The Universe
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Salam jkhan,
- Watch a ship sail off to sea
Without being in the sky, it is impossible to see the curvature of the Earth. However, you can always see a demonstration of this if you visit a harbor or any place with a wide-open view of the water.
If you are able to watch a ship sail off to sea, watch its mast and flag as it fades off into the distance. You will notice that, in fact, it does not "fade off into the distance" at all; instead, you will see its mast and flag appear to slowly sink. The ship sailed beyond the point at which you would see it. Just to be sure, bring a pair of binoculars with you so that you can see even farther off into the distance.
It's as if you're watching it go over to the other side of a hill. This phenomenon can only be explained by a sphere-shaped planet.
above is the best explanation of the Globe Earthers.. All scientists say the same..
Let me ask those who are open and rational in their reflection…
Have you ever witnessed a ship sailing and disappear at the horizon? Perhaps most of you..
The possible distance that you see with your naked eye roughly 5kms.. First you see the mast disappear and the flag… BUT have you ever noticed how long it takes it to disappear? I saw a huge ship perhaps 7 floors in it and it reached to the extreme horizon to our naked eye… Then it took only one minute to disappear from my eyes.. Approximately ship may be 100 feet since it had 7 floors… So my coherent question to all those use their own wits is how can such a tall ship disappear that quickly coz of curvature of the earth?
Suppose if you see a man in a 50 feet hill and if he goes down from the hill to other side, first you will see his legs disappear and up until his hips and shoulder and head…it depends on how steep/slope the hill is? If the hill is 45 degree from all angel you will see him disappear so fast if he walk in normal pace…So apply the same logic for ship and horizon? How can such a tall ship disappear for the reason of curvature of the earth which is just at the distance of 5 kms? So at 5 km distance we see 100 feet slop / steep or rather curvature? That’s total rubbish.. (Coz science say only 8 inches for every mile).. contrary to that if such a slope is there at 5 km distance, then if you look at the area where ship disappeared from an altitude you should inevitably observe a big steep/slope ..
So it is obvious it is not the reason of curvature but it is the maximum distance in which objects (moving/ship) disappear for naked eye..
If the disappearance is due to maximum distance for naked eye, then when using binoculars one should be able to see again what has disappeared in case the earth is flat.
If the disappearance is due to curvature, then using binoculars will not help.
- Watch a ship sail off to sea
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Salam jkhan,
If the disappearance is due to maximum distance for naked eye, then when using binoculars one should be able to see again what has disappeared in case the earth is flat.
If the disappearance is due to curvature, then using binoculars will not help.
Peace... Ade cool
Well.. You have not researched enough to raise this question... Otherwise you wouldn't have raised.. Binoculars are nothing.. Thanks to latest technology we can see moving objects at the horizon even after it dissapeared it appears.. Such cameras are real worth buying dude.. I wish I have one now.. Lol..
Note well.. The naked eye and latest technology of lenses of cameras are not different.. Camera catches same as what our eye sight.. For example for our sight street light poles seems to be touching floor at the diatance..even camera catches the same.. Though it is not our eye sight.. But they are powerful than our eyesight.. That's why they even catch the vanished object again in horizon.. But nothing can catch beyond a limit.. Coz natural eyesight and camera technology is same.. Let's hope they develop further so that we catch objects which are dissapeared 10 minutes before also visible.. But for your question there is definitely cameras which captures objects that dissapeared in horizon already to naked eyes from the same altitude..
Thank you.. Hope you reflect upon it.. -
peace, with over 3000 satellites launched by numerous countries including GPS technology which flat earth believers use is like arguing with ~ 20 million Americans that believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows! laugh
strawman's argument when stuck with nothing to say relevant to topic.. rotfl rotfl
clear hypocrisySorry Bro but it is so ridiculous...
According to your own definition of hypocrisy "Hypocrites are those after knowing the truth still act as they do not know.. That's one of the key of being a hypocrite.." (https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607938.10), and after watching this video (https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDU-rZs-Ic4), ask yourself who is an "hypocrite" ?
NB
- If you do not take the Quran as a book of science (in its modern acceptation) then you will see that you will not have to choose between the Quran and modern science (or like others to twist the words of the Quran or making fragile interpolations to teach us that the Quran had predicted the future scientific insights of our time)
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strawman's argument when stuck with nothing to say relevant to topic.. rotfl rotfl
clear hypocrisySorry Bro but it is so ridiculous...
