Women as sex objects ..
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Peace,
Kahlil Gibran, cool. Bob Marley is definately reggae, I have heard some of Erykah Badu, she has a unique talent and sounds good but I haven't heard much of her music. At the moment I am listening to Frank Sinatra.
This is my last week at college, I am currently waiting for replies from firms that I have sent CVs to.
Nural
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Peace Taj
I would like to say big Ma Sha Allah to Khalil! You are so wise.
I really don't know how to handle compliments, I appreciate your kind words is all I can respond with.
I have noticed that you yourself are a very heartfelt person with your choice of words, your intentions are very pure.
Your words about beauty and ugliness reminded me of a short story by Kahlil Gibran. A summary
Once upon a time Beauty and Ugliness went swimming. After some time a strong wind blew and high waves were terrifying the two. Ugliness got quickly out of the sea and in a hurry wore Beauty's clothes. When Beauty came out she, being too shy, couldn't go undressed so she took Ugliness? clothes. And since then people have been mistaking the two for each other!Nice pick on the authour, Kahlil Gibran's short story rings bells to loud and clear!
peace Lote
I understand what you are saying. But don't worry I am working on it. I am confident I will one day come to terms with my faults, defects and ugliness
Thats a great perspective to attain, perhaps calling your faults, defects and ugliness a 'snugglier/kinder' term may shorten the process and turn your stumbling blocks into stepping stones.
I can relate to that Khalil completely! I have been made to feel useless and worthless as I was growing up. But I have outgrown them all! and I don't say this out of pride or arrogance but understanding that we are all limited in many ways and we are also exceptional in many ways.
Once we understand our limitations we can work with them and eventually overcome them. Like lifting weights
Only through knowledge and understanding perhaps we can go beyond our limitation perhaps...
Yes, we are yoked by fear and knowledge shatters these illusionary bonds. Of course we must realise that there is more to knowledge than being correct-understanding.
I like the last lines but I still can't grasp what it really means!
Perhaps it is speaking of love for our self?
If beauty is eternity gazing at itself in a mirror and we are both eternity and the mirror then we are beautiful when we can look at our self without turning away.
Peace Nural
Badu is great, I would share some of her music with you but I only own her tapes, her debut CD is real mellow and jazzy and Sinatra, how is he?
peace,
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Did you know that Prophet Muhammad had up to 11 wives (or more than four if you go by Scripture Alone and numberless concubines)? You would have expected that man who "encountered" God would have turned himself into a monk! I wonder why he did not?
Piece be upon you my friend. Please forgive me for any mistake that I may make here after in this. I do not mean to offend.
In the above quote we are going back to stories. Why should we care what stories say about our prophets. Its good for history.
We are commanded not to seek any other source of law. The Quran is the only law since it is the only word of God. That is, if you believe in the hereafter. We guess and follow conjecture rather than following the Quran (Surah 6)
- That is so the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter will listen to it, and they will accept it, and they will take of it what they will.
- ?Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your. Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
- And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
- And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
When we watch the Bruce lee movie fist of fury we get enraged to see a board saying ?Dogs and Chinese not allowed?. Do you even dream that Islam would be worse than that? According to the books of Hadith, a woman is compared to a black dog or a monkey (this Hadith pre-dates Darwin but it refers to women only) Bukhari 8/102 and Hanbel 4/86. if a woman or a monkey crosses your prayers are not supposed to be accepted by god. This is pure male chauvinism. The Quran on the other hand honors women and lifts up their status contrary to what is contained in the Hadith. A woman is called bad luck in the haidth (Bukhari 76/53). Also, according to the collection of Muslim (Sahih Muslim), most of the people in hell were of the feminine gender! According to Bukhari, "Women are naturally, morally and religiously defective." Therefore, by the standard of the Quran, no Muslim should accept such prejudiced Hadith as issued from the lips of the prophet of God.
These are stories. they contradict the QUran. ONly the male ego has kept them alive for centuries. These are the reasons why we should not take advice from these stories.
Any way.
But we all admire beauty don't we Khalil and Tanveer? Beauty always makes us smile doesn't it? And we constantly seek beauty in our art and music and in our life. Plato said that contemplation of beauty leads to "ecstasy", ecstasy in the spiritual sense i.e. going beyond the object of admiration to the concept of Ideal Beauty.
Why did god include these verses in the Quran 24th Surah
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Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
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And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is apparent. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers that you may succeed.
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peace to all,
I think its not about how much skin you show. Its all in the mind. Either you show it or fully cover it, anyone can be still treated as sex object.
So Just as girls showing in the media can be sex object along with girls sacked up in vail also. The only difference is in objects appearence.
So my point is, Its all in our mind. If we can control it there, than it doesnt matter how much skin you show. Lets try to see things thru a natural glass..)
peace
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peace Shamsul
So true.
See, If there is no poverty who are you gonna help. If there is no bad then how will you define good. If there is no hell then why heaven.
