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  3. Questions/Comments on the Quran
  4. Are we true believers!

Are we true believers!

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • shukriS Offline
    shukriS Offline
    shukri
    wrote on last edited by
    #35

    Continuation

    The computer found 251,735 such numbers out of a population of 8,888,888,888,888 possible
    numbers (i.e., numbers that lie between 111,111,111,111,111 and 119,999,999,999,999).
    Therefore, the chance of a number at random and by pure coincidence satisfying the 9 listed
    conditions is 251,735 ÷ 8,888,888,888,888 or approximately 1 in 35 million! This is similar to the
    odds of tossing a coin 25 times and getting heads every single time.

    Based on this information, we can say that two such facts about Sura 1 coincidentally occurring is
    like tossing a coin 50 times and getting heads every single time, i.e., 1 in (35 million) x (35 million)
    or approximately 1 in a quadrillion. The more such facts that appear in a book or chapter, the
    probability of them occurring purely by chance becomes even more minuscule. This probability
    quickly approaches zero as we take additional mathematical facts into consideration.

    Note a more general version of the pattern described, which considers aggregate parameters of
    Sura 1, is
    n = 1 # 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 *
    Here, “#” represents sura-level aggregate parameters, e.g., the number of verses in Sura

    1. An example of this pattern is seen in Fact 8 which starts with the sura number (1)
      followed by the number of verses (7) in the sura, followed by each verse number and the
      corresponding gematrical value of each letter within the verse. The additional
      complexity implies an even tinier likelihood that a number will satisfy our sample
      conditions by coincidence.

    A reasonable person may therefore conclude that the structure of Sura 1, The Key, is by the
    design of an Almighty Author, especially given that the mathematical structure encompasses the
    entire book, not just the first chapter.

    Ends.

    Thank you.

    "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • J Offline
      J Offline
      jkhan
      wrote on last edited by
      #36

      100% ignorant garbage for dummies
      Simple digit flipping hide 18/19 fails show 1/19 hits
      Zero consistency multiples posted with other chapters
      Take any one parameter ~5 other chapters predictable
      Apply same methods other numbers 7, 11, 13, 17, 23, 29
      No 19 code in Qur’an any single parameter ~1/19 predictable
      There’s no nice way to say it other than you guys are ignorant
      Likewise you guys can’t read basic stuff suggest learn numbers

      feminine and masculine eg nineteen morons (masculine)
      تِسْعةَ عَشرَ بليداً

      http//allthearabicyouneverlearnedthefirsttimearound.com/p3/arabic-numbers/

      Before you make statement saying 100% garb.. First reflect if you are believer, why there are Arabic letters in Quran..

      Why in chapter 2 and 3 it starts with Alif Lam MeeM and not in chapter 4? Why... Is the author has some sense in placing those mere arabic letters? It arabic letters has healing power for hearts they read them? It someone included these letters on top of 29 chapters noy in middle or end just to show this book is different? Or if you are a believer bring the reason for these letters to appear in the Quran? Do you have any valid reason of your own, if so elucidate it.. But you keep denying people who bring even the most convincing pattern... Or you want even a patten which God even not placed in it?
      If until the day of judgement those letters didn't mean anything Quran then isn't it waste placing them logically? Or else tell us in black and white. WHAT GUIDANCE YOU GOT BY THESE VERSEA WHICH SHUKRI SPEAKS OF.. or what importance for you these letters in Quran? If nothing then why you say what you don't know of... It you want to say some coincidences somehow have occurred in Quran but fools are after it...
      Well people yes I can see most sunni Muslims nowadays so proud of talking about numeric pattern but they totally discard ehere it originated... And they only most bring inconsistent lies...

      Anyway.. Be happy with what you are satisfied. After all believera only will get convinced as per the verse... So.. I dont mind you reject it.. Coz verse confirms your stance..

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • N Offline
        N Offline
        Nom_de_plume
        wrote on last edited by
        #37

        The computer found 251,735 such numbers …

        lol ignorant of computing, statistics, and basic probability they teach 10 year olds.