According to your own definition of hypocrisy "Hypocrites are those after knowing the truth still act as they do not know.. That's one of the key of being a hypocrite.." (https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607938.10), and after watching this video (https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDU-rZs-Ic4), ask yourself who is an "hypocrite" ?
NB
- If you do not take the Quran as a book of science (in its modern acceptation) then you will see that you will not have to choose between the Quran and modern science (or like others to twist the words of the Quran or making fragile interpolations to teach us that the Quran had predicted the future scientific insights of our time)
No need to be sorry...
God says you know them by their tone... -
3640 “It is not allowable/permitted /befit (yanbaghī) for the sun to reach/overtake/grasp the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.
The above verse in comparison with modern science in relation to the universe and our solar system makes me to laugh at .. I am not mocking the verse of God… This verse makes me to ponder how solar system and Universe is possible with the above verse…
Sun cannot overtake moon? That’s really uproarious … only sensible people would get the depth of this verse… -
3640 'The sun cannot eclipse the moon, nor can (the darkness of) night take precedence over (the light of) day. They all revolve fluidly.'
Translations of this verse have not been interpreted with the knowledge of science that we have discovered since the revelation of The Quran. Trying to use Classical Arabic to synthesise or hypothesise a novel 'truth' in a prosaic fashion is a recipe for going astray.
The entire verse is consistent with known scientific principles.
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The word root 'daraka' is translated as catching up or overtaking. If one understands this correctly then it is simply saying that the sun is not the moving element in the solar system. It does not pass between the moon and the earth in effect 'overtaking' it so this tells us that the moon is orbiting the earth and the sun can never eclipse the moon. There is a miraculous element in this in that it states the observable facts correctly since the moon can eclipse the sun but not vice versa.
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The word root 'sabaqa' also has a sense of outrunning but here it means precedence. This is telling us that there is no such thing as 'darkness' which is simply the absence of light. One side of the earth facing away from the sun is dark and the other facing the sun is light, neither can move over the other telling us that the position of the sun again is the fixed element. The 'edges' of the light and darkness are phenomena associated with illumination from one direction.
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The word root 'falaka' (note its similarity to 'falaqa' which is daybreak or dawn) has the sense of 'orbit' and I have translated as revolving as that is what each celestial structure is known to do. The earth revolves on its axis and around the sun. The moon revolves in a tidal lock facing the earth (so we see one face of it perpetually) and yet orbits around the earth. The sun revolves also and orbits the galactic centre which in turn is attached to its cluster and so on.
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The word root 'sabaha' indicates that the motion is all fluid and happens without undue perturbances and is effectively only perceptible to us by its effects on light and what we see rather than movement that we can feel.
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3640 'The sun cannot eclipse the moon, nor can (the darkness of) night take precedence over (the light of) day. They all revolve fluidly.'
Translations of this verse have not been interpreted with the knowledge of science that we have discovered since the revelation of The Quran. Trying to use Classical Arabic to synthesise or hypothesise a novel 'truth' in a prosaic fashion is a recipe for going astray.
The entire verse is consistent with known scientific principles.
Salam...
Thank you..
I have not seen anyone translating it as ECLIPSE.. i don't mind you translated it.. but my point is not in translation ... my point is how it befit to Universe and Solar system according to Science..Suppose if you are convinced that the verse says it is eclipse let me know kindly... According to science will Sun ever come in between Earth and Moon ... you may say .. yes that's what Quran says Sun cannot eclipse the Moon.. But is it worth saying? Even sun comes in between Earth and and Moon, do you think it can eclipse Moon while the size of the sun is 400 times bigger than moon according to science.. So the word Eclipse in my understanding doesn't befit.. But I am happy with all the translations traditionally translated ... But according to science it never befits...So my understanding of stationary earth still befits for myself within Quran.. Coz sun and moon floating in its orbit in the midst of Sky... and both sun and moon are placed in the midst of sky... not 93 million miles away from moon...
thank you brother -
Peace to you also,
My translation was in keeping with both the sense of the root words and our understanding of solar system mechanics through science (in which I am a believer in a heliocentric system with a round earth that manifests the signs mentioned in the verse).
Your position is problematic in that the 'facts' which you appear to accept such as the sun being 400 times bigger and being 93 million miles (ie. 400 times) further away than the moon are stated without qualification as to why you accept them or how you know them to be true?
Does the Quran mention that the sun is 400 times bigger or 400 times further away than the moon?
How do you know these things? Why do you accept them as true? Is it a case of pick and choose?