Men do generally have a habit of judging women. Why judge others. Lets Judge ourselves. Besides the Quran does not tell you to cover yourself with a veil.All it tells you is to lengthen your garment. So it is in the eye of the beholder.
So my point is, Its all in our mind. If we can control it there, than it doesnt matter how much skin you show. Lets try to see things thru a natural glass..
So true.
I remembered a joke.height of stupidity = Looking through the key hole of a glass door.
Lets not get into the habit of doing that.
Peace
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Hello shohorab,
Piece be upon you my friend. Please forgive me for any mistake that I may make here after in this. I do not mean to offend.
In the above quote we are going back to stories. Why should we care what stories say about our prophets. Its good for history.Don't worry I know about those "Stories" that is why I said if you go by Quran alone, Muhammad did have more than four wives -)
Just one question - if you lower you gaze, how can you know beauty exists and how can you admire beauty?
-)Regards,
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Just one question - if you lower you gaze, how can you know beauty exists and how can you admire beauty?
can lower your gaze mean to be peaceful, respectful and appreciating to what you see..?? )
peace
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Just one question - if you lower you gaze, how can you know beauty exists and how can you admire beauty?
can lower your gaze mean to be peaceful, respectful and appreciating to what you see..??
peace
But I thought when you lower your gaze it means putting your head down and looking at the ground -) This way you can hardly admire beauty! But I understand you what you mean.... -)
Regards,
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Peace,
I think lowering the gaze is good advice, because then we don't flirt and it is a defence against temptation and also unrighteous behaviour, we might send out the wrong message to the women although no harm or disrespect is meant by staring.
This shows your interest and also might make the woman hit on u! Also modesty is important and a lot of trouble is caused by these types of things!
Nural
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Peace,
This shows your interest and also might make the woman hit on u! Also modesty is important and a lot of trouble is caused by these types of things!
Nural
what is So wrongful to fall for opposite sex ? I think we need to practice seeing a glass of water half full rather than half empty..)
peace
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Peace all
Ironically I believe we are all correct in certain ways. I believe Quran knows better thus it is telling us something good. See, immediately after telling men to lower their gaze it is telling women to do the same. It shows equality.
That does not meen you cant look at a woman. HOw do you marry someone??
I believe its about pride, lust etc that the Quran is talking here.
what is So wrongful to fall for opposite sex ? I think we need to practice seeing a glass of water half full rather than half empty..Yes
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Hello LT,
Don't worry I know about those "Stories" that is why I said if you go by Quran alone, Muhammad did have more than four wives
Can you please enlighten me and quote the verses of Al-Quran that prove your underlined statement above? And also why do you use the number 4 when mentioning Al-Quran, because in Al-Quran Allah allows a muslim only one wife (the only exception was to prophet Muhammad).
Ayat 43 is commonly mistranslated by the majority of the translations. The correct translation is as follows, which clearly shows that there is no permission for muslim to marry more than one.
(43) And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then (marry off) by one or what your right hand possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
For more details on this issue please see following link
http//www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html
337 The prophet is closer to the believers than themselves, and his wives are mothers to them. And God's decree to the believers and the emigrants is that before they help their relatives, they have taken care of their own families first. Such has been decreed in the Scripture.
3329 O prophet, say to your wives "If you are seeking this worldly life and its vanities, then come, I will make a provision for you and release you in an amicable manner."
3331 O wives of the prophet, if any of you commits evident lewdness, then the retribution will be doubled for her. This is easy for God to do.
3333 O wives of the prophet, you are not like any other women. If you are righteous, then do not speak too softly, lest those with disease in their hearts will move with desire; you shall speak in an honourable manner.
3354 And if you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier. This is purer for your hearts and their hearts. And it is not for you to harm God's messenger, nor that you should marry his wives after him. This is indeed a gross offence with God.
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
662 O you prophet, why do you prohibit what God has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? God is Forgiver, Merciful.
664 And when the prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to some of his wives, then one of them spread it, and God revealed it to him, he recognized part of it and denied part. So when he informed her, she said "Who informed you of this?" He said "I was informed by the Knowledgeable, the Expert."In all the above verses "wives" or "some of his wives" is used which does not mean more than four. The following ayat is telling the prophet which women have been made lawful for him to get married to if he wishes, and not the number of his wives
3351 O prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have already given their dowry, and the one who is committed to you by oath, as granted to you by God, and the daughters of your father's brothers, and the daughters of your father's sisters, and the daughters of your mother's brothers, and the daughters of your mother's sisters, of whom they have emigrated with you. Also, the believing woman who had decreed herself to the prophet, the prophet may marry her if he wishes, as a privilege given only to you and not to the believers. We have already decreed their rights in regard to their spouses and those who are still dependant. This is to spare you any hardship. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Now please tell me how you reached your conclusion that according to Al-Quran prophet Muhammad had more than four wives and quote me the verses from Al-Quran that show that prophet Muhammad had more than four wives.
