Almost all pagans are pantheists
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I'm not expecting anything to be produced as evidence as no god entity could exist, if you managed to get beyond the stagnating mind of god worship, you'd realise this also. I'm saying if a god entity exists then the perceptual reality would indictate such an entity, I'm not the one who believes in a god entity without an atoms worth of actual evidence, that belief system is the Ba'alists structure of religions.
Ba'alist minds function on logical fallacies, for example the logical fallacy of cirular reasoning, this can be applied to percetual reality or a religious book, any religious book can be used.
The logical fallacy of circular reasoning-"God exists we know that to be true since the Bible tell us so the Bible is true because it is the word of God"
" HUMAN to bring evidence for the existence of God" yes that's how it works, you examine the perceptual reality and determine if any evidence exists within that reality to indicate a god entities existence.
I see another logical fallacy, the logical fallacy of Hearsay is generally considered very weak evidence if it is considered evidence at all. ... Especially when such evidence is unfalsifiable (not able to be proven false).
The logical fallacy of hearsay - "prophets who performed miracles."
I'm not talking about magic tricks as evidence, but fundmental indicators a god entity exists,as no evidence exists those indicators do not exist, however if you managed to ask the question beyond the god entiry blind faith. The question of "what caused existsence",, if you managed to accept no evidence exists to support the belief of a god entity, and you concluded no god entity could then exist, then the next question of what caused existence could indeed be answered, but not before that acceptance, holding onto the false belief stagnates you.
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Abdun Nur.
This does not make sense,quote
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The question of "what caused existsence",, if you managed to accept no evidence exists to support the belief of a god entity, and you concluded no god entity could then exist, then the next question of what caused existence could indeed be answered, but not before that acceptance, holding onto the false belief stagnates you.""What caused existence"? is just one question that should be answered without conditions.
When we ask that question it means we want to find out "what intelligence" WHO? One can easily deduce that there is a very intelligent design in what we see all around us and in ourselves.
Or do you mean we have to ask "What caused existence" twice? The first time you need to accept "there is no god" then ask it a second time to find out ?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
OK, what I'm saying is your false belief in a god entity gives you the cause of existence of you, the god entity, however it generates a new question, where did the god entity come from, effectively where you came from is a stagnant answer, even if the god entity existed, the question fundamentally remains, what caused existence, for you the god entity but what for the god entity?
This means it answers nothing.
Now you are taking the evidence of consciousness, thought and so design as your basis of a god entity, but that is not the only possibility to that evidence, in fact the god entity diminishes existence in many ways, it removes free will effectively, but we have free will, most do not use it, but it is available, again demonstrating the falsehood of the god entity concept.
I believe the reason most people want the ba'alist god entity is ease, its a quick and easy option, taking little effort and even less thought, and the choice of which Ba'alist religion you apply your easy god answer to is generally geographical, if you're born in USA likely Christian, if your born in middle east likely Muslim, if your born in India likely Hindu etc.
The Ba'alist models are hierarchical, the natural models are not, they attempt to implant hierachy into nature, for example the lion is the king of the Jungle, although the Lion is a plains animal not a jungle animal, it would be more accurate to say the tiger is the king of the jungle.
You cannot determine what caused existence if you hold a false belief, as you believe a god exists, then how can you determine anything about this god entity as no evidence exists, but if you dismiss that false belief, then you may look with fresh eyes at the actual evidence, consider what is actually there and through an honest and unbiast consideration you can indeed determine what caused existence.
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AN...
You didn't answer directly....
Again i ask like you repeated from GA in another topic..
If you were one of those who crossed the sea with Musa, would you have believed in the existence of God? Or would you consider it was just a magic of musa ...
Even if you happen to witness such an astounding incident in your life would you believe existence of creator? That you first answer pls?
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The questions is utterly irrekevant, a fictional evebt that you beleve somehow has any relevance to anything, it does not.
Wow... Somehow steangley I knew that this could be the answer I would get from you... I don't know somehow my guess became true... Okay fine..
Let that be an utterly fictional event that never took place... Left all events mentioned in quran be total lie and let the Quran be a total lie... Fine..
But I suggested you in my previous thread that lets hope that it took place...
Again I reiterate... In case you involve in a similar incident which is not fictional but real and of you witness the incident then that would be enough for you to accept that God does exist or you would deny God still..
So simple my question... How it can be irrelevant? Coz evidence is what you looking for... So I am trying to get evidence... Not mine.. But God's...
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The event is hearsay, it has additionally been proven it was not the jews who built the pyramids, they were not slaves in Eygpt, and so the event is a xomplete fiction from start to finish.
