Pork is HALAL
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Peace Mahdi.
It is easy to prove your argument is wrong. you say, quoteWhat's the point to the issue raised; as to whether it is "meat" or "flesh"?
Well, 6146 kills your argument 100%
6146
For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.
وَعَلَى الَّذينَ هادوا حَرَّمنا كُلَّ ذى ظُفُرٍ وَمِنَ البَقَرِ وَالغَنَمِ حَرَّمنا عَلَيهِم شُحومَهُما إِلّا ما حَمَلَت ظُهورُهُما أَوِ الحَوايا أَو مَا اختَلَطَ بِعَظمٍ ذٰلِكَ جَزَينٰهُم بِبَغيِهِم وَإِنّا لَصٰدِقونَAs you can see only "Shahm"-fat- of cattle and sheep was forbidden for Beni Israeel." Lahm"-meat or flesh if you prefer- has not been forbidden.
Similarly ,according to your take "Lahm Al Khinzeer" -maggoty stinking flesh- was forbidden-hence pork meat is halal'
But "Shahm Al Khinzeer- maggoty stinking fat- was not mentioned and according to your same logic it is halal.Qoran clearly distinguishes between "Lahm" and "Shahm " . Like you said GOD does not forget or errs or leaves issues .If Lahm Al Khinzeer included fat, we all have an argument against GOD for not clarifying both.
Your argument leaves you stuck, i.e not all "maggoty stinking food" is forbidden, since fat was not mentioned.Don t you think if it was as you say GOD would have said "Aklun Khinzeeran" without the "Al" to give the correct meaning of "all bad maggoty food" .That would have saved your bacon.
Thank you brother and please reflect on what has been said to you and what you are saying. Don t dig a bigger hole for yourself.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Not even close...
What is the issue about fat etc?
I never raise that issue and it is irrelevant / out of topic because I said
Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with ... (6146)
Allah mention nothing about pork was made haram for the Jews
Pork is halal for the Jews.
and Allah said
The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork <- was not made haram for the Jews), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)
accordingly, pork is halal for Muslim.
Understand the issue?
It follows your translation about pork is inconsistent with the above ayats because pork is halal for the people of the book and "...The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you..."
Therefore, here Allah said pork is halal for People of the Book and Muslim...
and your translation is inconsistent with the verses claimed to be about pork itself... it doesn't says meat alone, but flesh... flesh of meat, flesh of fruits, or flesh of.... etc. Anything maggoty/stinking was made haram by these verses; be it meat or fruits etc.. whatever.
see how your argument about pork is full of contradiction?
Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
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Peace Mahdi.
I have shown you clearly the "Lahm Al Khinzeer" does not include fat in it.
Qoran has two fdifferent words "Lahm and Shahm. GOD would not use Lahm to mean fat or vice versa (Verse 6146).You are saying"Lahm Al Khinzeer = All maggoty stinking flesh. This is wrong it cannot include fat since Qoran distinguishes between the two. Hence Qoran does not mention "Shahm Al Khinzeer" and according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.
Or What would Shahm Al Khinzeer mean to you?
Therefore your translation of "Lahm Al Khinzeer to mean all flesh including the fat is wrong. Fat is "Shahm" in Arabic not Lahm.
This renders all your argument /logic false.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I said nothing about "FAT", and you have misunderstood the argument/issue.. all by yourself. I'm only responsible for what I said, not for what you understand... cannot help it.
Subject matter خ ن ز MAGGOTY (anything/whatever)
seen/considered يرَ
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50690202_2278403975709514_242176807636303872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=0bdd45171cd78ab0bd2c9daaaf8f4454&oe=5CF8CAC8
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Slm GL,
dont get me wrong , but did you ever see fat with maggots ???
like this ?
https//c450v.alamy.com/450v/hn3amd/fat-maggots-market-in-myanmar-hn3amd.jpg this is manmade foodits not natural , maggots need meat/flesh
if you shahm google...
This is NOT a Quranic name, but Muslims can use it since it has a good or neutral meaning.
Meaning of Shahm
Shahm is an Arabic name for boys that means ?intelligent?, ?sensible?, ?rational?.Shahmun ( ٌ
, (, Mb, ,) of an animal, (Mb,) a word of well known meaning, (, Mb, ,) Fat; (MA, KL the substance of fatness (ISd, TA) is a more special term, (, Mb,) signifying a piece thereof () the pl. of the former is . (Mb, TA.) It is said of the Jews, in a trad., the fat that is forbidden to them is that of the kidneys and of the stomach and of the intestines into which the food passes from the stomach; but not that of the nor of the back. (TA.) One says, meaning, ? in his state of briskness, liveliness, or sprightliness. (, TA.) And of him who is deemed weak, one says, ? . (am p. 771.)
http//lexicon.quranic-research.net/data/13_c/038_cHm.html -
Fat was made haram for the Jews, with or without maggots. It is not an issue at all....
