Why shirk is a gross sin and unforgivable!

shukri

Thanks bro Mazhar and Bro Noon for the inputs
But i'm still adhering to my believe that the word of Al-Mutakabbir (المُتَكَبِّرُ ) can literally translate as "The arrogant"

Just to wrap up my points
I think the literal meaning of Al-Mutakabbir should be equal to "The arrogant"
The translator should avoid using his opinion in translating quran
Don't be bias or make presumption and prejudice in translating
Just give the literal translation of Al-Mutakabbir (المُتَكَبِّرُ )and it's up to the reader to interpret it

The God's nature will be vague if some God attributes in the quran are not translate literally
Other example is the attribute of Zun-Tiqam (ذُو انتِقامٍ) in verse 34
Some say it's means Lord of Retribution/Able to Requite/capable to revenge/extracting in Revenge/etc
But not many dare to translate it as Avenger (RK) and Vengeful (Arberry)

We as God servants are not entitled to decide which attributes are good or bad.
God is the Wahed who lives independently and needs nothing from others.
Arrogant only a bad trait for humans (imperfect entities) but not for the perfect one such as God.
This trait is the manifestation of His Dignity and The Oneness.

Don't take for granted the attributes of Merciful and Forgiving
Because in some cases these attributes will be superseded by attribute of "The Arrogant"
AND that's why the shirk is unforgivable sin but other sins is "negotiable"

Al-Mutakabbir for me is one of the dominant attributes in God's Asmaul-husna
Shirk in any form is a doom to mankind.
So we must be very careful about the attribute of Al-Mutakabbir!

Ends.
May God keep us away from shirk
Thank you.
*Just my opinion, maybe correct may be not!

Iyyaka

Thanks bro Mazhar and Bro Noon for the inputs
But i'm still adhering to my believe that the word of Al-Mutakabbir (المُتَكَبِّرُ ) can literally translate as "The arrogant"
*Just my opinion, maybe correct may be not!

Salam aleykoum,

So you translate God as "The arrogant" in ? Strange..but your choice.

l-mutakabbir = literally translate as the possessor of all/intense greatness. (Form V which express an intensive sense of form I for this intransitive verb)

Only God can proclaim himself the possessor of a high greatness (it is a fact).
Attributed to humans it takes a negative meaning in the Quran "take pride in sth".

Peace

shukri

More proof that The Oneness should have the attribute of Arrogance (very proud of Himself)
If there were gods in them except for God, then they would have been ruined. Glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne from what they describe (FM translation)
Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they would surely go to ruin; so glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne, above that they describe! (Arberry)

Now we use Al-Muzzammil Method (https//al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html)
Concatenate verse 2122 along with the first verse mentioning a word of المُتَكَبِّرُ in the Quran i.e 5923
AND we get this Code

5923 He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified (المُتَكَبِّرُ). God be glorified; far above having partners (the first word of المُتَكَبِّرُ mentions in the Quran)
2122 If there were gods in them except for God, then they would have been ruined. Glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne from what they describe.
--> (22) (23) = 117 x 19 ... Verses without chapters
Position 7 Disbelievers ... refers to people mentions in verse 2121
Level 3 Include Missing Information
(Indication Verse 2122 is interrelated to attribute المُتَكَبِّرُ)

shukri

More proof that The Oneness should have the attribute of Arrogance (very proud of Himself)
If there were gods in them except for God, then they would have been ruined. Glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne from what they describe (FM translation)
Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they would surely go to ruin; so glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne, above that they describe! (Arberry)

Now we use Al-Muzzammil Method (https//al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html)
Concatenate verse 2122 along with the first verse mentioning a word of المُتَكَبِّرُ in the Quran i.e 5923
AND we get this Code

5923 He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified (المُتَكَبِّرُ). God be glorified; far above having partners (the first word of المُتَكَبِّرُ mentions in the Quran)
2122 If there were gods in them except for God, then they would have been ruined. Glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne from what they describe.
--> (22) (23) = 117 x 19 ... Verses without chapters
Position 7 Disbelievers ... refers to people mentions in verse 2121
Level 3 Include Missing Information
(Indication Verse 2122 is interrelated to attribute المُتَكَبِّرُ)

Another proof that The Oneness should have the attribute of Arrogance (very proud of Himself)

1742 Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne." (RK translation)

Noon_waalqalami

2122 If there were gods in them except for God, then they would have been ruined. Glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne from what they describe.

1742 Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."

