The reading of the the verse 2:187 (Siyam / fasting)
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peace, years are solar
الحول the annum (cycle)
سنه year (duration/age)
عام year (specific)
سنىن years (sequence)296 ىود loved احدهم anyone them لو in case ىعمر granted life الف thousand سنه year (duration)
2240 وصىه behest لازوجهم for spouses theirs متعا wherewithal of الى towards الحول the annum1247 قال said تزرعون thou planting سبع seven سنىن years (sequence 1,2,3...,7 not 7 duration)
1249 ثم furthermore ىاتى bringeth من from بعد after ذلك such عام year (specific)3114 فى in (within <= less than or equal) عامىن year two
4615 وحمله and pregnancy his وفصاله and separation (suckle) his ثلثون thirty شهرا shahrāan/lunar cycle ofsolving inequality equations https//www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/inequality-solving.html
weaning inversely proportional to pregnancy; late babies require less, premature more
pregnancy 6 lunar cycles require 24 {30 – 6} weaning
pregnancy 7 lunar cycles require 23 {30 – 7} weaning
pregnancy 8 lunar cycles require 22 {30 – 8} weaning
pregnancy 9 lunar cycles require 21 {30 – 9} weaning
pregnancy 10 lunar cycles require 20 {30 – 10} weaningsee context word usage https//sunnah.com/urn/505990
Yahya related to me from Malik from Yahya ibn Said that Zurayq ibn Hayyan, who was in charge of Egypt in the time of al-Walid, Sulayman, and Umar ibn Abd al-'Aziz, mentioned that Umar ibn Abd al- Aziz had written to him saying, "Assess the muslims that you come across and take from what is apparent of their wealth and whatever merchandise is in their charge, one dinar for every forty dinars, and the same proportion from what is less than that down to twenty dinars, and if the amount falls short of that by one third of a dinar then leave it and do not take anything from it. As for the people of the Book that you come across, take from the merchandise in their charge one dinar for every twenty dinars, and the same proportion from what is less than that down to ten dinars, and if the amount falls short by one third of a dinar leave it and do not take anything from it. Give them a receipt for what you have taken from them until the same time next year (الْحَوْلِ)."
Malik said, "The position among us (in Madina) concerning goods which are being managed for trading purposes is that if a man pays zakat on his wealth, and then buys goods with it, whether cloth, slaves or something similar, and then sells them before a year (الْحَوْلُ) has elapsed over them, he does not pay zakat on that wealth until a year (الْحَوْلُ) elapses over it from the day he paid zakat on it. He does not have to pay zakat on any of the goods if he does not sell them for some years (سِنِينَ), and even if he keeps them for a very long time he still only has to pay zakat on them once when he sells them."
Malik said, "The position among us concerning a man who uses gold or silver to buy wheat, dates, or whatever, for trading purposes and keeps it until a year (الْحَوْلُ) has elapsed over it and then sells it, is that he only has to pay zakat on it if and when he sells it, if the price reaches a zakatable amount. This is therefore not the same as the harvest crops that a man reaps from his land, or the dates that he harvests from his palms."
Malik said, "A man who has wealth which he invests in trade, but which does not realise a zakatable profit for him, fixes a month (شَهْرًا) in the year (السَّنَةِ) when he takes stock of what goods he has for trading, and counts the gold and silver that he has in ready money, and if all of it comes to a zakatable amount he pays zakat on it."
Malik said, "The position is the same for muslims who trade and muslims who do not. They only have to pay zakat once in any one year (فِي كُلِّ عَامٍ), whether they trade in that year or not."