        Before you make statement saying 100% garb.. First reflect if you are believer

        Anyway.. Be happy with what you are satisfied. After all believera only will get convinced as per the verse... So.. I dont mind you reject it.. Coz verse confirms your stance..

        Is it a test for a believer to determine if they are too dumb to understand simple numerology tricks? What was the test conducted 1400 or 100 years ago?

        People who identify themselves as believers also believe that stoning women after childbirth or marrying 6-year-old girls is acceptable.

        Did you follow my instructions and try any of those methods, such as attempting different combinations of letters (which failed), or adding different numbers to the front or back? For example, in Ch1, they achieved monotonous work, which provided them with a sense of "arousal" as a reward.

        Try applying the same techniques for any single multiple to other chapters, and you will experience approximately six instances of "arousal" (welcome to the nineteenth addicts disease club!)

        Soon, you will find yourself scrutinizing your own posts, timestamps, street addresses, and everything around you.

        Similarly, apply any parameter, whether it be verses, words, or combinations thereof, and you will encounter 6236/19 instances of "arousal"!

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • shukriS Offline
          shukriS Offline
          shukri
          wrote on last edited by
          #38

          lol ignorant of computing, statistics, and basic probability they teach 10 year olds.

          The facts given to you plain and clear
          And up to you to accept it or not
          No compulsion in religion.

          3918 They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom God has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

          Thank you.

          "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • shukriS Offline
            shukriS Offline
            shukri
            wrote on last edited by
            #39

            Code 19 in the opening statement of the Quran (the Basmalah ... بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ)
            https//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp/bp.pdf?
            Coincidence or divine design?

            Some highlights quoted from the Introduction of the book for our reflection!
            (1) Many of us feel that the questions in our minds about the existence of God would be resolved if we witnessed a miracle from God, similar to the ones performed by Moses or Jesus that we read about in the scriptures. We may also think that it is not really fair to our generation that God does not send down miracles any more. Yet, let us be serious. With all the scientific and technological advancements that we have today, who would believe in the ancient type of miracles such as healing the sick, or reviving the dead? It would be more logical for God to send down a miracle that is more compatible for the minds and the lifestyles of the people in this day and age. The lack of a modern miracle contradicts the idea that God is the Most Wise. It also gives the impression that God is not adaptable to our higher levels of thinking. Is God only capable of miracles for simpler, more ancient minds? Did God deliver His miracles to a few small generations, while our generation is greater in number, and there are even larger generations to come?

            To be continued

            "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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            • shukriS Offline
              shukriS Offline
              shukri
              wrote on last edited by
              #40

              (2) The objective of this book is to present to the reader a mathematical system embedded in a scripture from God. This mathematical system is so inter-woven, so interlaced, and so pervasive throughout this scripture that it is beyond the probability of coincidence or human manufacture, proving its divinity and therefore the existence of God. This built-in system has been recently unveiled through the computer analysis of the original text of the scripture. It is the perfect opportunity for people who want to reaffirm their belief in God, and do not want to accept anything on blind faith. With this scripture and the new physical evidence, a clearer picture emerges There is only one God who is eternal, all knowing, and merciful. The One God who is in complete control of every little detail in the universe, and the One who can make Himself manifest for all.

              Ends.

              "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

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              • J Offline
                J Offline
                jkhan
                wrote on last edited by
                #41

                lol ignorant of computing, statistics, and basic probability they teach 10 year olds.

                Is it a test for a believer to determine if they are too dumb to understand simple numerology tricks? What was the test conducted 1400 or 100 years ago?

                People who identify themselves as believers also believe that stoning women after childbirth or marrying 6-year-old girls is acceptable.

                Did you follow my instructions and try any of those methods, such as attempting different combinations of letters (which failed), or adding different numbers to the front or back? For example, in Ch1, they achieved monotonous work, which provided them with a sense of "arousal" as a reward.

                Try applying the same techniques for any single multiple to other chapters, and you will experience approximately six instances of "arousal" (welcome to the nineteenth addicts disease club!)

                Soon, you will find yourself scrutinizing your own posts, timestamps, street addresses, and everything around you.