12100 ورفع and raise ابوىه parents two his على upon العرش the throne (exclude)

العرش the throne 754
العرش the throne 9129
العرش the throne 103
العرش the throne 132
العرش the throne 1742
العرش the throne 205
العرش the throne 2122
العرش the throne 2386
العرش the throne 23116
العرش the throne 2559
العرش the throne 2726
العرش the throne 324
العرش the throne 3975
العرش the throne 407
العرش the throne 4015
العرش the throne 4382
العرش the throne 574
العرش the throne 8120
العرش the throne 8515

7 9 10 13 17 20 21 23 23 25 27 32 39 40 40 43 57 81 85 = 19 x …!

hawk99

To my friends here,
I just want to repeat my previous question
Please answer it YES or NO (honestly without any pre-assumption or prejudice)

My question is
If we translate literally word by word and we put "arrogant" instead of "Supreme/greatened/etc" and leave it to people to self-interprete themself,
Is it wrong or not?

Yes it would be wrong because "arrogant" is a human and jinn character trait,
a flaw, a lie. While Allah has no such flaws.

Remember Iblis was arrogant and was dismissed by Allah. But if Allah says
he is supreme it is a fact, not false or arrogance.

https//aboutislam.net/reading-islam/understanding-islam/god-is-al-mutakabbir-does-it-mean-he-is-arrogant/

peace

shukri

12100 ورفع and raise ابوىه parents two his على upon العرش the throne (exclude)

العرش the throne 754
العرش the throne 9129
العرش the throne 103
العرش the throne 132

7 9 10 13 17 20 21 23 23 25 27 32 39 40 40 43 57 81 85 = 19 x …!

Bro Noon!

I don't understand your Code and its relevance to the topic we are discussing here.
But if you refer to Al-Muzzammil method, please take note that this particular method only uses the combination of "Chapter and verse" or "verses alone" and NOT "Chapter alone". Using Chapter alone without verse is null and void!

shukri

Yes it would be wrong because "arrogant" is a human and jinn character trait,
a flaw, a lie. While Allah has no such flaws.

Remember Iblis was arrogant and was dismissed by Allah. But if Allah says
he is supreme it is a fact, not false or arrogance.

https//aboutislam.net/reading-islam/understanding-islam/god-is-al-mutakabbir-does-it-mean-he-is-arrogant/

peace

Thanks bro hawk99 for your comment and the link.
peace and handshake

shukri

My New Stand
At the beginning of the discussion I feel very unsure about God's attribute of Al-Mutakabbir (المُتَكَبِّرُ)

Quote (Reply #11)
"Just imagine a very good person (good behavior, do a lot of charity, etc) will be ended in hellfire if he is an idolater (shirk to Allah a.k.a take other god besides GOD). There is no mercy at all and there is no forgiveness from God. Why? Honestly I do not know the answer, but some people say it is related to the God attribute of Al-Mutakabbir. God is very proud of Himself and will not compromise if His servants take other idolaters beside Him. That's the only way to describe the 'shirk' is a gross sin and unforgivable. But anyway that's only their opinion, maybe wrong maybe right!"

But with the latest findings of these two verses
2122 Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they would surely go to ruin; so glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne, above that they describe! (Arberry)
1742 Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne." (RK)

AND this coding (on Reply #1
"5923 He is the One God; there is no other god besides Him. The King, the Most Sacred, the Peace, the Most Faithful, the Supreme, the Almighty, the Most Powerful, the Most Dignified (المُتَكَبِّرُ). God be glorified; far above having partners (the first word of المُتَكَبِّرُ mentions in the Quran)
2122 Why, were there gods in earth and heaven other than God, they would surely go to ruin; so glory be to God, the Lord of the Throne, above that they describe! (Arberry)
--> (22) (23) = 117 x 19 ... Verses without chapters
Position 7 Disbelievers ... refers to people mentions in verse 2121
Level 3 Include Missing Information
(Indication Verse 2122 is interrelated to attribute المُتَكَبِّرُ)"

Now I am quite sure that the attribute "Arrogance" is one of the "God's asmaul-husna" (as the manifestation of His dignity and the Oneness) and the Quran translation by Prof. Dr. H. Mahmud Yunus (Indonesian) is very correct.

NoteThe attribute of Al-Mutakabbir (المُتَكَبِّرُ) is only for God alone and Not for others. Human/jinn or other God's creations are strictly forbidden.

Thank you.
So long!

Noon_waalqalami

Bro Noon!