حَدَّثَنِي عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ يَحْيَى بْنِ سَعِيدٍ، عَنْ زُرَيْقِ بْنِ حَيَّانَ، - وَكَانَ زُرَيْقٌ عَلَى جَوَازِ مِصْرَ فِي زَمَانِ الْوَلِيدِ وَسُلَيْمَانَ وَعُمَرَ بْنِ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ - فَذَكَرَ أَنَّ عُمَرَ بْنَ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ كَتَبَ إِلَيْهِ أَنِ انْظُرْ مَنْ مَرَّ بِكَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ فَخُذْ مِمَّا ظَهَرَ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ مِمَّا يُدِيرُونَ مِنَ التِّجَارَاتِ مِنْ كُلِّ أَرْبَعِينَ دِينَارًا دِينَارًا فَمَا نَقَصَ فَبِحِسَابِ ذَلِكَ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ عِشْرِينَ دِينَارًا فَإِنْ نَقَصَتْ ثُلُثَ دِينَارٍ فَدَعْهَا وَلاَ تَأْخُذْ مِنْهَا شَيْئًا وَمَنْ مَرَّ بِكَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الذِّمَّةِ فَخُذْ مِمَّا يُدِيرُونَ مِنَ التِّجَارَاتِ مِنْ كُلِّ عِشْرِينَ دِينَارًا دِينَارًا فَمَا نَقَصَ فَبِحِسَابِ ذَلِكَ حَتَّى يَبْلُغَ عَشَرَةَ دَنَانِيرَ فَإِنْ نَقَصَتْ ثُلُثَ دِينَارٍ فَدَعْهَا وَلاَ تَأْخُذْ مِنْهَا شَيْئًا وَاكْتُبْ لَهُمْ بِمَا تَأْخُذُ مِنْهُمْ كِتَابًا إِلَى مِثْلِهِ مِنَ الْحَوْلِ . قَالَ مَالِكٌ الأَمْرُ عِنْدَنَا فِيمَا يُدَارُ مِنَ الْعُرُوضِ لِلتِّجَارَاتِ أَنَّ الرَّجُلَ إِذَا صَدَّقَ مَالَهُ ثُمَّ اشْتَرَى بِهِ عَرْضًا بَزًّا أَوْ رَقِيقًا أَوْ مَا أَشْبَهَ ذَلِكَ ثُمَّ بَاعَهُ قَبْلَ أَنْ يَحُولَ عَلَيْهِ الْحَوْلُ فَإِنَّهُ لاَ يُؤَدِّي مِنْ ذَلِكَ الْمَالِ زَكَاةً حَتَّى يَحُولَ عَلَيْهِ الْحَوْلُ مِنْ يَوْمَ صَدَّقَهُ وَأَنَّهُ إِنْ لَمْ يَبِعْ ذَلِكَ الْعَرْضَ سِنِينَ لَمْ يَجِبْ عَلَيْهِ فِي شَىْءٍ مِنْ ذَلِكَ الْعَرْضِ زَكَاةٌ وَإِنْ طَالَ زَمَانُهُ فَإِذَا بَاعَهُ فَلَيْسَ فِيهِ إِلاَّ زَكَاةٌ وَاحِدَةٌ . قَالَ مَالِكٌ الأَمْرُ عِنْدَنَا فِي الرَّجُلِ يَشْتَرِي بِالذَّهَبِ أَوِ الْوَرِقِ حِنْطَةً أَوْ تَمْرًا أَوْ غَيْرَهُمَا لِلتِّجَارَةِ ثُمَّ يُمْسِكُهَا حَتَّى يَحُولَ عَلَيْهَا الْحَوْلُ ثُمَّ يَبِيعُهَا أَنَّ عَلَيْهِ فِيهَا الزَّكَاةَ حِينَ يَبِيعُهَا إِذَا بَلَغَ ثَمَنُهَا مَا تَجِبُ فِيهِ الزَّكَاةُ وَلَيْسَ ذَلِكَ مِثْلَ الْحَصَادِ يَحْصُدُهُ الرَّجُلُ مِنْ أَرْضِهِ وَلاَ مِثْلَ الْجِدَادِ . قَالَ مَالِكٌ وَمَا كَانَ مِنْ مَالٍ عِنْدَ رَجُلٍ يُدِيرُهُ لِلتِّجَارَةِ وَلاَ يَنِضُّ لِصَاحِبِهِ مِنْهُ شَىْءٌ تَجِبُ عَلَيْهِ فِيهِ الزَّكَاةُ فَإِنَّهُ يَجْعَلُ لَهُ شَهْرًا مِنَ السَّنَةِ يُقَوِّمُ فِيهِ مَا كَانَ عِنْدَهُ مِنْ عَرْضٍ لِلتِّجَارَةِ وَيُحْصِي فِيهِ مَا كَانَ عِنْدَهُ مِنْ نَقْدٍ أَوْ عَيْنٍ فَإِذَا بَلَغَ ذَلِكَ كُلُّهُ مَا تَجِبُ فِيهِ الزَّكَاةُ فَإِنَّهُ يُزَكِّيهِ . وَقَالَ مَالِكٌ وَمَنْ تَجَرَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ وَمَنْ لَمْ يَتْجُرْ سَوَاءٌ لَيْسَ عَلَيْهِمْ إِلاَّ صَدَقَةٌ وَاحِدَةٌ فِي كُلِّ عَامٍ تَجَرُوا فِيهِ أَوْ لَمْ يَتْجُرُوا .
