin, then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (53)

          Say, "I (do) not find in what has been revealed to me (anything) forbidden to an eater who eats it except that it be dead or blood poured forth or (the) flesh (of) swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ) - for indeed, it (is) filth - or (it be) disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever (is) compelled not desiring and not transgressing, then indeed, your Lord (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (6145)

          Only He has forbidden to you the dead animal and the blood and the flesh (of) the swine maggoty/stinking (خِنزِ) seen/considered (يرَ), and what has been dedicated to other (than) Allah . But (if) one (is) forced - without (being) disobedient, and not a transgressor - then indeed, Allah (is) Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (16115)

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            Mahdi_Ibrahim
            wrote on last edited by
            #99

            https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50690202_2278403975709514_242176807636303872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=0bdd45171cd78ab0bd2c9daaaf8f4454&oe=5CF8CAC8

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              jkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #100

              Slm,
              to arabic readers ...
              whats it here the difference ??

              and

              are these same words / meaning ??

              Kaltun peace
              Proofs are glaring and I advise pls read again this topic from the beginning with care and meticulously...
              FYI.... Quran presents laham 12 times and non of those occasions are concerned with any other meaning other than meat... Whatever meat only meat.. Not that....
              So according to language of Quran we cannot drag the meaning of laham to be flesh of any other things except of animal including human...
              Further khinzeer spears and we aware 4 times and before the word of khinzeer, word laham appears... And khanazeer spears once and it is plural of swine and it refered only to the animal....
              If you use bit more sense anf hard word you will know the truth..
              Quran doesn't support the claim of Mahdi.... Me Mahdi I am ready accept your view of it made sense to me and after verification IN quran... I am not a denier of truth when manifest....
              Now tell me kaltun.. What is your doubt.. I am not clear what is your doubts actually...
              Is it khinzeer or laham or khanazeer
              Khinzeer = swine
              Laham = meat of animal including human
              Khinzeer = swines...
              There is no place for decay meat...
              GOD PROHIBITED TGE MEAT OF SWINE OR PORK... that's it...

              If swine is not in this category... God could have so old said... All living creatures are lawful for you O! humans and jinns except their blood, when it is dead or sacrificed other Allah
              There is no decomposed meat here in this category and it is only conjecture....
              God bless u

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                kaltun
                wrote on last edited by
                #101

                Slm jkhan,

                thank you for trying to clarifying to me ... i appreciate it ....thx

                firs thing first , even its aloud ( according to Mahdi Ibrahim) to eat pork , its unhealthy flesh/meat and dont advice to eat it ....

                but jkhan its also make sense if its talking about rotten/ maggots... lets compare it...

                If swine is not in this category... God could have so old said... All living creatures are lawful for you O! humans and jinns except their blood, when it is dead or sacrificed other Allah

                if i eat a meat / flesh of a halal meat , but due carelessness the meat began to rot or get maggot on it , it would harm my body
                but if i eat porkmeat and its prepared in the right way it would not harm my body ( unless i am sensitive to the pork-meat)

                Now tell me kaltun.. What is your doubt.. I am not clear what is your doubts actually...
                Is it khinzeer or laham or khanazeer

                khinzeer and khanazeer are these both same words???

                and if we check this words

                its used when its haram/prohibit

                and this words

                its used when talking about a pig/swine...
                i find it odd ...

                ps if we could see the expression of Imrankawaya like ... huh?? he is arguing with himself rotfl

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                  good_logic
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #102

                  Peace Mahdi.
                  It is easy to prove your argument is wrong. you say, quote

                  What's the point to the issue raised; as to whether it is "meat" or "flesh"?

                  Well, 6146 kills your argument 100%
                  6146
                  For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.

                  As you can see only "Shahm"-fat- of cattle and sheep was forbidden for Beni Israeel." Lahm"-meat or flesh if you prefer- has not been forbidden.
                  Similarly ,according to your take "Lahm Al Khinzeer" -maggoty stinking flesh- was forbidden-hence pork meat is halal'
                  But "Shahm Al Khinzeer- maggoty stinking fat- was not mentioned and according to your same logic it is halal.