                Similarly, apply any parameter, whether it be verses, words, or combinations thereof, and you will encounter 6236/19 instances of "arousal"!

                Just answer to my question that's more than sufficient.. Why arabic letters in 29 chapters and that too different letters 1 to 5 ... Just answer..no need any instructions from you... Keep it simple.. And answer.. If you don't have an answer.. It doesn't matter..

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                • shukriS Offline
                  shukriS Offline
                  shukri
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #42

                  See this link
                  http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp2/BeyondProbability_TheKey_AlFatehah.pdf?
                  Here the miracle-19 plays it vital role in this challenge
                  Can any human produce the surah like this?
                  If they can, just prove it!
                  And we will be their witnesses in the hereafter

                  I would like to see if anybody here willing to accept the challenge
                  Just produce your own surah with seven verses
                  And list down the in-built code 19 as been done by "Masjid Tucson"
                  And then give detail explanation for every fact you found one by one
                  The explanation is vital to avoid any junk code based on random permutation

                  Al-Fatihah means "the Opener" or "the Key"
                  Thus the challenge is to make a new opener or new key of the Quran
                  For the doubters of the Quran divinity and the mockers of miracle 19
                  Please accept the challenge!

                  Talk the talk is a waste of time
                  And it goes nowhere!

                  224 If you cannot do this and you can never do this then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.

                  Glory be to God
                  Lord of the worlds!

                  Thank you.

                  "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    Nom_de_plume
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #43

                    Code 19 in the opening statement of the Quran (the Basmalah ... بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ)
                    Coincidence or divine design?

                    no code 19 no coincidence no design it consistently fails for other verses in same chapter
                    it’s simply flipping through different iterations searching for multiples which is really dumb

                    Just answer to my question that's more than sufficient.. Why arabic letters in 29 chapters...

                    29 is not 19 is it?
                    initials (under study) not separate verses until 100s of years later suspect are abbreviations.

                    Again — what did 7431 mean to those believers at time of revelation and 1400 years after?

                    Lastly, I kindly request that you consider focusing your attention on one topic at a time and exhibit a willingness to independently acquire knowledge, rather than relying solely on others to provide information. It is considered polite to respond to questions posed to you instead of evading them. Furthermore, it would be advantageous for effective communication if you refrain from spamming threads and make an effort to utilize proper grammar, such as utilizing tools like OpenAI to assist you. Thank you for taking these suggestions into account.

                    I would like to see if anybody here willing to accept the challenge
                    Just produce your own surah with seven verses
                    And list down the in-built code 19 as been done by "Masjid Tucson"

                    Again — no 19 code they posted junk inconsistent with other chapters flipping numbers deceiving cowards hiding 18/19 of all failures only showing 1/19 predictable multiples to beguile those ignorant and themselves which works with any text and with any number (this is easy to understand simply try it for yourself and learn).

                    One popular form of Arabic poetry is the "Qasida," which typically consists of multiple stanzas, each containing a specific number of verses. While the number of verses in a Qasida can vary, it is not uncommon to find Qasidas with seven verses. These shorter Qasidas are known as "Qasida Sab'a" or "Qasida Munsariha."
                    Here is an example of a Qasida Sab'a

                    ‎يا من له عطائه وفاءٌ مجملاً
                    ‎يا من قلبه بالوصل لي على حرٍّ
                    ‎يا من له تواضع الأنبياء لمجده
                    ‎يا من له أنوارُ الأرض والسما أنفسٍ

                    ‎إنما عفوه في الأرض عادةٌ لمجده
                    ‎وعفوه في السما تجده بالمغفّرةِ

                    ‎يا ليت من ينصف المظلومين من القتلة
                    ‎يا ليت من ينتقم للمظلومِ مِن أعدٍّ

                    Translation
                    O one whose generosity is complete,
                    O one who grants me closeness in times of hardship,
                    O one whose majesty humbled even the prophets,
                    O one whose light resides within every soul on earth and in the heavens,
                    Indeed, His forgiveness on earth is customary to His glory, And His forgiveness in the heavens is found in His pardoning,
                    If only there were someone to seek justice for the oppressed from the killers,
                    If only there were someone to avenge the wronged from their enemies.