USC-MSA web (English) reference Book 17, Hadith 20
Arabic reference Book 17, Hadith 599Salam...
Thank you brother..Well... You have not given any concrete evidence to claim that YEARS ARE SOLAR... just your wording... It won't work out in that manner.. So to substantiate it you are just merely giving the difference or rather meaning of Aam, Sana etc.. on top of that bringing considerable amount of Hadiths to equalise Quranic meNing of words .. What logic is this? So is that what you prove that Years are solar.. In my understanding that's sheer baseless and nonsensical...
Yes.. We all know day and night deduce a Day in general.. So we know tine is moving.. Sun plays the role to bring day and night which is literally a day... That no one can deny... But we should not neglect the fact that God has created the Moon as well.. And He didn't let the Moon full moon throughout the year but He assigned for it phases and it is typically the calendar for anyone. Yes.. I am aware God is precise in His verses..
When you look at verse 105 it teaches us that Moon has a function other than its many other function it has. It indicates or makes us know the count of Years.. Well that's what verse 1712 also says.. So is that a contradiction? No..
It really amazes that both gives same counting.. That is to say one typical calendar .. 30 days a month and 360 days a year..If we don't take it thus, then God's statement that "A day with God is like thousand years of what we count" is bit bizzare... So it will end up as which one..is it 354/5 or 360 or 365/6...
Literally in 1000 years there is roughly 31 years difference if taken as 354 days calendar.. So not thousand but 1031 .. So what exactly God meant by what we count... So if God said 1000 years it is 1000 only.. No less no more.. Right?So Moon is the one assigned naturally to count month and thus Years.. 30X12 =360.. This is real counting.. And that was what ancient people practiced widely for ages so did Nuh to many a prophets... Yes Egyptians changed it to 365 days for a fancy reason of Nut.. Then Greeks followed immediately ... I don't mind.. Let it be..
That's perfect within Quran..
On top of that... Word AAM and SANA... not gonna decide solar or lunar... That's so weird..
Let me give my understanding of both AAM and SANA within quran ...
As far as I researched... AAM = YEAR but from the beginning.. That is to say like a calendar for example Jan to Dec.. Or in arabic Muharram to Haj...
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On the other hand SANA = YEAR but any point of time.. That is to say March 2022 to Feb 2023 complete year but any given time... If you read all verses if you are good enough you will perceive it in sha Allah...
But one would then question what about the verse in which Nuh was mentioned in which 1000 Sana and 50 AAM is mentioned... These kind of difficult verses either we leave it as Ghaib or those who can reflect can reflect with context and scenario.. As far as I understand Nuh lived 1000 years / SANA... But He lived 50 AAM after great deluge.. Coz 50 AAM was beginning of New world new counting from all over.. So instead of Sana God placed AAM rightly.. But thousand years... Further simply SANA is like for example English alphabet H to G.. But AAM is A - Z...Anyways this not what I wanted to explain but what I wanted to explain is that Years counted based on phases of Moon while day and night makes a complete Day... That's Quran..
Note if you can understand Quran meaning through hadith then that would be the worst understanding ever one could get... Do it if you are satisfied... Hadiths are formed after Quran.. Dictionaries are formed with amalgamation of old and new meaning of words . .. But Quran is unique and reach for guidance from Allah. . That's my way.. If anyone happy to look for hadiths to get the meaning of particular verse if Quran then do it . Let's hope you get guided...
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peace,
Quran to know # years includes sun
see all usages each word for year/shadiths have many words for year/s
it’s historical evidence of word usagelunar does not work mathematically
full-moon, math doesn’t work eitherstudy carefully each word individually
otherwise thread drifts to many topicsQuran is hadith see 12111 oral and written
Surah Yousuf 12101-111 Qari Saeed Noorhttps//youtu.be/9EQeOzKqiIE
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peace,
Quran to know # years includes sun
see all usages each word for year/shadiths have many words for year/s
it’s historical evidence of word usagelunar does not work mathematically
full-moon, math doesn’t work eitherstudy carefully each word individually
otherwise thread drifts to many topicsQuran is hadith see 12111 oral and written
Surah Yousuf 12101-111 Qari Saeed Noorhttps//youtu.be/9EQeOzKqiIE
Peace...