                  Qoran clearly distinguishes between "Lahm" and "Shahm " . Like you said GOD does not forget or errs or leaves issues .If Lahm Al Khinzeer included fat, we all have an argument against GOD for not clarifying both.
                  Your argument leaves you stuck, i.e not all "maggoty stinking food" is forbidden, since fat was not mentioned.

                  Don t you think if it was as you say GOD would have said "Aklun Khinzeeran" without the "Al" to give the correct meaning of "all bad maggoty food" .That would have saved your bacon.

                  Thank you brother and please reflect on what has been said to you and what you are saying. Don t dig a bigger hole for yourself.
                  GOD bless you.
                  Peace.

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                    Mahdi_Ibrahim
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #103

                    Peace Mahdi.
                    It is easy to prove your argument is wrong. you say, quote

                    What's the point to the issue raised; as to whether it is "meat" or "flesh"?

                    Well, 6146 kills your argument 100%
                    6146
                    For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.
                    وَعَلَى الَّذينَ هادوا حَرَّمنا كُلَّ ذى ظُفُرٍ وَمِنَ البَقَرِ وَالغَنَمِ حَرَّمنا عَلَيهِم شُحومَهُما إِلّا ما حَمَلَت ظُهورُهُما أَوِ الحَوايا أَو مَا اختَلَطَ بِعَظمٍ ذٰلِكَ جَزَينٰهُم بِبَغيِهِم وَإِنّا لَصٰدِقونَ

                    As you can see only "Shahm"-fat- of cattle and sheep was forbidden for Beni Israeel." Lahm"-meat or flesh if you prefer- has not been forbidden.
                    Similarly ,according to your take "Lahm Al Khinzeer" -maggoty stinking flesh- was forbidden-hence pork meat is halal'
                    But "Shahm Al Khinzeer- maggoty stinking fat- was not mentioned and according to your same logic it is halal.

                    Qoran clearly distinguishes between "Lahm" and "Shahm " . Like you said GOD does not forget or errs or leaves issues .If Lahm Al Khinzeer included fat, we all have an argument against GOD for not clarifying both.
                    Your argument leaves you stuck, i.e not all "maggoty stinking food" is forbidden, since fat was not mentioned.

                    Don t you think if it was as you say GOD would have said "Aklun Khinzeeran" without the "Al" to give the correct meaning of "all bad maggoty food" .That would have saved your bacon.

                    Thank you brother and please reflect on what has been said to you and what you are saying. Don t dig a bigger hole for yourself.
                    GOD bless you.
                    Peace.

                    Not even close...

                    What is the issue about fat etc?

                    I never raise that issue and it is irrelevant / out of topic because I said

                    Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?

                    WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with ... (6146)

                    Allah mention nothing about pork was made haram for the Jews

                    Pork is halal for the Jews.

                    and Allah said

                    The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork <- was not made haram for the Jews), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

                    accordingly, pork is halal for Muslim.

                    Understand the issue?

                    It follows your translation about pork is inconsistent with the above ayats because pork is halal for the people of the book and "...The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you..."

                    Therefore, here Allah said pork is halal for People of the Book and Muslim...

                    and your translation is inconsistent with the verses claimed to be about pork itself... it doesn't says meat alone, but flesh... flesh of meat, flesh of fruits, or flesh of.... etc. Anything maggoty/stinking was made haram by these verses; be it meat or fruits etc.. whatever.

                    see how your argument about pork is full of contradiction?

                    Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)

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                      good_logic
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #104

                      Peace Mahdi.
                      I have shown you clearly the "Lahm Al Khinzeer" does not include fat in it.
                      Qoran has two fdifferent words "Lahm and Shahm. GOD would not use Lahm to mean fat or vice versa (Verse 6146).

                      You are saying"Lahm Al Khinzeer = All maggoty stinking flesh. This is wrong it cannot include fat since Qoran distinguishes between the two. Hence Qoran does not mention "Shahm Al Khinzeer" and according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.
                      Or What would Shahm Al Khinzeer mean to you?
                      Therefore your translation of "Lahm Al Khinzeer to mean all flesh including the fat is wrong. Fat is "Shahm" in Arabic not Lahm.
                      This renders all your argument /logic false.
                      GOD bless you.
                      Peace.