The sun being 400 times bigger than the moon or 400 times further away would not have been obvious to someone 1400 years ago. They could not measure the distances or have known that the sun could never ever come between the earth and the moon (they thought it could split in two and fall into someone's backyard!). Today we do know that it cannot, and it accords with The Quran as I have translated it here so again it is an example of 'out of place' scientific knowledge. So it is like other such facts which have later been discovered to be consistent with scientific knowledge, which is a manifestation of a miracle in its own right.
Salam...
Thank you..
I have not seen anyone translating it as ECLIPSE.. i don't mind you translated it.. but my point is not in translation ... my point is how it befit to Universe and Solar system according to Science..Suppose if you are convinced that the verse says it is eclipse let me know kindly... According to science will Sun ever come in between Earth and Moon ... you may say .. yes that's what Quran says Sun cannot eclipse the Moon.. But is it worth saying? Even sun comes in between Earth and and Moon, do you think it can eclipse Moon while the size of the sun is 400 times bigger than moon according to science.. So the word Eclipse in my understanding doesn't befit.. But I am happy with all the translations traditionally translated ... But according to science it never befits...So my understanding of stationary earth still befits for myself within Quran.. Coz sun and moon floating in its orbit in the midst of Sky... and both sun and moon are placed in the midst of sky... not 93 million miles away from moon...
thank you brother -
Peace to you also,
My translation was in keeping with both the sense of the root words and our understanding of solar system mechanics through science (in which I am a believer in a heliocentric system with a round earth that manifests the signs mentioned in the verse).
Your position is problematic in that the 'facts' which you appear to accept such as the sun being 400 times bigger and being 93 million miles (ie. 400 times) further away than the moon are stated without qualification as to why you accept them or how you know them to be true?
Does the Quran mention that the sun is 400 times bigger or 400 times further away than the moon?
How do you know these things? Why do you accept them as true? Is it a case of pick and choose?
The sun being 400 times bigger than the moon or 400 times further away would not have been obvious to someone 1400 years ago. They could not measure the distances or have known that the sun could never ever come between the earth and the moon (they thought it could split in two and fall into someone's backyard!). Today we do know that it cannot, and it accords with The Quran as I have translated it here so again it is an example of 'out of place' scientific knowledge. So it is like other such facts which have later been discovered to be consistent with scientific knowledge, which is a manifestation of a miracle in its own right.
peace again..
quite strange... I don't mind what you believe ... it is between you and your Lord.. thing is whether God accept or not or God created what you say or not...anyway dude.. If Sun is not 400 times bigger than Moon and not 93 million miles away from us or for that matter from Moon, HOW ACCORDING TO SCIENCE FULL SOLAR ECLIPSE DO OCCUR? either believe in science or believe in Quran fully... taking from both partially won't work out... don't feel bad for what i say... but that's what i get from your reply...
thank you.. God guide us.. -
Peace,
As do I not mind what you believe but that is not the point here.
The point is that one must have a logical reason as to why they believe the things they do. I am not disputing the 400 times the size and distance facts. I accept them as scientifically discovered facts and in agreement with all observations, just like I accept that I can repeat the experiment of Eratosthenes who calculated the circumference of the round earth based on the shadows cast by sunlight at solar noon at different points on the earth at equivalent times.
The epistemological basis for the knowledge that you believe in is not consistent based on what I understand of your understanding of a 'stationary earth' (which I think you believe is flat). Maybe you have not presented your view clearly enough. What I am pointing out is that the same source of knowledge for the fact that the sun is 400 times larger and 400 times further away than the moon, which is the reason the moon can eclipse the sun; is the same source of knowledge which confirms scientifically that the earth is round and orbits around the sun while spinning on its own axis.
A solar eclipse is thus a manifestation of these scientific truths because their occurrence can be calculated based on the heliocentric model of the solar system. Does your belief system have a means to predict or calculate such things?
peace again..
quite strange... I don't mind what you believe ... it is between you and your Lord.. thing is whether God accept or not or God created what you say or not...anyway dude.. If Sun is not 400 times bigger than Moon and not 93 million miles away from us or for that matter from Moon, HOW ACCORDING TO SCIENCE FULL SOLAR ECLIPSE DO OCCUR? either believe in science or believe in Quran fully... taking from both partially won't work out... don't feel bad for what i say... but that's what i get from your reply...
thank you.. God guide us.. -
Peace,
As do I not mind what you believe but that is not the point here.