Just bcoz you say it doesn't work means that it is true.. Just speak with logic and within Quran.. Just placing Arabic Quran KNE side your translation on the other won't become things clear... Ensure to make sense by what you write... I mean it...
Hadith have many words for years you said... So let it be... Did I say No...? Concentrate on Quran... So did you say according to hadith that YEAR IS SOLAR... perhaps you are ..
Meanwhile your statemnt Quran is Hadith... Well Hadith is NARATION... so every NARATION has an author or for that matter for every statement there is an author... Author of Quran is Allah.. That is to say narrated by God.. So it is Hadith from Allah... It is not any fabricated Hadith like what you have brought to compare the verses of God with them so that we can get meaning of God's verses throught hadiths of people... As if God doesn't know language of Arabic so you reach the Hadith references to get what God has said in His book.. That's my perception is sheer shame...
May God guide those intention is pure... Don't just say YEAR IS SOLAR as if you have evidence from Quran... If you have I won't drag you this far... Anyway thank you... Reflect honestly if you love the life of hereafter...
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peace,
already posted examples here’s another, if they put you to sleep on a remote island as companions the cave or Robinson Crusoe — wakeup strandedhow do you keep track of time or years?
which full-moon is Ramadan — how so?3114 two solar or lunar years?
4615 forty, solar or lunar years?
4615 thirty full-moons/months?3114
وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his فى in (<= ) عامىن year two4615
وحمله and carry/pregnancy his وفصله and separation/breastfeeding his ثلثون thirty شهرا lunar cycle of حتى until اذا when of بلغ reach اشده vigor his وبلغ and reach اربعىن forty سنه yearlikewise, try and do breastfeeding calculations?
these made cutoff to survive 21*7 = 147 daysJames Elgin Gill born Ottawa, Ontario, May 20, 1987, 21 weeks gestation
Curtis Means born on July 5, 2020, 21 weeks and 1 day gestation at birth
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peace,
already posted examples here’s another, if they put you to sleep on a remote island as companions the cave or Robinson Crusoe — wakeup strandedhow do you keep track of time or years?
which full-moon is Ramadan — how so?3114 two solar or lunar years?
4615 forty, solar or lunar years?
4615 thirty full-moons/months?3114
وفصله and separation (breastfeeding) his فى in (<= ) عامىن year two4615
وحمله and carry/pregnancy his وفصله and separation/breastfeeding his ثلثون thirty شهرا lunar cycle of حتى until اذا when of بلغ reach اشده vigor his وبلغ and reach اربعىن forty سنه yearlikewise, try and do breastfeeding calculations?
these made cutoff to survive 21*7 = 147 daysJames Elgin Gill born Ottawa, Ontario, May 20, 1987, 21 weeks gestation
Curtis Means born on July 5, 2020, 21 weeks and 1 day gestation at birth
Just read what I have written if you have issues in finding answers to your concern above... Just coz you don't have answers doesn't mean all dong have... Problem is not willing to accept truth or truth doesn't seem truth to you...
I am not gonna repeat.. That's waste of everything....Have a good journey with Hadith and find answers to your problems...
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Just read what I have written if you have issues in finding answers to your concern above... Just coz you don't have answers doesn't mean all dong have... Problem is not willing to accept truth or truth doesn't seem truth to you...
I am not gonna repeat.. That's waste of everything....Have a good journey with Hadith and find answers to your problems...
hadith can provide insights into meanings of Arabic words help understand nuances and subtleties across contexts and gave examples of calculations and timings that need the sun, etc.