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according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.
You who have iman! do not ask about matters which, if they were made known to you, would make things difficult for you. If you do ask about them when the Qur´an is being sent down, they will be made known to you. Allah has ignored them (pork, for the jews, and order "The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you)". Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing. (5101)
even if it is bad to eat pork, no problem... "Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing."
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Slm jkhan,
thank you for trying to clarifying to me ... i appreciate it ....thx
firs thing first , even its aloud ( according to Mahdi Ibrahim) to eat pork , its unhealthy flesh/meat and dont advice to eat it ....
but jkhan its also make sense if its talking about rotten/ maggots... lets compare it...
if i eat a meat / flesh of a halal meat , but due carelessness the meat began to rot or get maggot on it , it would harm my body
but if i eat porkmeat and its prepared in the right way it would not harm my body ( unless i am sensitive to the pork-meat)khinzeer and khanazeer are these both same words???
and if we check this words
its used when its haram/prohibit
and this words
its used when talking about a pig/swine...
i find it odd ...ps if we could see the expression of Imrankawaya like ... huh?? he is arguing with himself rotfl
Dear kaltun....
I am 100% sure You are true believer.... And also in the process of learning eagerly just merely for guidance...
But you have not concentrated what I have written in this entire topic... Pls carefully read from the beginning where it is right... Further you read what Quran says with logic... Kaltun... Guidance is not coz of Arabic knowledge or being born as Arab to clarify what's khinzeer or laham... It's from God He clarifies things... I hope you know that very well...
Let me come to your point... CARELESSNES You used... In CARELESSNES you may accept what is actually prohibited for that no need of applying rules... But when you are careful will you eat rotten meat? I bet you won't... Coz you are a human.. It's impossible.... Even how much money you've spent on anything when it is rotten then no other option rather than trash... Second thing... If i prepare for you the rotten meat and well presented and at the same time meat of swine... Which one you would be able to eat... Of course.. Pork .... That's why God says when compelled under no desire or transgressing you may eat... What you will eat rotten meat well prepared or pork.... Come on kaltun... Pls read...
BTW don't drag kawaja here.. It's not a matter to take as jest.... Coz you have a doubt and you have not clarified what is right.. But I don't have a doubt I have clarified myself whether it is right or wrong God knows... But you have unfinished business.. So please read those verses. And this thread... Coz... We can end up in Shirk.. Making equal to God.. Hope the verse is 6121 and further I am afraid of verse 587..."O you who believe, forbid no the good things which Allah has made lawful for you "
further 2168 which says eat what is good on earth and lawful.... Though almost all living things are lawful, God still says eat what is GOOD...
After all it is your decision and your life... All I can say is clarify... -
Slm jkhan,
again thx, pls dont ( or other readers) judge me for my thoughts , its upon Allah , and if i read your post , you dont ....
indeed i am searching for the truth ....
and again what MI said makes ALSO sense , not that i am saying he speaks truth, but is it not possible the way he explains ???, if we blaming the sholars about the translation , why is this not possible also wrong translated ....
But when you are careful will you eat rotten meat? I bet you won't... Coz you are a human.. It's impossible....
you know how fragile chicken meat/flesh is, if you dont handle it with carefull it will be bad flesh or like fish also fragile .... pork meat VERY FRAGILE.... so i will study this further and gonna read with carefull.. ( again)
and yes i have eaten rotten meat ( without knowing it ) and made me ill ( stomach flu)
thx -
ps if we could see the expression of Imrankawaya like ... huh?? he is arguing with himself rotfl
hahaha i know i m worst nightmare for flat earth terrorists.
my posts are last thing what they see before their death. (of any fake ID) yaythats called height of defeat. when someone say illogical things to person. the person who smashed their every single move. its very natural that i m in ur mind. hmm
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Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
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Peace kaltun.
Shahm with maggots has nothing to do me it is a problem for brother Mahdi..
I am simply returning the logic of the brother back to him that proves he is wrong.Look again here, explained to you again
Brother Mahdi is saying pork is not mentioned in 6146. Therefore it is halal.
Not withstanding the fact that I explained the context of 6146 . Mainly all items there were additional to the Jews only not for believers of Qoran, otherwise Qoran would have forbidden the items of 6146, but did not.
The common items that are forbidden for both are in 6145.Brother Mahdi is saying "Lahm Khinzeer" in 6145 verse is "All maggoty stinking flesh".