                    Arabic poem with 7 verses is attributed to the poet Ibn al-Qarih, and it goes as follows

                    ‎أَمَّا الْوَرْدُ فَالْمُغْرِيَّةُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الثُّوَى فَالْهَيَامُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الزَّهْرُ فَالْجَمَالُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الْوَصْلُ فَالسَّعَادَةُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الرَّقِيقُ فَالْحَنَانُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الْهَمَّ فَالصَّبْرُ فِيهِ
                    ‎وَأَمَّا الدَّهْرُ فَالزَّوَالُ فِيهِ

                    Transliteration
                    Ammā al-wardu fal-mughriyyatu fīhi
                    Wa ammā ath-thūwā fal-hayāmu fīhi
                    Wa ammā az-zahru fal-jamālu fīhi
                    Wa ammā al-waṣlu fal-sa'ādatu fīhi
                    Wa ammā ar-raqiqu fal-ḥanānu fīhi
                    Wa ammā al-hamma fal-ṣabru fīhi
                    Wa ammā ad-dahru fal-zawālu fīhi

                    Translation
                    As for the rose, allure lies within it
                    And as for the aroma, it's in its vigor
                    And as for the flower, beauty lies within it
                    And as for connection, happiness lies within it
                    And as for tenderness, it's in affection
                    And as for worries, patience lies within them
                    And as for time, its passing lies within it

                    letters 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 135 total
                    words 7 verses x 4 words = 28 total
                    abjad value of poem = 5687 total

                    190 iterations ~10 multiples, 1900 ~100 multiples
                    Go start flipping thousands of ways (hide failures!)

                    ch, verse sequence
                    1 1234567 = 19 x 591,213

                    words, total
                    4444444 28 = 19 x 23391812

                    letters, words
                    135 28 = 19 x 172

                    ch, total words, letters
                    1 28 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 19 x 674,694,311,642,201

                    ch, verses, words, abjad total
                    1 7 28 5687 = 19 x 909,773

                    5687 28 7 1 = 19 x 2,993,309

                    I’ll leave numerous others as an exercise feel free to continue uncovering additional "facts."

                    Peace!

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                    • shukriS Offline
                      shukriS Offline
                      shukri
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #44

                      Arabic poem with 7 verses is attributed to the poet Ibn al-Qarih, and it goes as follows

                      ‎أَمَّا الْوَرْدُ فَالْمُغْرِيَّةُ فِيهِ
                      ‎وَأَمَّا الثُّوَى فَالْهَيَامُ فِيهِ
                      ‎وَأَمَّا الزَّهْرُ فَالْجَمَالُ فِيهِ
                      وَأَمَّا الْوَصْلُ فَالسَّعَادَةُ فِيهِ
                      ‎وَأَمَّا الرَّقِيقُ فَالْحَنَانُ فِيهِ
                      ‎وَأَمَّا الْهَمَّ فَالصَّبْرُ فِيهِ
                      ‎وَأَمَّا الدَّهْرُ فَالزَّوَالُ فِيهِ

                      Translation
                      As for the rose, allure lies within it
                      And as for the aroma, it's in its vigor
                      And as for the flower, beauty lies within it
                      And as for connection, happiness lies within it
                      And as for tenderness, it's in affection
                      And as for worries, patience lies within them
                      And as for time, its passing lies within it

                      letters 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 135 total
                      words 7 verses x 4 words = 28 total
                      abjad value of poem = 5687 total

                      190 iterations ~10 multiples, 1900 ~100 multiples
                      Go start flipping thousands of ways (hide failures!)

                      ch, verse sequence
                      1 1234567 = 19 x 591,213

                      words, total
                      4444444 28 = 19 x 23391812

                      letters, words
                      135 28 = 19 x 172

                      ch, total words, letters
                      1 28 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 19 x 674,694,311,642,201

                      ch, verses, words, abjad total
                      1 7 28 5687 = 19 x 909,773

                      5687 28 7 1 = 19 x 2,993,309

                      I’ll leave numerous others as an exercise feel free to continue uncovering additional "facts."

                      ch, verse sequence
                      1 1234567 = 19 x 591,213
                      Every chapter with seven verses will share this code ... nothing special on that!