Quran for instance, "sana (سَنَةً)" known duration, "aam (عَامًا)" specific year, "sinin (سِنِينَ)" plural sequence or to a variable of time.
pertaining to topic and to summarize
Sawm (صَوْم)
”Fasting is a shield with which a servant protects himself from the Fire." (Narrated by Ahmad)Siyam (صِيَام)
”Allah said 'All the deeds of Adam's sons (people) are for them, except fasting which is for Me, and I will give the reward for it.'" (Narrated by Bukhari)Saum (صَوْمًا)
”The Prophet (peace be upon him) said 'Fasting is a shield, so when one of you is fasting, he should not engage in sexual intercourse or behave foolishly. If someone insults him or fights him, he should say 'I am fasting.'” Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim)example words used together include month
“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said 'The most beloved deeds to Allah are those that are consistent even if they are small. Siyam on Mondays and Thursdays and fasting (saum) three days of every month are considered consistent deeds.'" (Narrated by Tirmidhi)
Arabic "قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَحَبُّ الأَعْمَالِ إِلَى اللهِ تَعَالَى الدَّائِمُونَ وَإِنْ قَلُّوا، فَصِيَامُ يَوْمَ الاِثْنَيْنِ وَالْخَمِيسِ، وَصِيَامُ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ مِنْ كُلِّ شَهْرٍ دَائِمٌ."
You don’t have to believe in hadith (not the point) rather study the words being used therein, same with inscriptions or receipts for sheep etc.
https//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558
peace!
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hadith can provide insights into meanings of Arabic words help understand nuances and subtleties across contexts and gave examples of calculations and timings that need the sun, etc.
Quran for instance, "sana (سَنَةً)" known duration, "aam (عَامًا)" specific year, "sinin (سِنِينَ)" plural sequence or to a variable of time.
pertaining to topic and to summarize
Sawm (صَوْم)
”Fasting is a shield with which a servant protects himself from the Fire." (Narrated by Ahmad)Siyam (صِيَام)
”Allah said 'All the deeds of Adam's sons (people) are for them, except fasting which is for Me, and I will give the reward for it.'" (Narrated by Bukhari)Saum (صَوْمًا)
”The Prophet (peace be upon him) said 'Fasting is a shield, so when one of you is fasting, he should not engage in sexual intercourse or behave foolishly. If someone insults him or fights him, he should say 'I am fasting.'” Narrated by Bukhari and Muslim)example words used together include month
“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said 'The most beloved deeds to Allah are those that are consistent even if they are small. Siyam on Mondays and Thursdays and fasting (saum) three days of every month are considered consistent deeds.'" (Narrated by Tirmidhi)
Arabic "قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم أَحَبُّ الأَعْمَالِ إِلَى اللهِ تَعَالَى الدَّائِمُونَ وَإِنْ قَلُّوا، فَصِيَامُ يَوْمَ الاِثْنَيْنِ وَالْخَمِيسِ، وَصِيَامُ ثَلَاثَةِ أَيَّامٍ مِنْ كُلِّ شَهْرٍ دَائِمٌ."
You don’t have to believe in hadith (not the point) rather study the words being used therein, same with inscriptions or receipts for sheep etc.
https//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558
peace!
Salam again...
Anyway thank you.... So you got the proof that Year is Solar from Quran from the help of word usage in human hadith... Be content with it...
As you said.. You don't need to believe in Hadith but but study for word usage... So funny brother... So you didn't understand Quran so you got the help of hadith so you get what is written in Quran... Yes.. You don't follow by doing so hadith ... But you literally do... You don't realise what you do... Word usage of a human invented book is human understanding of words... But word usage of God's book is real meaning of words .. No alteration of meaning in it with time... For example word ummi if you read all the relevant hadith you will only get human infusion of the word but God has meant different in Quran... Or else.. Word ZAKATH... Even how much you try hadith would say ZAKATH is charity... I know they know the meaning of Zakath as well Purity but in their hadith they won't say so... Or else Sala thatveouod say Prayer.. And they knew Salah has other meaning but they won't use in line with Quran verse as thus... There was no hadith before QURAN was revealed... Or else bring Hadiths that was written before QURAN was revealed and the hadiths that are normal like stories or events or history so in which nothing of what is written in Quran is mentioned.. But the hadith that you bring is all relevant Quran verses and based on that hadiths are invented. So literally that is inevtion out of Quran their own understanding and their exaggeration... So don't get trapped to those understanding while your understanding could be different if God guided you while most probably they those who wrote the hadith not guided so they meant words in that manner... Got me?
So... Use hadith that was before QURAN for language usage which is not at relevant to Quran.. So it is like Dictionary.... Dictionary has many a meaning for a word.. But hadith has only meaning that too inevtion through Quran...