I don't understand your Code and its relevance to the topic we are discussing here.
But if you refer to Al-Muzzammil method, please take note that this particular method only uses the combination of "Chapter and verse" or "verses alone" and NOT "Chapter alone". Using Chapter alone without verse is null and void!

not my code it is you who keeps bringing up this nineteen nonsense every other post
occurrences the almighty throne 19 times which includes 9129 which people reject

likewise you need to study before posting clueless nonsense like "the arrogant" etc.

magnify no letter seen

2 185 ولتكبروا and to magnify ye of
7 13 تتكبر thou magnify
7 146 ىتكبرون magnifying
16 29 المتكبرىن those who magnify they
22 37 لتكبروا to thou magnify ye of
39 60 للمتكبرىن for those who magnify they
39 72 المتكبرىن those who magnify they
40 27 متكبر who magnify
40 35 متكبر who magnify
40 76 المتكبرىن those who magnify they

verses alone!
185 13 146 29 37 60 72 27 35 76 = 19 x 97437612072424856504

l-mutakabiru
59 23 المتكبر the magnificent (one)

59 is prime! 23 is prime! 5923 is prime!
الله 2699 is prime! divisible by only one!

arrogant/proud with letter seen

2 34 واستكبر and acts (was) arrogant
2 87 استكبرتم acts arrogant you (pl.)
4 172 وىستكبر and acted arrogant
4 173 واستكبروا and acts arrogant they of
5 82 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
6 93 تستكبرون thou act arrogantly
7 36 واستكبروا and acts arrogant they of
7 40 واستكبروا and acts arrogant they of
7 48 تستكبرون thou act arrogantly
7 75 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
7 76 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
7 88 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
7 133 فاستكبروا so acts arrogant they of
7 206 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
10 75 فاستكبروا so acts arrogant they of
14 21 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
16 22 مستكبرون who act arrogantly
16 23 المستكبرىن those arrogant being
16 49 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
21 19 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
23 46 فاستكبروا so acts arrogant they of
23 67 مستكبرىن who act arrogant they
25 21 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
28 39 واستكبر and acts arrogant
29 39 فاستكبروا so acts arrogant they of
31 7 مستكبرا who act arrogantly
32 15 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
34 31 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
34 32 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
34 33 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
35 43 استكبرا istikbaran/acts proud of
37 35 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
38 74 استكبر acts arrogant
38 75 استكبرت acts arrogant thou
39 59 واستكبرت and acts arrogant thou
40 47 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
40 48 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
40 60 ىستكبرون acted arrogantly
41 15 فاستكبروا so acts arrogant they of
41 38 استكبروا acts arrogant they of
45 8 مستكبرا who act arrogantly
45 31 فاستكبرتم so acts arrogant you
46 10 واستكبرتم and acts arrogant
46 20 تستكبرون and acts arrogant you (pl.)
63 5 مستكبرون who act arrogantly
71 7 واستكبروا and acts arrogant they of
71 7 استكبرا istikbaran/acts proud of
74 23 واستكبر and acts arrogant

chapters alone!
2 2 4 4 5 6 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 7 10 14 16 16 16 21 23 23 25 28 29 31 32 34 34 34 35 37 38 38 39 40 40 40 41 41 45 45 46 46 63 71 71 74 = 19 x ...!

verses alone!
34 87 172 173 82 93 36 40 48 75 76 88 133 206 75 21 22 23 49 19 46 67 21 39 39 7 15 31 32 33 43 35 74 75 59 47 48 60 15 38 8 31 10 20 5 7 7 23 = 19 x …!

miraculous!

peace!

shukri

My dear friends,
In the Old Testament I found a God's attribute called "Jealous"

For you must not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Since the translation of God's attributes in the Quran seems very "tailor-made" (at least for me)
I'm not sure whether this attribute (jealousy) is also mentioned in the Quran.

My question for the arabic experts here, may I know
Is there any God's attribute in the quran literally means this kind of attribute (a jealous god)?
OR Is there any Quran verses confirming this attribute!

Note I'm in the process of learning God's attributes based on true reality not based on translator's assumptions. With this study I hope I will understand the true nature of God. Forgive me my Lord if I'm mistaken and please give me Your guidance and mercy!

Glory be to God.

good_logic

Peace shukri.
Then you have to pursue your line of thoughts and see where it gets you?

Next you will come across "GOD is the best of the MAKIREEN" and you need to reflect on all the good and bad things that come from good and evil and weigh up the GOD attributes regarding the evil thinking side!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

shukri

Peace shukri.
Then you have to pursue your line of thoughts and see where it gets you?

