Verb taqsuroo in 4:101.
-
@ Wakas
I am not sure if you fully understood the article. Nevertheless I will quote the following from it
Layth makes an interesting point "Most times it is preceded by the word "Khar'a" (fall down), which adds to "prostration" to let us know that it is indeed physical prostration. If "prostration" was automatically understood as physical, there would be no need to add "Khar'a" along with it." He later quotes verse 12100 which describes how Joseph's vision/dream was fulfilled. That verse uses the words "fall" and "prostrate" together. But, Layth forgets that in the beginning of the chapter, Joseph's vision that describes the very event described in 12100 uses ONLY one word SaJeDeen, which means "they were prostrating."
So it is both phyiscal and mental.
-
@ Wakas
I am not sure if you fully understood the article. Nevertheless I will quote the following from it
Layth makes an interesting point "Most times it is preceded by the word "Khar'a" (fall down), which adds to "prostration" to let us know that it is indeed physical prostration. If "prostration" was automatically understood as physical, there would be no need to add "Khar'a" along with it." He later quotes verse 12100 which describes how Joseph's vision/dream was fulfilled. That verse uses the words "fall" and "prostrate" together. But, Layth forgets that in the beginning of the chapter, Joseph's vision that describes the very event described in 12100 uses ONLY one word SaJeDeen, which means "they were prostrating."
So it is both phyiscal and mental.
Dear Brother
I do not believe that it is Layth's statement.
Layth is an Arab.If he does not know that the verb used is "Kharra" not "khar'a" what can you expect out of him.
Regards -
@ Wakas
I am not sure if you fully understood the article.
So it is both phyiscal and mental.
Of course it is both physical and mental! Just like giving to charity is both physical and mental, just like writing is both physical and mental, just like lying is both physical and mental etc etc.
What I am addressing is the evidence FOR/AGAINST sjd meaning physical prostration. If you, or anyone, thinks it is physical prostration, then simply explain away the points I have written about. The only way out of it is to accept "fall sjd" is idiomatic, then all the evidence left is it can theoretically mean physical prostration in a few occurrences, that is it.... just like it can mean "to salute" etc like other Classical Arabic meanings of sjd.... in other words, this is not evidence.
-
Of course it is both physical and mental! Just like giving to charity is both physical and mental, just like writing is both physical and mental, just like lying is both physical and mental etc etc.
What I am addressing is the evidence FOR/AGAINST sjd meaning physical prostration. If you, or anyone, thinks it is physical prostration, then simply explain away the points I have written about. The only way out of it is to accept "fall sjd" is idiomatic, then all the evidence left is it can theoretically mean physical prostration in a few occurrences, that is it.... just like it can mean "to salute" etc like other Classical Arabic meanings of sjd.... in other words, this is not evidence.
I think that you still didnt read the quote clearly, so here it is again
Layth makes an interesting point "Most times it is preceded by the word "Khar'a" (fall down), which adds to "prostration" to let us know that it is indeed physical prostration. If "prostration" was automatically understood as physical, there would be no need to add "Khar'a" along with it." He later quotes verse 12100 which describes how Joseph's vision/dream was fulfilled. That verse uses the words "fall" and "prostrate" together. But, Layth forgets that in the beginning of the chapter, Joseph's vision that describes the very event described in 12100 uses ONLY one word SaJeDeen, which means "they were prostrating."
-
Peace Wakas.
Wakas There is no clear example of anyone doing this physically in AQ when hearing God's words. Hasan AQ says those particular people did it rather than anyone.
By those particular people I meant the people mentioned in 17107. They were endowed with innate knowledge. As a result, they were moved to such a great extent on hearing God's words that they prostrated to the chin, that is, with humility. It was a particular event taking place under particular circumstances.
You seem to assume that I imply certain things. Please do not assume. It is enough to cite the facts as I will try now.
Nerspi's question What were the people doing in 4102? Training? My answer NO! They were not training. They were Muslim soldiers exposed to the attack of their "open foes". No trainig takes place under the threat of armed attack.
In my post I likened the war front, where the Prophet and his friends were, to the stage where a play is being performed. During the intermissions between the stages of the play the actors and actresses may choose to drink coffee on the stage or even pray for better success but they never receive any training over there. Just like that, at the times when armed conflict ceases on the front for some reason the soldiers may eat their meals and perform their prayers but never receive training. I referred to a photo of the Turkish soldiers perfoming their prayer during the Battles of the Dardanelles, 1915, to examplify the case. http//fotogaleri.samanyoluhaber.com/galeri/615/2
The people in 4102 were performing 1 qm + 1 sjd of salaat. You say that sjd mentioned in a passage may be phisical or mental depending on the context, so the salaat consisiting of 1 qm + 1 sjd mentioned in 4102 is phisical.
Hasan Ak?ay
-
From mh?s article (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7428.0)
Now we shall move to another important verse with a form of the word SJD. This verse is 4102. Let us have a look at it.
?And if you are with them and you maintain the commitment for them (the reading session), then let a group from amongst them maintain with you and let them take their weapons; and when they have submitted then let them stand guard behind you; and let a group who has not yet committed come and commit with you, and let them be wary and take their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if there is harm to you from rain, or if you are ill, that you put down your weapons, but be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution?.( 4102)
mh changes God?s word from salaat to the reading session although they are completely different. Salaat is is timed, mawkootaa (4103), performed at the two ends (tarafeyn) of the day (11114) whereas reading sessions are held any time.
Plus, I wonder what he exactly means by the reading session.
Does he mean recitation of God?s words in order to remember Him? If he does, there is no difference between the two in terms of purpose believers perform salaat too so as to remember God (2014).
So what is the fuss for?
Or does he mean training and indocrination? If he does, you can never answer nerspi?s question reasonably what were those believers in 4102 doing? Training?
Let me repeat God?s truthThe believers in 4102 were exposed to the attack of their open foes. No training takes place under the threat of armed attack.
The war front, where the Prophet and his friends were, is like the stage where a play is being performed.
During the intermissions between the stages of the play the actors and actresses may choose to drink coffee on the stage or even pray for better success but they never receive any training over there.
Just like that, at the times when conflict ceases on the front, soldiers eat meals and perform prayers but never receive training. Khomenei tried to indocrinate his Iraqi prisoners far behind the front of the war. He was wise enough.
Please aknowledgde the fact that Peophet Mohammad was a genius. He was no less wise than Kohemenei; neither was he less wise than actors and actresses, who never hold training session on the stage during the performance of a play.
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Root q-S-r describes restraining. This is why a verbal noun qaSr and its plural quSoor can be used for fortifications, castles. As a verb it means "to be restrained", and it's intransitive; but form IV verb means "to cease" (or not to, since it's used with a negation laa). Verb form II generally means "to cause main verb", and since the main verb is intransitive verb form II is reflective also and it can be understood as "to refrain".
The question about 4101 is very important, since this usage of eS-Salaat is showing that this noun has nothing with any physical performance. The context is showing that there's nothing wrong if we restrain from eS-Salaat while travelling if we have fear of being attacked by kaafiroon; this shows that eS-Salaat with people is a connection, nearness, and so. If we travel through the land of kaafiroon and fear of them, there's nothing wrong if we restrain of/from getting connected with them.
