Mingling with the opposite sex ????
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Salaamun alaikum all,
IMO intermingling of opposite sexes or same sex, secretly or publicly, is ok as far as following conditions are met
- Lower your gaze and dress appropriately
2431 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.- Righteous conversation
2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say.
- Be aware of Allah's presence
588 Do you not realise that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on Earth? No three people can meet secretly without Him being their fourth, nor five without Him being the sixth, nor less than that, nor more, without Him being there with them wherever they may be. Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of everything they had done. God is fully aware of all things.
- Meet for righteousness and piety and avoid sin and transgression
5810 O you who believe, if you must meet secretly, then you shall not meet to commit sin, transgression, and to disobey the messenger. You shall meet to work righteousness and piety. And be aware of God, before whom you will be summoned.
- Avoid lewd, immoral or indecent acts including adultery/fornication
1733 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.
2569 And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment.
6013 O you prophet, if the believing women come to make allegiance to you that they will not set up anything beside God, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their unborn children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey you in any matter which is righteous, then you shall accept their allegiance, and ask God to forgive them. God is Forgiver, Merciful.6153 Say "Come let me recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
732 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause
4235 And those who avoid gross sins and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offencesIf all above conditions are met then IMO there is no prohibition on intermingling. Allah is Merciful and He will probably forgive minor offences (5332).
Regards,
Tanveer
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And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed
What does this mean ?
Does it mean dancing isnt allowed .. ??? or wearing high-heels etc .. btw Tanverr do u believe in the Hijab ? -
Salaamun alaikum Ammar,
What does this mean ?
Does it mean dancing isnt allowed .. ??? or wearing high-heels etc .. btw Tanverr do u believe in the Hijab ? .. whats ur idea of dessing modestly ?Hijab as a dress code has nothing to do with Islam or Al-Quran. The word "Hijab" appears in Al-Quran 7 times (746, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251, 1745 & 1917). None of these "Hijab" words are used in Al-Quran in reference to what the traditional muslims call today (Hijab) as a dress code for the muslim woman. However if any woman wants to wear hijab as a matter of personal preference or choice she can do so as long as she does not wear hijab thinking it is ordered by Allah. Hijab as a dress code is not obligatory and is left upto the personal preference of women.
Please visit the following link for a detailed article on women's dress code in Islam
http//free-minds.org/women/scarf.htm
2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
I guess the above ayat IMO does not allow women to dance in front of anyone except the categories of people underlined above.
Comments from others invited.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Salaam
Who are "the male servants who are without need" in 2432? Women can show their beauty to them? ?
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Salaamun alaikum,
IMO it refers only to those male servants who are sexually impotent. Sexual impotence is a recognized medical disorder.
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Salaam
Who are "the male servants who are without need" in 2432? Women can show their beauty to them? ?
Eunuchs probably. The past sultans used emasculated slaves to guard their harems.
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Salaamun alaikum Ammar,
do u think Allah would make life that strict for women?
That is your opinion. I dont see any strictness anywhere. Bad deeds and evil has been made more pleasurable and easier, good deeds and righteous acts are purposely made more difficult and harder. Otherwise there is no test. If righteousness was easier and more pleasurable, every one would do righteous deeds and no one would do bad deeds or evil acts. Then there would be no test. Think about it. However people who stick to the path of righteousness and have full faith and belief in Allah and the life hereafter, the righteous deeds become easy for them.
429 God wants to make easy for you; and mankind was created weak.
943 If it were a near gain, or an easy journey, they would have followed you; but the distance was too much for them.926 As for he who gives and is righteous.
927 And trusts in goodness.
928 We will make the easy path for him.Once you realize the reason why Allah has not allowed certain acts or prohibited them then you will find it easier. All the prohibitions are for our own good and benefit and safety. It is we who do not understand and are rebellious. We are like a child. The parents tell us dont put your hand in fire or you will get burned. But we go ahead and put our hand in fire. Only then we realize why our parents told us not to do it. Same is the case with us and Allah.
Brother Taj,
The Ayah you are discussing here is and not .
I see that you like nit picking on others. Brother I quoted from pm translation which follows the warsh version and the warsh numbering of verses. For details see the following
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
Regards,
Tanveer
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Peace,
LOL You people are playing with FIRE! Do not tell women how to dress, tell them to be righteous and it all comes but never tell them how to dress!
If you are not satisfied with someones dress sense then you should find another partner or you should accept it or kindly explain your dislike (again here you play with fire). Best thing is to leave this, especially when the women are fully aware of their dress sense, if they intentionally dress in provokative ways then they ask for trouble and sexual attention then these are the women that are for the men who don't mind that.