I said 6146 did not mention "Shahma Al Khinzeer"- because Lahm does not mean fat.
All you have to do brother is leave some fat outside in the heat and see for yourself after a day or two, full of maggots.
According to his logic this Shahm is halal like he claims the pork is.Therefor his translation of "Lahm Khinzeer" is wrong.It does not include all foods like he is saying.
Brother Mahdi.
You are evading the problem . You are merely repeating your wrong translation and sticking to falsehood claiming it makes sense when you clearly see it does not. Grammatically, logicalyand of course common sense.Please yourself. I am not going to repeat myself to you.
It is time for you to accept good logic. Do not pretend you do not see the problem.
You are not talking about "fat" because you are choosing to ignore it.
Thank you both brothers.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Brother Mahdi is saying "Lahm Khinzeer" in 6145 verse is "All maggoty stinking flesh".
I said 6146 did not mention "Shahma Al Khinzeer"- because Lahm does not mean fat.
All you have to do brother is leave some fat outside in the heat and see for yourself after a day or two, full of maggots.
According to his logic this Shahm is halal like he claims the pork is.your saying, not mine...
Fat was made haram for the Jews, with or without maggots. It is not an issue at all....
and your argument does not change the fact that Allah does not make pork haram for the Jews, and pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim...
Allah said pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim
You said pork is haram for the Jews and MuslimTwisting His words, and inconsistently make haram fresh meat/pork AS EQUAL TO dead animal and blood...
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51515994_2278576255692286_1089165012905230336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=89603edda44036894cd40324a94152fb&oe=5CBB4488
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)
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(nothing mentioned about pork was made haram for the Jews, accordingly
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The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and pork), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55) -
Peace Mahdi.
This is what you say, quoteAllah said pork is halal for the Jews and Muslim
You said pork is haram for the Jews and Muslim.The truth is that you say pork is halal because of your misunderstanding and completely contrary to what Qoran is saying..
I have shown you your error. I cannot make you accept it.The irony is you are going against your "Islam" that you claim should be based on evidence and good sense.
Enjoy your pork brother if you still wish to continue claiming it is halal..
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The truth is that you say pork is halal because of your misunderstanding and completely contrary to what Qoran is saying..
I have shown you your error. I cannot make you accept it.You show nothing and misunderstood my argument all by yourself..
You don't answer the issue and merely asserting blind claims/accusations..
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
not even close to an argument.
but the fallacy of ad nauseam
clear evidence you have no idea about "rules of logic" at all...
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Peace Mahdi.
You ignore the grammar of the verse 6145
You ignore the meaning of the word "Lahm" .
You ignore my explanation of 6146. mainly that in the context of the verses it is talking about additional items that were forbidden to The Jews only. Not everything that was forbidden to the Jews. It did not mention about blood or dead animals...etc..
Well 6146 did not mention meat of pork either . It does not mean it is halal.
You ignore that Lahm and Shahm cannot be the same in the Arabic language.
How can you then call your take a good argument?
And still you continue to repeat the same mistranslation. I do not know why brother.I have reached the stage now where I cannot take your argument seriously.
You are flogging a dead horse, actually a "maggoty stinking dead horse".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Mahdi.
You ignore the grammar of the verse 6145
You ignore the meaning of the word "Lahm" .Really? Read here...
Quote from good logic on Today at 123701 AM
I am afraid brother, by insisting " Lahm" is fleshso you insist it should mean "MEAT ALONE"?
Quote from Mahdi Ibrahim on Yesterday at 095437 PM
nothing said it must be meat-pig or MEAT ALONE(Word by Word) ...and the flesh (of)
Muhammad Asad ...and the flesh of
M. M. Pickthall ...flesh and
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985) ...and the flesh of
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 193 ...and the flesh of
Shakir ...and flesh of
Wahiduddin Khan ...and the flesh of
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar ...and flesh of
Safi Kaskas ...and the flesh of
Abdul Hye ...the flesh of
The Study Quran ...and the flesh of
Abdul Majid Daryabadi ...flesh
Ahmed Ali ...and the flesh of
Ali Ünal ...and the flesh of
Ali Quli Qara'i ...the flesh of
Hamid S. Aziz ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali ...and the flesh of
Muhammad Sarwar ...the flesh of
Muhammad Taqi Usmani ...the flesh of
Shabbir Ahmed ...flesh
Syed Vickar Ahamed ...and the flesh of
Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) ...the flesh of
Dr. Munir Munshey ...flesh
Dr. Kamal Omar ...and the flesh of
Talal A. Itani (new translation) ....and the flesh of
Maududi ....and the flesh of
A.L. Bilal Muhammad et al (201 ...the flesh of
Mohammad Shafi ...flesh offlesh
The flesh of a fruit or vegetable is the soft, inner part.