Make it or break it... I can't help with your path. But I am blessed to choose right path in right way... If you find Hadith written based on a particular Quran verse is helpful to you to grasp the same Quran verse then there is something lacking in you and the writer of hadith is more knowledgeable... Be content... Thank you
Note every hadith is targeted with a particular quran verse and they spread in vast level.. No hadith is away from Quran... But in fact away from Quran but root they have picked is from Quran to make fancy statements hadith... At least you Be intelligent if they were fool
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Obviously your reading comprehension is atrocious as your writing.
Where did write that the year is solar is due to hadith not in Quran? -
Obviously your reading comprehension is atrocious as your writing.
Where did write that the year is solar is due to hadith not in Quran?Read what I wrote or just be satisfied with what your mind preoccupied...
Thank you...
Well let me open a new topic... Understanding quran through Hadith
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Fasting, pilgrimage and other rituals are all based on seasonal factors, this is how it was, but as with technology we are loosing meaning to those, and everything become rituals without any meanings, do people go pilgrimage on some rainy or snowy season or periods of hindrances, its not possible, now this age we see everyone as one community, but hundreds or years ago, people has customs and rituals based on the local traditions and they followed it for their comforts and it continues even now, our pilgrimage and fasting is also one such, if we see benefits we can follow all such traditions, or feel if its unreasonable or superstition just, ignore and move on.
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Peace,
After reading the articles of this site in French that I found interesting https//nawaat.org/portail/author/dukhani/
I wonder about the definition of siyam and have severl questions about the verse 2187
God explains what is allowed during the night and what we should not do during our spiritual retreat in almasajid.
Is the instructions “until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn", concerns both “to approach your women sexually » and eat and drink ?
Is this part of the verse « God knew that you used to betray your souls » concerns both “to approach your women sexually » and eat and drink ?
During the spiritual retreat in almasajid, why god did not specify both do not approach them (your women sexually) and don’t eat and drink ?
2187 It has been made permissible for you during the night of siyam / fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knew that you used to betray your souls, so He has redeemed you, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete alssiyama / the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people that they may be righteous.
The spiritual retreat during siyam serves to receive divine guidance as explained in the following verse “and magnify God for what He has guided you to »
2185 Shahr ramadhan, in which the Qur'an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have witnessed alshshahra shall yasumhu / fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful.
I am convinced of the interest of fasting for health. I do not think that fasting is the purpose of siyam
Spiritual retreat for a fixed number of days is crucial to receive guidance, to connect to God.Thank you for your debate on this topic
I find a great evidence in 2196 to substantiate that 2187 .. Yes..if anyone is of the opinion that 2187 is not talking about sexual relations by word Rafathza then I am not gonna agree with him until he brings glaring evidence.. Further word Bushirahunna in verse 2187 is very much connected with Rafathza but bashiruhunna is REJOICE with Them... Yes I have seen some Quran alone scholars giving their understanding that here nothing to do with sex... but I don't blame them at all.. Thats what they understood within Quran.. God forgives the errirs of believers not disbelivers..
Why I say 2196 has substantiates my claim is. In it states about Siyam.. In fact Siyam is Abstinence / Self discipline applying limits if Allah.. So.. Here in 2196 states to practice self discipline during haj 3 days.. Note well already we know there is no Sex in Haj (confirms 2197).. So during haj 3 days of abstinence /self decipline.. But one more condition is there... Seven days after reaching home basically.. But this for whose family (literally take wife) is not in AMAH (in the state of acknowledging The sanctioned).. It means his wife is not with him in for Haj in AL masjid AL haram (AMAH) .. So 7 days of abstinence after going home.. So if his wife is in Haj in AMAH then what could be the rule?. 10 continuous days of abstinence /self discipline during Haj.. Yes.. So.. One would wonder why two different rules for whose wife is not in Haj with him and other rule for his wife is with him.. Yes.. Reason is one of the stipulations of Haj is No Sex throughout... But for Siyam only during day time.. Night allowed.. But here 2196 is about haj.. So.. This person unfortunatly stuck and fallen into abstinence penalties coz of his own errors.. But continuously 10 days of self discipline during haj won't make sense coz his wife not with him.. So God wants to test him with when he returns home with family whether he obliges the rest of 7 days (night and day since haj conditions) in self discipline /abstinence..