Remember the believer man for the believer woman and the adultress for the adulterer. That is quite extreme jump from dress sense and I personally think that some people are too sensitive about dress codes, if you are then you should be a fashion designer!
Nural
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Who are "the male servants who are without need" in 2432? Women can show their beauty to them?
According to tanveermd they are "male servants who are sexually impotent."
But that is only a human being's presumption rather than God's words. What God is saying in 2431 is that those men are the "needless men belonging to the believing woman."
What they do not need can only be conjectured rather than decided on God's behalf because no human being is God's spokesperson.
Some people have mistakenly presumed that the word zeena in 2431 stands for the attractive parts of the believing woman's body. And since God says that there is no harm in her exposing her "zeena" to the people listed in the verse, those people in the list are the ones who can not marry her, such as her father and sons.
However "the needless men belonging to the believing woman" are also included in the list. Who must they be?
The anwser has to be "the sexually needless ones" as only they can not marry the woman.
However, that is against what God announces in 2458, where He says that even the children who have not yet reached puberty are forbidden from seeing the attrative parts of their mother's body; that is her awrah.
Can the sexually needles men be allowed to see a believing woman's awrah while the sexually needless children can not?
The truth is that the zeena mentioned in 2431 are the jewellery the believing woman wears; and the needless men who work for her do not need her jwellery.
In other words, they are the ones whom she can trust her jewellery to. But she is never allowed to expose the attractive parts of her body to them.
Peace,
Hasan -
Salam all. I'm new here. This thread caught my eye, and I decided to check it out to see if I would be welcome...being a woman and all.
I converted to Islam over 20 years ago after reading the Quran. Without going into all the details, it didn't take me long to move away from all the "helpful instructions" I was being given by the Muslims I knew and turned to the Quran as my source for God's guidance. (So finding this site was like finding cool water after a long walk through the desert!)
The passages mentioned in some of the posts here were the same ones I turned to when choosing my own best way to dress. I chose to wear typical Ameican clothes but not things that were overtly sexy or revealing (modest and tasteful).
And on the lowering of gazes, I took that to mean not staring, as some have suggested here already. More than that, I think it is also meant to avoid flirtatious ways of looking at someone. That is, men who want to flirt or try to get my attention in a "beyond normal conversation" way will try to hold my gaze. This also happens with strangers, who try to find out if I"m approachable by using eye contact. There are ways of looking at people...and there are ways of looking at them that says more than words.
For the striking of the feet, I offer this for consideration--I can walk in certain ways that make my body jiggle or otherwise telegraph messages of sexuality. Since this guidance is combined with guarding modesty and lowering one's gaze, I took it to mean that I don't go prancing down the street or through the mall like a strumpet, advertising that I'm sexually available.
And I have mingled with men as friends and co-workers for years...which is fine as long as my spiritual boundaries are in place. As long as I respect myself, others do, as well. If someone isn't respectful, then I don't associate with him.
I was absolutely floored when I was told years ago that, basically, I should be hidden away (either at home or under thick robes), just so no man would have "bad thoughts." My initial thought was, oh puh-leeze...we each are responsible for being obedient. The goal isn't to avoid tests of faith but to pass them.
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Salamun alaikum sis Sytalls,
Welcome. And that's a great post you wrote.
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salam sytalls
and welcome
i adher to your view posted above and have followed a similar way also converted about 20 years ago and have been long time in the spiritual desert, same ideas on dressing, staring, walking,...
What i would like to add all depends on where you are (be in country, or context,...) i believe one has to adapt to the circumstances (hey your not obliged to go to that "naked beach" though... lol
this post of yours would also be well placed on the "women as sex objects" thread. Decent dress and attitude resolve most problems
Elke
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Thank you, Elke. And salam.
I totally agree about location. In making my choice, I thought that wearing clothes that weren't part of my culture would actually draw more attention than wearing, say, business attire.
D If we'd crossed paths out there in the desert, we could've shared a campfire and talked about the Quran.
There were times when people would talk so much about the hadith that I wondered if they'd ever actually opened a copy of the Quran. This one young woman (American) I met just a couple of months ago had recently converted (after marrying a Sunni Muslim) and was all covered up from head to toe. When I asked her if she found the Quran as beautiful and spiritually fulfilling as I had, she said she hadn't read it yet. She was studying the hadith and would get to the Quran later.
This situation was tough. I told her my views and recommended she go ahead and read the Quran. But I was concerned about pushing the issue too much, since I feared for her safety at home.
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Salaamun alaikum sytalls,
She was studying the hadith and would get to the Quran later.
UNBELIEVABLE. It is so unfortunate that "muslims" who are supposed to uphold the Quran as the source of law and guidance are not doing it, instead they are deserting it. Looks like satan is having a heyday !
2531 And the messenger said "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."