Magic tricks do not prove a god entity, con men perform large scale magic tricks and fool their audience even today.
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The event is hearsay, it has additionally been proven it was not the jews who built the pyramids, they were not slaves in Eygpt, and so the event is a xomplete fiction from start to finish.
Answer the question pls.... Don't divert and turn yourself strawman...
First of all I want to convince that even EVIDENCE is enough for you...
Mostly people who ask for evidence turns violent when the evidence are displayed infront...
Evidence doesn't make difference when it is evident to them... But they keep claim for evidence....Would you still believe of the evidence is manifest to you that God does exist?
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Magic tricks do not prove a god entity, con men perform large scale magic tricks and fool their audience even today.
Well well well... ...
So if you are someone who witness evidence and if you claim it is magic then what evidence you will believe in.... You are exposed... People specially believera are intelligent... You can't divert them...
Even you enter the janna and see everything and come back you would say.. Your eyes were dazzled.. Or you were tricked..
rotfl Be happy with what you are... Evidence will soon touch you... -
Evidence is defined as something that gives proof or leads to a conclusion.
The events is not proven to have happened, and the archaeological evidence does not support the claims of the Moses story, additionally the performance of magic tricks, like David Copperfield is not proof, proof would be within the fabric of perceptual reality. This proof could only exist if the god entity actually existed, as it does not then the god entity does not exist.
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So O my dear believers...
This person was asking evidence from us being Human being for the existence of God....
But he is ready to deny the evidence of God subjecting them as magic tricks...
So what evidence of human being he is gonna trust? Pls be wise my dear believers... SATAN comes in every form possible to him... whatever -
The Ba'alist conditioned mind is quite a thing. The evidence does support something more interesting than the Ba'alist god idea, and it shows we are conditioned to think backwatds about reality by the Ba'alists, who presently confuse the minds of people in both camps the god worshipers and the athiests.
The multi-verse is the Ba'alist theory for the athiests which answers the question of precision of relaity, by saying an infinite number of universes exist so one is bound to be perfect, this is not proven in anyway either, both these ba'alist theories of a god or a multiverse are without evidence.
Instead of clinging to baseless fantasy, look with clear eyes at the evidence that "does" exist.
But as I say the stagnant mind cannot it seems, certainly when judged by the comments on this thread.
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Salam all,
A good article from former atheist
https//www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/the-atheists-burden-of-proof.htmlMost atheists endorse that "it is true that God does not exist". And they continue to state things like "there is no evidence that God exists". If this is the case, why can't the theist reasonably argue that "there is no evidence for God's nonexistence"? The atheist fails to realize that they too must provide evidence for God's nonexistence if that is a claim that they make. They argue their claim is negative, and negative claims require no justification. This is an extremely inaccurate position. Even within the peer-reviewed scientific literature, negative claims are studied, analyzed and evaluated. Several scientific studies reach negative conclusions and they justify such using evidence. Many scientific papers are published solely to provide evidence for a negative conclusion that is against previously held conclusions and theories. If an atheist argues that negative claims require no justification, then they are in disagreement with much of the peer-reviewed academic literature who all require evidence to substantiate negative conclusions.
So why do scientific papers defend negative claims and feel the need to present evidence to support their negative hypotheses or conclusions? It is because a negative claim is really an affirmative claim that asserts the nonexistence of something. This positive-negative dichotomy when it comes to claims become meaningless. All claims are asserting something and thus require justification.
Given this, one can see that the theist can argue that "there is no evidence for God's nonexistence", and the atheist would need to provide evidence for God's nonexistence. The atheist can not reasonably argue, "It is not rational to believe that God does exist, because there is no evidence for God's existence". The theist could reply, "It is not rational to believe that God does not exist because there is no evidence for God's nonexistence". I encourage theists to reply in such a way.
We will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
God has shown, is showing, and will continue to show His signs.
Surely, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the differences between the night and the day, and the ships that sail in the sea for the benefit of the people, and what God has sent down of water from the sky so He brings the earth back to life after it had died, and He sent forth from it every creature, and the dispatching of the winds and the clouds that have been commissioned between the earth and the sky are signs for a people who comprehend.
So for those how are able to see His signs, good news for you ...you are people who comprehend!
Wassalam
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Abdun Nur.
And you do not see stagnation here, quote"OK, what I'm saying is your false belief in a god entity gives you the cause of existence of you, the god entity, however it generates a new question, where did the god entity come from, effectively where you came from is a stagnant answer, even if the god entity existed, the question fundamentally remains, what caused existence, for you the god entity but what for the god entity?