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                        Mahdi_Ibrahim
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #105

                        I said nothing about "FAT", and you have misunderstood the argument/issue.. all by yourself. I'm only responsible for what I said, not for what you understand... cannot help it.

                        Subject matter خ ن ز MAGGOTY (anything/whatever)

                        seen/considered يرَ

                        https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50690202_2278403975709514_242176807636303872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=0bdd45171cd78ab0bd2c9daaaf8f4454&oe=5CF8CAC8

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                          kaltun
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #106

                          Slm GL,

                          dont get me wrong , but did you ever see fat with maggots ???

                          like this ?
                          https//c450v.alamy.com/450v/hn3amd/fat-maggots-market-in-myanmar-hn3amd.jpg this is manmade food

                          its not natural , maggots need meat/flesh

                          if you shahm google...

                          This is NOT a Quranic name, but Muslims can use it since it has a good or neutral meaning.

                          Meaning of Shahm
                          Shahm is an Arabic name for boys that means ?intelligent?, ?sensible?, ?rational?.

                          Shahmun ( &#1612
                          , (, Mb, ,) of an animal, (Mb,) a word of well known meaning, (, Mb, ,) Fat; (MA, KL the substance of fatness (ISd, TA) is a more special term, (, Mb,) signifying a piece thereof () the pl. of the former is . (Mb, TA.) It is said of the Jews, in a trad., the fat that is forbidden to them is that of the kidneys and of the stomach and of the intestines into which the food passes from the stomach; but not that of the nor of the back. (TA.) One says, meaning, ? in his state of briskness, liveliness, or sprightliness. (, TA.) And of him who is deemed weak, one says, ? . (am p. 771.)
                          http//lexicon.quranic-research.net/data/13_c/038_cHm.html

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                            Mahdi_Ibrahim
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #107

                            Fat was made haram for the Jews, with or without maggots. It is not an issue at all....

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                              Mahdi_Ibrahim
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #108

                              according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.

                              You who have iman! do not ask about matters which, if they were made known to you, would make things difficult for you. If you do ask about them when the Qur´an is being sent down, they will be made known to you. Allah has ignored them (pork, for the jews, and order "The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you)". Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing. (5101)

                              even if it is bad to eat pork, no problem... "Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing."

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                                jkhan
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #109

                                Slm jkhan,

                                thank you for trying to clarifying to me ... i appreciate it ....thx

                                firs thing first , even its aloud ( according to Mahdi Ibrahim) to eat pork , its unhealthy flesh/meat and dont advice to eat it ....

                                but jkhan its also make sense if its talking about rotten/ maggots... lets compare it...

                                if i eat a meat / flesh of a halal meat , but due carelessness the meat began to rot or get maggot on it , it would harm my body
                                but if i eat porkmeat and its prepared in the right way it would not harm my body ( unless i am sensitive to the pork-meat)

                                khinzeer and khanazeer are these both same words???

                                and if we check this words

                                its used when its haram/prohibit

                                and this words

                                its used when talking about a pig/swine...
                                i find it odd ...

                                ps if we could see the expression of Imrankawaya like ... huh?? he is arguing with himself rotfl