Next you will come across "GOD is the best of the MAKIREEN" and you need to reflect on all the good and bad things that come from good and evil and weigh up the GOD attributes regarding the evil thinking side!
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Thanks for your comment.
Do you have any ideas on my Reply #26!
Salam.

good_logic

Peace shukri.

Lije their counterpart the Muslims, those before them have many false interpretations.

GOD simply cannot take on any negative/bad attributes.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

shukri

Peace shukri.

Lije their counterpart the Muslims, those before them have many false interpretations.

GOD simply cannot take on any negative/bad attributes.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

For you it was a false interpretation.
It's okay Sir, thank you.

Noon_waalqalami

In the Old Testament I found a God's attribute called "Jealous"

For you must not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Since the translation of God's attributes in the Quran seems very "tailor-made" (at least for me)
I'm not sure whether this attribute (jealousy) is also mentioned in the Quran.

https//biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7067.htm

peace – jealous, envious, covetous, desirous etc., are all human traits e.g. 2109, 1135

https//i.postimg.cc/4JXKXjQ1/ch112v2-ch114v6.jpg

see 7th line from bottom
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/180?handschrift=13

7180 ولله and to god الاسما the names of الحسنى the finest (best) فادعوه so invoke ye him بها in/by them وذروا and leave (forsake) ye of الذىن the ones ىلحدون who distorting فى in اسمىه names his سىجزون they will be compensated ما what كانوا be they of ىعملون working

shukri

https//biblehub.com/hebrew/strongs_7067.htm

peace – jealous, envious, covetous, desirous etc., are all human traits e.g. 2109, 1135

https//i.postimg.cc/4JXKXjQ1/ch112v2-ch114v6.jpg

see 7th line from bottom
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/180?handschrift=13

7180 ولله and to god الاسما the names of الحسنى the finest (best) فادعوه so invoke ye him بها in/by them وذروا and leave (forsake) ye of الذىن the ones ىلحدون who distorting فى in اسمىه names his سىجزون they will be compensated ما what كانوا be they of ىعملون working

Thank Bro Noon for your input especially this verse
7180 To God belongs the most beautiful names; call upon Him therewith, and disregard those who distort His names. They will be requited for their sins.

I hope I didn't distort His name of Al-Mutakabbir.
Maybe different in understanding the real meaning of the word.
My Reply #11, Reply #16 and Reply #24 are referred

But with this name (Al-Mutakabbir) a lot of things has changed in my daily life
When I know He is "Arrogant" and only accept the best from His servants
I'm now very careful in submitting to God
Salat (audience with God) for instance, I do it at a very beginning of the time, properly dress and well behaved
Observe in politeness and submissiveness(خَاشِعِينَ).

Also with this attribute (arrogance/zero tolerate with shirk)
I'm now very careful with my ego
He definitely will abandon me if I take my own desire (the hidden god) above Him
AND I will be in great trouble here and in the hereafter!

All this time I was bewildered by this verse
2186 When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided.
Why has my doa vanish into the thin air!
At least now I realise that the attribute of Al-Mutakabbir may be the barrier between God and me.
AND something should be done about it!

Always remember No shirk because "arrogant" is one of His asmaul-husna.
Any shirk in any form is unacceptable to God.

That's all folks
Just my take
Don't be mad on me!
Sorry for any inconvenience
AND so long.

May GOD forgive me if I'm mistaken!
2286 God never burdens a soul beyond its means to its credit is what it earns, and against it is what it commits. "Our Lord, do not condemn us if we forget or make mistakes...

Thank you.

Mazhar

//Always remember No shirk because "arrogant" is one of His asmaul-husna.
Any shirk in any form is unacceptable to God.//

The moment you give a little thought to what asmaul-husna means, may be you notice some negativity in English word.

Someone who is haughty is arrogant and full of pride. ... A haughty person acts superior and looks down on others. Haughty people are disdainful, overbearing, prideful, swaggering, and obnoxious.

Aladin_Azra

I think that the root k-b-r is best to translate understood from English "gross". It can describe something big, huge and also some be opposite of "net amount". Thus, especially causative verb forms (II and V) can be used to describe somebody/something from whom nothing is deducted or can't be deducted, its net value is same as gross value. In relation to Allah, this would mean that nothing can be taken from Him because He didn't add anything out of Himself. For example, if we put some goods in some container it will have its new gross mass, which is its net mass + mass of the container.