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/flesh
http//i66.tinypic.com/j5b2v6.jpg
http//i64.tinypic.com/dpzuia.jpg
not necessarily meat alone, but also to date and walnut.
Even the Lane Lexicon said it does not apply to "MEAT ALONE"...
it clearly said "maggoty/stinking" ... "applied" to
(flesh) of a date
(flesh) of a walnutFLESH-meat
(FLESH (first subject matter) + MEAT (second subject matter) ... flesh and meat not the same thing)
inconsistently...
Quote from Mahdi Ibrahim on Yesterday at 095437 PM
(2013 Edition) ...and the meat of pigMeat ALONE...
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31218584_2090517307831516_4558380402319206920_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=6f41b12b91c8d227bf4707416b1b42e5&oe=5CBC7556
So what is my problem? What is there to correct? !
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You ignore my explanation of 6146. mainly that in the context of the verses it is talking about additional items that were forbidden to The Jews only. Not everything that was forbidden to the Jews. It did not mention about blood or dead animals...etc..
So what? Why should I bother?
It does not change the FACT (ISSUE) that Allah does not make pork haram for the Jews...
Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?
WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS ...(6146)
Still unable to understand the issue, in my first post?
https//i.imgur.com/Hsebp0y.jpg
Well 6146 did not mention meat of pork either . It does not mean it is halal.
According to you, but not the Quran.
Quote from good logic on Today at 074758 AM
according to your logic if Qoran does not mention it ,it is Halal.You who have iman! do not ask about matters which, if they were made known to you, would make things difficult for you. If you do ask about them when the Qur´an is being sent down, they will be made known to you. Allah has ignored them (pork, for the jews, and order "The FOOD OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK (pork) is also halal for you)". Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing. (5101)
even if it is bad to eat pork, no problem... "Allah is Ever-Forgiving, All-Forbearing."(5101)
So where is your authority from the Quran that it is haram (things Allah does not mentioned in the Quran)?
What verse?
You ignore that Lahm and Shahm cannot be the same in the Arabic language.
Who said about FAT?
You are putting an argument into my mouth..
and I've already explained this so many times that this has nothing to do with FAT.
https//static.abcteach.com/content_preview/p/poster_fallacy_redherring_p.jpg
The issue is Allah mentioned nothing that pork was made haram for the Jews, it is halal to them.... and accordingly it is halal to Muslim.
https//scontent.fkul7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50690202_2278403975709514_242176807636303872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul7-1.fna&oh=0bdd45171cd78ab0bd2c9daaaf8f4454&oe=5CF8CAC8
How can you then call your take a good argument?
And still you continue to repeat the same mistranslation. I do not know why brother.I have reached the stage now where I cannot take your argument seriously.
You are flogging a dead horse, actually a "maggoty stinking dead horse".another blind claims and...
Same thing, please study LOGIC.
https//slideplayer.com/slide/9005189/27/images/46/The+ad+nauseam+fallacy+is+really+more+of+a+persuasive+tactic+rather+than+a+form+of+logic..jpg
That is LOGIC FAILED.
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Peace Mahdi.
Jesus was right about the "log in one s eye".
Your AD NAUSEAM fallacy in this thread is the biggest by far and clear for all the readers to see.
Have more of it. It is your thread.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Jesus was right about the "log in one s eye".
another ad nauseam, by Jesus.
- By deceiving the audience into thinking that the counter objections have been dealt with (when they really have not).
https//image.slidesharecdn.com/00bargumentationacademiclanguage6thgrade-140107232719-phpapp01/95/what-is-an-argument-a-foundation-for-ela-in-the-common-core-era-8-638.jpg?cb=1389137651
https//creativeconflictwisdom.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/11143187_10152828270794646_8544693025519827565_n.jpg
Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)
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peace -- topic is dumb; horrible cross-reference, logic, and translations.
can't use pig in one verse to mean "rotten/stinky" whatever in another.likewise...
lahma consists of everything including 6146 fat theirs dual
khinziri/swine (noun) meat, fat, skin etc., see fish/bird examples2173 and flesh the swine
53 and flesh the swine
16115 and flesh the swine560 and the swines (compares human behavior)
6145 flesh swine2259 we cover it flesh of
2314 so cover we of the bones flesh of
4912 that devoured flesh brother his1614 the sea to thou eat ye of from it flesh of
3512 and from each thou eating flesh of (e.g. whole fish)2237 never reach the god flesh theirs
5222 with fruit and flesh from what desiring
5621 and flesh bird/fowl from what desiring (e.g. whole bird)