                      And know we use the number of letters in each verse
                      1 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 19 x 6273259010622.05 (fail)

                      We insert the gematrical value of each verse next to the number of letters
                      1 19 1744 19 857 19 571 21 551 20 804 18 622 19 538 =
                      19 x 62723378872208269555326739045379975.68 (fail)

                      AND we insert the verse number before number of letters and gematrical value
                      1 1 19 1744 2 19 857 3 19 571 4 21 551 5 20 804 6 18 622 7 19 538 =
                      19 x 589039169466174714285344816884453611722080.94 (fail)

                      Over a dozen facts of the pattern n = 1 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 * in surah Al-Fatihah given by "Masjid Tucson".
                      And the calculation of the "probability" is done mainly on this pattern!

                      Try again!
                      Thank you.

                      "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • J Offline
                        J Offline
                        jkhan
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #45

                        @NDP

                        Yes.. 29 is not 19 ..19 is not 10 and 10 is not 7...

                        Isn't it so easy to keep these letters on top of 19 chapters? Lol.. You are funny.. Isn't it so easy to select 19 letters for this purpose.. But God does what He does. So be patient.. Truth is the one that prevails, though falsehood is spread everywhere...
                        If a person has DNA and currency has its features to be called genuine then God's book will definitely have His signature...
                        No time to waste with pretenders.. There is lot a believer can do for fellow believers using the precious time...

                        Quran is not just a book just coz we say it is from God, it won't become from God.. But book itself will prove it is the book from God.. Wait patiently.. But even the truth is exposed pretenders won't believe... So good luck in your journey...

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                        • shukriS Offline
                          shukriS Offline
                          shukri
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #46

                          Bro Nom,
                          Look at surah Al-Fatihah below

                          11 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful (بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ - basmallah)
                          12 Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds.
                          13 The Almighty, the Merciful.
                          14 Sovereign of the Day of Judgment.
                          15 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help.
                          16 Guide us to the straight path.
                          17 The path of those You have graced, not of those who have incurred

                          You see the "basmallah" in this surah is designated as 11 viz. verse one
                          And has been designed with its own built-in code 19
                          https//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp/bp.pdf?

                          Thus, anyone who wants to produce miracle surah like al-Fatihah also needs to design an opener verse comparable to built-in code 19 of verse 11 (basmallah)! Now the task becomes more difficult and more challenging!

                          Btw, thanks for your effort to prove something!
                          Be patient and good luck!

                          224 If you cannot do this and you can never do this then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.

                          Thank you.

                          Note
                          In my #Reply 43, the phrase "And know we use the number of letters in each verse" should be read as "And now we use the number of letters in each verse".

                          Sorry for any inconvenience!

                          "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jkhan
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #47

                            Bro Nom,
                            Look at surah Al-Fatihah below

                            11 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful (بِسمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحمٰنِ الرَّحيمِ - basmallah)
                            12 Praise be to God, Lord of the worlds.
                            13 The Almighty, the Merciful.
                            14 Sovereign of the Day of Judgment.
                            15 You alone we serve, and You alone we seek for help.
                            16 Guide us to the straight path.
                            17 The path of those You have graced, not of those who have incurred

                            You see the "basmallah" in this surah is designated as 11 viz. verse one
                            And has been designed with its own built-in code 19
                            https//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp/bp.pdf?

                            Thus, anyone who wants to produce miracle surah like al-Fatihah also needs to design an opener verse comparable to built-in code 19 of verse 11 (basmallah)! Now the task becomes more difficult and more challenging!

                            Btw, thanks for your effort to prove something!
                            Be patient and good luck!

                            224 If you cannot do this and you can never do this then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.

                            Thank you.

                            Note
                            In my #Reply 43, the phrase "And know we use the number of letters in each verse" should be read as "And now we use the number of letters in each verse".