So.. 2187 is in fact sex by word Rafathza..
Note AMAH is my understanding not necessary to take as yours... AMAH for me is (In the state of acknowledgement /Submission for the Sanctioned) and AMAH is temporary it only applies while Haj is taking place.. other times sanctioned is lifted.. AMAH could indirectly become a place since the Haj is taking place with the state of acknowledgement the sanctioned IN A PLACE.. but place itself is not AMAH.. if I put a parable. It is like Olympics.. Olympics =AMAH.. when it happens in a particular destination it becomes literally Olympic village.. But that place itself not Olympic when it is not happening.. Importance instituted to the place coz of Olympics not coz of place.. Like we say we are going to Olympics... Like you can say we going to AMAH..
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For 2196 I recommend the following article, it is simple yet testing
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlGood article... Everyone should read ..
But one thing you didn't mention and question there unless I missed.. In 2196 God says if you are Mareed(translated as sick/ill) then Siyam.. But in 2185 if you are Mareed/sick siyam on other days.. So how can God ask a sick person in Haj to Siyam and in 2185 sick person to skip Siyam... So one should definitely research it.. So it is obvious among them they are facing Mareed(something unpleasant negative not bodily illness ) and annoyance from Leaders(Ra'as) ..so God says recompense of Siyam/abstinwncw/self discipline/abstain (not days mentioned) just be disciplined perhaps..
If taken conventional fasting /Siyam, If sick person can fast in 2196 why in 2185 God says other days.. So words of Quran should carefully applied according to context with synonyms...
Any comments.?
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For 2196 I recommend the following article, it is simple yet testing
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.htmlMy understanding / Interpretation of 2196 within Quran is...
"And/so fulfill the formal debate / discussion /familiarisation of monotheism (Haj) and its (Haj's) Preparation / Maintenance / support service (Umra) for God. So if you(plural) restrained yourself / committed yourself (for haj) then whatever available with ease of the gifts of animals (Alhady) and don't let relax your team leaders until reaches the gifts of animals (Alhady) its lawful place. (mahillahu. * ie Kaaba, restricted house to keep gifted animals before slaughtering) . So then whoever became among you sickening / dismay (mareed) and he is (in him) irritation / displeasure of his team leader so then recompense (fidya) of self discipline / rehabilitation / abstinence (Siyam) OR assurance(a word) OR state of cleanliness, so then when you (whole group) are assured (aminthum) and then whosoever took benefit (thamaththa) of maintenance / support service (umra) towards Haj(debate of monotheism) so whatever available with/ obtained ease of gift animal. But whosoever not find, so Siyam (complete self discipline 2185) for three days during the course of Haj and seven when you return. This is ten in full. That for whose family not involved in the state of Acknowledgement of the Sanctioned (AMAH). And be loyal (thaqwa) to God, and know that God is severe in retaliation.
Note.. Any objections / comments within Quran is so welcome to reflect. This is my up to date comprehension of this particular verse and through this verse one can most probably perceive rest of haj versea and understand what haj is..
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But one thing you didn't mention and question there unless I missed.. In 2196 God says if you are Mareed(translated as sick/ill) then Siyam.. But in 2185 if you are Mareed/sick siyam on other days.. So how can God ask a sick person in Haj to Siyam and in 2185 sick person to skip Siyam... So one should definitely research it.. So it is obvious among them they are facing Mareed(something unpleasant negative not bodily illness ) and annoyance from Leaders(Ra'as) ..so God says recompense of Siyam/abstinwncw/self discipline/abstain (not days mentioned) just be disciplined perhaps..
If taken conventional fasting /Siyam, If sick person can fast in 2196 why in 2185 God says other days.. So words of Quran should carefully applied according to context with synonyms...
Any comments.?
In 2196 it doesn't specify it must be done same day, plus we already have the precedent of prior verse 2185 where it says if one is maridan/ill they can do other days. Thus I do not see a problem.
Also your trans of 2196 does not flow, nor am I sure it is practical. Some issues, not all
"restrained yourself / committed yourself " the verb is passive as mentioned in the article, i.e. they did not do this themselves, they receive the action expressed in the verb on them.