Regards,
Tanveer
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Can you please enlighten me and quote the verses of Al-Quran that prove your underlined statement above? And also why do you use the number 4 when mentioning Al-Quran, because in Al-Quran Allah allows a muslim only one wife (the only exception was to prophet Muhammad).
Are you telling me Tanveer that Muhammad did not have more than one wife?
And why was Muhammad was allowed to marry more than one wife and not others?
Regards,
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Are you telling me Tanveer that Muhammad did not have more than one wife?
You have a habit of misquoting others and giving false information. PLEASE DO NOT MISQUOTE ME. I never said that Muhammad did not have more than one wife. I was asking you to show where in Al-Quran is the proof that Muhammad had more than FOUR wives as per your statement.
Lote Tree wrote
Don't worry I know about those "Stories" that is why I said if you go by Quran alone, Muhammad did have more than FOUR wivestanveermd wrote
Can you please enlighten me and quote the verses of Al-Quran that prove your underlined statement above? And also why do you use the number 4 when mentioning Al-Quran, because in Al-Quran Allah allows a muslim only one wife (the only exception was to prophet Muhammad).I produced many many ayat showing that Muhammad had "wives". In case you don't know, "wives" is the plural of "wife" in the English language meaning more than one wife.
As for your question
And why was Muhammad was allowed to marry more than one wife and not others?
Allah gives the answer
3338 So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
So clearly Allah allowed Muhammad to marry more than one wife to establish examples of different situations in marriages and clarify what is lawful in those situations/scenarios. Muhammad was one person and there are many different situations and scenarios that can arise in marriages. He was allowed to marry more than one to set up an example of what is lawful in many different situations and scenarios.
3322 Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
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Salaams tanveer,
i need some info on your articl regarding polygamy please.please counter the following
Reasons why 43 cannot be marry or marry off orphans.
Orphans may be children so marry off children. How is this possible?
The condition to test them if they are of marriageable age comes in ayah 46 , i.e. 3 ayate after your telling to marry them off, How come? Should be the other way around.
Either Marry off the women or what your Right hands posseses, Why marry off what you posses? So it isn?t marry off women neither.
A question regarding the interpretation that supports "Marrying off".
If it?s marrying off, then why do you think there is a restriction until "4" at all? If marrying off, why not marry off 1000 women at the same time? Why only until 4?Sura 4.
Who is the audience?
Clearly the first verse answers this question O Mankind! "Ya ayyuha alnnasu", the audience is mankind.
"Marry the women widows/divorcees/singles who have consented with you two?s, three?s and four?s!" But if you fear that you will be unfair then marry one or what your right hand possessed, this is better than getting into hardship.As in this case entire mankind are spoken to then its perfect structure to say to the entire mankind
Marry what seems good to you of women two?s, three?s or four?s ?????.
Please note it?s not one person Allah has spoken to here as a lot of people tend to think or configure as.
Thanks.
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So clearly Allah allowed Muhammad to marry more than one wife to establish examples of different situations in marriages and clarify what is lawful in those situations/scenarios. Muhammad was one person and there are many different situations and scenarios that can arise in marriages. He was allowed to marry more than one to set up an example of what is lawful in many different situations and scenarios.
?..erm...ok Tanveer enough said... I bow out to you...
Regards,
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Peace,
I think the idea here is the man had 11 wives in his lifetime but no more than 4 at anyone time. Polygamy is a mission! Wouldn't work in reality or maybe just today, thats just for me personally. I like the idea of couples and pairs. Adam and eve not adam and eve and another woman!
Anyway so what if he had more wives? whats the big deal? he was a lucky man and still managed to bring positive change and establish a progressive way in the world.
Nural
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Hello Nural,
Anyway so what if he had more wives? whats the big deal?
No Big Deal Nural, but I wish I had that job! -)
I think I would have enjoyed it (and many would too!!!! )So clearly Allah allowed Muhammad to marry more than one wife to establish examples of different situations in marriages and clarify what is lawful in those situations/scenarios. Muhammad was one person and there are many different situations and scenarios that can arise in marriages. He was allowed to marry more than one to set up an example of what is lawful in many different situations and scenarios.
Regards,
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Peace,
Back then, Muhammad may had many wives, perhaps before the revelation, GOD knows. But the revelation sets the standards as per ones' given situation. Nevertheless, the emphasis the Quran sets out is of one, not many. Today, as I personally witness, its cumbersome to handle one wife, talk about 2 or more. The reasons are genuine and many, solutions are seldom.
Divorces, separations, philanderes/casanovas (maniacs), rapes and gay relationships/marriages are dramatically at high-rise, specially in the western countries, mainly USA. Such diseases are carried over to other parts of the world in the name of "freedom" or "liberty" or perhaps "sexual poison". What an "evolution"??? Swords of the past, bombs of the present and Nuclear Automated Techonology of the near future.