                            Sorry for any inconvenience!

                            Brother Shukri..
                            Time one spends on anything is worthy if it really meaningful... So don't waste time on pretenders...

                            Just ask him whether he believes in entire Quran first of all.. I am 100 % sure he is not .. Many a threads of his as NDP and as NWQ is proof for that... Let him reply that he believes in entire Quran... Even he replies Yes.. It is a pretention.. So.. Just relax and use your valuable time in which it has worth...

                            Note... One thing I realized in my life with Quran is... By going after pretenders to respond them we don't learn anything.. But search to answer true questions of believers raised with right intent then you will learn a lot with true guidance from God... There are a lot that we don't know in Quran to learn, so apply your time on it.. I know it is your life and your freedom to do what you like, but as believer and all believers are brothers I suggest you.. Just avoid.

                            He doesn't believe in entire Quran, he doubts... So why talk about numeric pattern to a person who in the first place not even accepted Quran in its entirety.. What matters for him symmetry thereafter?
                            If a son doesn't respect father at all, what benefit informing him that your father is passed away come and show final respect...lol... No use of numerics for those who don't believe in Quran in the first place.

                            Thank you...

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                            • shukriS Offline
                              shukriS Offline
                              shukri
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #48

                              Brother Shukri..
                              Time one spends on anything is worthy if it really meaningful... So don't waste time on pretenders...

                              Just ask him whether he believes in entire Quran first of all.. I am 100 % sure he is not .. Many a threads of his as NDP and as NWQ is proof for that... Let him reply that he believes in entire Quran... Even he replies Yes.. It is a pretention.. So.. Just relax and use your valuable time in which it has worth...

                              Your suggestion is greatly appreciated sun
                              Thanks.

                              "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred"

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • G Offline
                                G Offline
                                good_logic
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #49

                                Peace All.

                                Who is GOD addressing here? Those who received GOD s scripture including Qoran are also included, why not?

                                Those who received the scripture rejoice in what was revealed to you; some others may reject parts of it. Say, "I am simply enjoined to serve/follow/ubud God, and never associate any idols with Him. I invite to Him, and to Him is my ultimate destiny."
                                وَالَّذينَ ءاتَينٰهُمُ الكِتٰبَ يَفرَحونَ بِما أُنزِلَ إِلَيكَ وَمِنَ الأَحزابِ مَن يُنكِرُ بَعضَهُ قُل إِنَّما أُمِرتُ أَن أَعبُدَ اللَّهَ وَلا أُشرِكَ بِهِ إِلَيهِ أَدعوا وَإِلَيهِ مَـٔابِ

                                GOD is talking to the generations after Mohammed here as included are all those who received scripture before and Qoran. The messenger here cannot be Mohammed!!!

                                We revealed these laws in Arabic- locked mathematically with a specific code to preserve it-, and if you ever acquiesce to their wishes, after this knowledge has come to you, you will have no ally, nor a protector, against God.
                                وَكَذٰلِكَ أَنزَلنٰهُ حُكمًا عَرَبِيًّا وَلَئِنِ اتَّبَعتَ أَهواءَهُم بَعدَما جاءَكَ مِنَ العِلمِ ما لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن وَلِىٍّ وَلا واقٍ
                                We have sent messengers before you, and we made them husbands with wives and children. No messenger can produce a miracle without God's authorization, and in accordance with a specific, predetermined time.
                                وَلَقَد أَرسَلنا رُسُلًا مِن قَبلِكَ وَجَعَلنا لَهُم أَزوٰجًا وَذُرِّيَّةً وَما كانَ لِرَسولٍ أَن يَأتِىَ بِـٔايَةٍ إِلّا بِإِذنِ اللَّهِ لِكُلِّ أَجَلٍ كِتابٌ
                                God erases whatever He wills, and fixes. With Him is the original Master Record.
                                يَمحُوا اللَّهُ ما يَشاءُ وَيُثبِتُ وَعِندَهُ أُمُّ الكِتٰبِ

                                Or what is being fixed here?