"became among you sickening / dismay (mareed) and he is (in him) irritation / displeasure", it's or.I used to think "hajj" may be "debate" but it is not, see here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlIn The Quran, "al hajj" seems to refer to something well known to the audience a certain undertaking/event. It does not really matter what one calls it in English as the things taking place due to it will be the same. Meanings such as "the symposium/feast/homage/commemoration/enterprise" seem to work ok.
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In 2196 it doesn't specify it must be done same day, plus we already have the precedent of prior verse 2185 where it says if one is maridan/ill they can do other days. Thus I do not see a problem.
Also your trans of 2196 does not flow, nor am I sure it is practical. Some issues, not all
"restrained yourself / committed yourself " the verb is passive as mentioned in the article, i.e. they did not do this themselves, they receive the action expressed in the verb on them.
"became among you sickening / dismay (mareed) and he is (in him) irritation / displeasure", it's or.I used to think "hajj" may be "debate" but it is not, see here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlThank you for you response...
First of all I have to remind readers that my view of Haj is that it is no more... It's all done and over from Ibrahim to Mohamed . You don't have to do Haj.. Monotheism is completed and that is the concept of Haj.. Thats my take..
Having said that.. Yes.. Brother... I used to think that it was Feast /symposium etc like you currently think.. But I am of the opinion that of what you used to thought ie Debate.. 2196 is itself an evidence that Haj is not fundamentally a feast coz.. It doesn't say complete Haj and Umra but it says 'fulfill Haj and Umra FOR ALLAH'.. No one needs to COMPLETE a FEAST for Allah.. Do they? It doesn't make sense to call people of various faiths and creeds to a certain location in which certain restrictions are set and implemented to have a primal purpose of having a mere FEAST for a lengthy period? No.. In what angle it makes sense.. Yes indirectly it is a feast for those who are participating for haj umra, business, fun etc. .. No massive feast is there without reason instituted behind it.. Is there?
Second point..
Why it is not practical in your assumptions that I don't know, but for me it makes much more sense..
Even the point you raised regarding restraining self..
Let me put this way. .2197 says faman farada.. It means for me.. Whosoever obligated / taken to himself / undertaken.. So.. Whatever one undertakes, this whole concept of Haj is sanctioned with restrictions and that's what even AMAH indicates..
So there is no one who is preventing (like you translated) anyone from doing haj.. No reason to do so.. Coz it's a common place and it's happening for ages from the time of Ibrahim and well known event and very safe.. Everyone who comes there benefited regardless of their individual faith.. Nowhere in Quran it is stated prevented from doing Haj.. But note.. people may hinder your path from certain aspects of AMAH but not Haj since Haj itself debate.. Since you know the meaning of AMAH I don't need to explain difference between AMAH and Haj..It flows practically sound for me.. Point you raised.. Let me explain.. In a Group a person has become a trouble maker / sickening others, and it had become kind of annoyance / irritation to execute the leadership of Team Leader.. So in such situation God commands for the trouble maker to Self discipline /abstain.. You can't do this after fulfilling Haj.. It's an annoyance and it should be get rid of immediately.. So.. Given other option of assurance, a word from the trouble maker so that he won't be an irritation to anyone.. Third option is purify /clean himself by thinking on his own, let him realize.. Coz he is not there for trouble making.. He is on a purpose and on a duty.. So if they are secure from this then leave him .. Why it is not practically possible if each group has team leader. You have translated as well leaders (Ra'as).. So we are in same page.. Leaders are there already and others members.. Aren't they? So what is the issue here of practically not sound..
But I think you have taken these leaders as authorities outside ... It is their own team leaders for their own welfare. . No common authority to throw anyone out of it.. Coz from every kind of community people flock, they need a team leader to look after... It seems it was the practice used practice in haj for a long time.. I don't see any practical issue..... If prevented from Haj, then only real practical issue arise.. Another logical question, why one need to gift Hady if prevented from Haj.. What benefit for him? He should be part and parcel of his own Hady in the first place.. Do you think God starts the vets 2196 itself from prevention? But verses starts of those who commited or restrained themself for Haj.. So if not prevented then No need Hady? That's weird.. Isn't it?
Thank you
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I personally do not refer to it as "feast" although I can understand how it came to be labelled that. I don't really have a problem with that term as long as one understands it is not feast only. I am not aware of a verse in Quran wherein a hajj participant is feasting but certainly a lot of the activities revolve around food/provision and the only obligatory act seems to be the sacrifice/slaughter of an animal to feed the needy.