                                Dear kaltun....
                                I am 100% sure You are true believer.... And also in the process of learning eagerly just merely for guidance...
                                But you have not concentrated what I have written in this entire topic... Pls carefully read from the beginning where it is right... Further you read what Quran says with logic... Kaltun... Guidance is not coz of Arabic knowledge or being born as Arab to clarify what's khinzeer or laham... It's from God He clarifies things... I hope you know that very well...
                                Let me come to your point... CARELESSNES You used... In CARELESSNES you may accept what is actually prohibited for that no need of applying rules... But when you are careful will you eat rotten meat? I bet you won't... Coz you are a human.. It's impossible.... Even how much money you've spent on anything when it is rotten then no other option rather than trash... Second thing... If i prepare for you the rotten meat and well presented and at the same time meat of swine... Which one you would be able to eat... Of course.. Pork .... That's why God says when compelled under no desire or transgressing you may eat... What you will eat rotten meat well prepared or pork.... Come on kaltun... Pls read...
                                BTW don't drag kawaja here.. It's not a matter to take as jest.... Coz you have a doubt and you have not clarified what is right.. But I don't have a doubt I have clarified myself whether it is right or wrong God knows... But you have unfinished business.. So please read those verses. And this thread... Coz... We can end up in Shirk.. Making equal to God.. Hope the verse is 6121 and further I am afraid of verse 587..."O you who believe, forbid no the good things which Allah has made lawful for you "
                                further 2168 which says eat what is good on earth and lawful.... Though almost all living things are lawful, God still says eat what is GOOD...
                                After all it is your decision and your life... All I can say is clarify...

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                                  kaltun
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #110

                                  Slm jkhan,

                                  again thx, pls dont ( or other readers) judge me for my thoughts , its upon Allah , and if i read your post , you dont ....

                                  indeed i am searching for the truth ....

                                  and again what MI said makes ALSO sense , not that i am saying he speaks truth, but is it not possible the way he explains ???, if we blaming the sholars about the translation , why is this not possible also wrong translated ....

                                  But when you are careful will you eat rotten meat? I bet you won't... Coz you are a human.. It's impossible....

                                  you know how fragile chicken meat/flesh is, if you dont handle it with carefull it will be bad flesh or like fish also fragile .... pork meat VERY FRAGILE.... so i will study this further and gonna read with carefull.. ( again)
                                  and yes i have eaten rotten meat ( without knowing it ) and made me ill ( stomach flu)
                                  thx

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                                    jkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #111

                                    Yes kaltun....
                                    One day if u understand that quran prohibited pork.... Then tell me.. And till then bring your doubt.... After all God knows best what He prohibited....
                                    I feel sleepy after a hard day...

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                                      imrankhawaja
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #112

                                      ps if we could see the expression of Imrankawaya like ... huh?? he is arguing with himself rotfl

                                      hahaha i know i m worst nightmare for flat earth terrorists.
                                      my posts are last thing what they see before their death. (of any fake ID) yay

                                      thats called height of defeat. when someone say illogical things to person. the person who smashed their every single move. its very natural that i m in ur mind. hmm

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                                        Mahdi_Ibrahim
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #113

                                        https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=a83413d2f72c7b15168d3c0ac22bcd9f&oe=5CB5B036

                                        Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)

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                                        • G Offline
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                                          good_logic
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #114

                                          Peace kaltun.
                                          Shahm with maggots has nothing to do me it is a problem for brother Mahdi..
                                          I am simply returning the logic of the brother back to him that proves he is wrong.

                                          Look again here, explained to you again

                                          Brother Mahdi is saying pork is not mentioned in 6146. Therefore it is halal.
                                          Not withstanding the fact that I explained the context of 6146 . Mainly all items there were additional to the Jews only not for believers of Qoran, otherwise Qoran would have forbidden the items of 6146, but did not.
                                          The common items that are forbidden for both are in 6145.

                                          Brother Mahdi is saying "Lahm Khinzeer" in 6145 verse is "All maggoty stinking flesh".
                                          I said 6146 did not mention "Shahma Al Khinzeer"- because Lahm does not mean fat.
                                          All you have to do brother is leave some fat outside in the heat and see for yourself after a day or two, full of maggots.
                                          According to his logic this Shahm is halal like he claims the pork is.

                                          Therefor his translation of "Lahm Khinzeer" is wrong.It does not include all foods like he is saying.

                                          Brother Mahdi.
                                          You are evading the problem . You are merely repeating your wrong translation and sticking to falsehood claiming it makes sense when you clearly see it does not. Grammatically, logicalyand of course common sense.

                                          Please yourself. I am not going to repeat myself to you.

                                          It is time for you to accept good logic. Do not pretend you do not see the problem.
                                          You are not talking about "fat" because you are choosing to ignore it.
                                          Thank you both brothers.
                                          GOD bless.
                                          Peace.

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