This means it answers nothing."If you reflect you will see that an "Absolute origin" is a must. Otherwise nothing will ever exist.
So keep going back with your"What caused existence" and you will see that there is only one answer. An absolute original intelligence/maker/designer .
What you are asking with your repeated "cause" is the relative existence of existing creaturesSo what is the origin for you?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I'm just saying the same thing as you have cognative dissonance and cannot accept it, so little point continuing this, enjoy you Ba'alist beliefs, although there to your detriment, little can save you from yourselves, Peace.
It's a wonder to see the Ba'alist system of perceptual control, but the Ba'alist are presently working to strip away their support base, it will be interesting to see how the surviving populations beliefs alter after the cull, will they embrace Ba'alism futher or reject it?
Time will tell.
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Abdun Nur.
So at least you realise there is a proper challenge for your stand too.
Like I said to you,why do you need evidence for GOD s existence if you really have evidence that GOD does not exist?And if you had solid evidence that will be enough and you should not worry otherwise. Your evidence will do it for you .
Unless one does not trust their evidence or like all of us realises that GOD has deliberately left some things "open to interpretations" for us humans like religion,way of life,submission and beliefs. His existence is also part of how we interpret the world around us.
Otherwise GOD and His angels would have been present among us and there is no need for choice and accountability.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Almost all pagans are pantheists.
Pagans who worship idols or humans are aware that the things they worship are not gods. But in their perverted pantheistic philosophy, they see what they worship as a reflection, a manifestation, a part of God. Thus, they fall into the trap of the devil. They think they are monotheists, but they are actually polytheists.
The fact that the pharaoh sees himself as a Lord is also the result of this pantheist philosophy. He thought of himself as the reflection, that is, the manifestation of God. Like all pantheists, he worshiped himself and the universe.
The Holy Qur'an clearly explains these facts. At the moment, the only real holy book we have is the Qur'an. On the other hand, the elites hiding the books like the Torah and gave the Fake Torah and false Bibles to the people(hadith books).
And;
Christians(trinitarians) are "half panteists, and so pagans".
Christians "3 in 1"
Hindus "333 in 1"
Pantheists "all things in 1"
New Agers "we are in 1"
These are paganism.
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Salam all,
A good article from former atheist
https//www.answeringislamicskeptics.com/the-atheists-burden-of-proof.htmlWe will show them Our signs in the horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes clear to them that this is the truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is witness over all things?
God has shown, is showing, and will continue to show His signs.
Surely, in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the differences between the night and the day, and the ships that sail in the sea for the benefit of the people, and what God has sent down of water from the sky so He brings the earth back to life after it had died, and He sent forth from it every creature, and the dispatching of the winds and the clouds that have been commissioned between the earth and the sky are signs for a people who comprehend.
So for those how are able to see His signs, good news for you ...you are people who comprehend!
Wassalam
Peace...
Pagans do believe something... Pantheist do believe something.. We believers in the Creator also believe... All these mere beliefs... But why believers do reject all other beliefs and only accept in One God? Is it beyond belief and a convinced state of mind...
We have not seen God, we believe... Then why we reject others' belief in paganism etc...
There is a reason... Can any believer say that strong reason pls?Look at the verse 2164 brother Ade cool brought... SIGN FOR PEOPLE WHO COMPREHEND... isn't it what makes the absolute difference... For example... CREATION OF EARTH AND HEAVENS are signs FOR WHO COMPREHEND... now it may totally go absurd if we comprehend the creations in erroneous way... If the creation of earth and heavens is sign then if I say it doesn't spin and it is not a sphere pear shape and not rotate sun... Then what comprehension... So rejection and acceptance of God starts with understanding how the earth and heavens are created...
Just look at this question....
If earth and heavens are closed chamber and no one can ever escape, can anyone possibly have the faith that this must be a work of someone who is beyond this world? Or if this earth is tiny mote and a massive universe with no boundaries then would that make anyone believe in a creator or most possibly make him believe it evolved? With utmost honesty if the whole universe is as what science say I would never believe in God... Coz that doesn't need a creator... By looking at that design we can perceive it doesn't need a creator coz it sounds more or less perfect for evolution....
Closed chamber can never be an evolution.... That's my take... That's a design perfectly programmed to restrict human and others to it and to live in it...
That makes sense to believe in God... Of course in One God... Otherwise all beliefs are paganism or pantheist or whatever.. Just making monotheist so special won't make any sense... Monothoist need be in perfect side..
That's why researching especially on the earth and heavens is so crucial for ultimate grip of belief in God...
Otherwise anyone can loose grip at any given time to become an atheist...