The point is that one must have a logical reason as to why they believe the things they do. I am not disputing the 400 times the size and distance facts. I accept them as scientifically discovered facts and in agreement with all observations, just like I accept that I can repeat the experiment of Eratosthenes who calculated the circumference of the round earth based on the shadows cast by sunlight at solar noon at different points on the earth at equivalent times.
The epistemological basis for the knowledge that you believe in is not consistent based on what I understand of your understanding of a 'stationary earth' (which I think you believe is flat). Maybe you have not presented your view clearly enough. What I am pointing out is that the same source of knowledge for the fact that the sun is 400 times larger and 400 times further away than the moon, which is the reason the moon can eclipse the sun; is the same source of knowledge which confirms scientifically that the earth is round and orbits around the sun while spinning on its own axis.
A solar eclipse is thus a manifestation of these scientific truths because their occurrence can be calculated based on the heliocentric model of the solar system. Does your belief system have a means to predict or calculate such things?
peace...
it is okay dude... coz that's what you believe and you feel that what science says is not contrary to what quran states..
Yes i may not have the knowledge of what Scientist say about the earth and heaven or even for that matter as you say about eclipses, but the verses of Quran not support unfortunately, otherwise i would have accepted the heliocentric model while i was studying in college..that's why long before i opened a thread saying "width of heaven and width of earth, are they equal"...
Anyway keep researching ...
God bless you -
10 101 Say, "Observe what is in the heavens and earth." But of no avail will be signs or warners to a people who do not believe
2108 “…. . .. And whoever exchanges disbelief for belief has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.
The Heliocentric person and the one who opposes both observe what is in the Heavens and Earth… But what the former observes is what is taught for him and the later observes against to what was taught to him.. So clear disparity …. And the verse continues.. For whom even after observing the heavens and Earth it will be of no avail?… So SIGNS and warnings to a people who do not believe is fruitless and immaterial.. Now who is that who doesn’t believe? Is it Heliocentric group or opposition? God knows best…
Look at the other verse”2108.. Those who exchanges Disbelief with Belief… So… We disbelieve in what you believe and you disbelieve in what we believe.. so strayed from the soundness of the way..
Yes common for both parties… But we don’t say about the unseen as if seen and convinced, but Heliocentric believers believe what is never seen and accept as truth.. We only say it is not possible.. and we argue against it with logic… but they mock, coz science has accepted it.... thank you..
So.. one of the parties exchanged the disbelief with belief and the signs they observe in the heavens and earth is not real signs but assumptions.. One of the parties of two definitely a disbeliever in the real creation of God..
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Dear jkhan; peace be upon you.
The reason I raised the issue of calculation of eclipses is that roundness, orbiting, periodicity are things that we both experience and that we can thereby calculate by.
Verse 555
'The sun and the moon, calculation'Remember that this is in the context of Al-Rahman, The All Capable being The Teacher. We develop from language to calculation. We can through understanding how to calculate, now know something about how the concept of prophecy is able to be constructed in an eternal and universal way through numerical evaluation. By being able to label all the concepts that define our time and other points in time, and using the discovered formulas we can calculate past and future celestial events such as eclipses with great accuracy.
The stationary flat earth of experience is unable to move beyond its static state because it is a limited world view. Calculations in this world state are either not possible or not straightforward or elegant; and do not accord with visible or observable evidence of sphericity (such as the photobombing of astro-pictures by man made satellite streaks that reflect sunlight like the moon does), in a flat plane earth model.
Because of this prophecy of calculability and its importance in science for establishing truth we must understand that The God teaches all humanity. His favour extends to whomever He wills and He is All Capable. Not an atomic particle nor field escapes His awareness.
The manifestation in our era of copious numerical miracles that have been increasingly uncovered in Koran metrics is truly astonishing also in this respect. So think and contemplate that 555 shows that calculation of celestial periods and ratios like the Metonic cycle are prophesied as Signs in the universe that we can verify observationally and using instruments. The God is fully aware of all that we do.
The human is created after The God Teaches The Quran that is manifest to us as the shared world 'interface' that we experience. The human is then taught eloquence and explication through this experiential interface that The God has mercifully provided us with. Humanity first learns to articulate and then to calculate and recognise patterns in this interface. At the appointed time, the miracle of The Nineteen Sign is uncovered in a provably ancient text called The Koran and this leads to it being explained in ways that it has not been previously.
It is truly one of the Great Signs that humanity has been taught.