                                Whether we show you what we promise them, or terminate your life before that, your sole mission is to deliver (the message). It is us who will call them to account.
                                وَإِن ما نُرِيَنَّكَ بَعضَ الَّذى نَعِدُهُم أَو نَتَوَفَّيَنَّكَ فَإِنَّما عَلَيكَ البَلٰغُ وَعَلَينَا الحِسابُ
                                Do they not see that every day on earth, brings them closer to the end, and that God decides their life span, irrevocably? He is the most efficient Reckoner.
                                أَوَلَم يَرَوا أَنّا نَأتِى الأَرضَ نَنقُصُها مِن أَطرافِها وَاللَّهُ يَحكُمُ لا مُعَقِّبَ لِحُكمِهِ وَهُوَ سَريعُ الحِسابِ
                                Others before them have schemed, but to God belongs the ultimate scheming. He knows what everyone is doing. The disbelievers will find out who the ultimate winners are.
                                وَقَد مَكَرَ الَّذينَ مِن قَبلِهِم فَلِلَّهِ المَكرُ جَميعًا يَعلَمُ ما تَكسِبُ كُلُّ نَفسٍ وَسَيَعلَمُ الكُفّٰرُ لِمَن عُقبَى الدّارِ
                                Those who disbelieved will say, "You are not a messenger!" Say, "God suffices as a witness between me and you, and those who possess knowledge of the scripture."
                                وَيَقولُ الَّذينَ كَفَروا لَستَ مُرسَلًا قُل كَفىٰ بِاللَّهِ شَهيدًا بَينى وَبَينَكُم وَمَن عِندَهُ عِلمُ الكِتٰبِ

                                Yes Qoran testifies to this . GOD sending a messenger to unveil the mathematical composition of His last scripture.
                                GOD bless you all.
                                Peace.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  Nom_de_plume
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #50

                                  ch, verse sequence
                                  1 1234567 = 19 x 591,213
                                  Every chapter with seven verses will share this code ... nothing special on that!

                                  same like 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 or any 3 4 6 6 letter words ... nothing special about that!

                                  And know we use the number of letters in each verse
                                  1 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 19 x 6273259010622.05 (fail)

                                  they tried letters only first ch (failed!) then tried adding 1 and freaked out!
                                  how many other chapters have the same exact pattern? how many failures?

                                  Over a dozen facts of the pattern n = 1 1 * 2 * 3 * 4 * 5 * 6 * 7 * in surah Al-Fatihah given by "Masjid Tucson".
                                  And the calculation of the "probability" is done mainly on this pattern!

                                  flipping digits and freaking out! did I not say to try it? there are thousands!

                                  eg with only a few totals; forget individual letter values would fill the forum with multiples.

                                  ‎أَمَّا الْوَرْدُ فَالْمُغْرِيَّةُ فِيهِ
                                  ‎وَأَمَّا الثُّوَى فَالْهَيَامُ فِيهِ
                                  ‎وَأَمَّا الزَّهْرُ فَالْجَمَالُ فِيهِ
                                  وَأَمَّا الْوَصْلُ فَالسَّعَادَةُ فِيهِ
                                  ‎وَأَمَّا الرَّقِيقُ فَالْحَنَانُ فِيهِ
                                  ‎وَأَمَّا الْهَمَّ فَالصَّبْرُ فِيهِ
                                  ‎وَأَمَّا الدَّهْرُ فَالزَّوَالُ فِيهِ

                                  Translation
                                  As for the rose, allure lies within it
                                  And as for the aroma, it's in its vigor
                                  And as for the flower, beauty lies within it
                                  And as for connection, happiness lies within it
                                  And as for tenderness, it's in affection
                                  And as for worries, patience lies within them
                                  And as for time, its passing lies within it

                                  letters 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 135 total
                                  words 7 verses x 4 words = 28 total
                                  abjad value of poem = 5687 total

                                  v lt w w1 gv1 w2 gv2 w3 gv3 w4 gv4 tot
                                  1 19 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744
                                  2 19 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857
                                  3 19 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571
                                  4 21 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551
                                  5 20 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804
                                  6 18 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622
                                  7 19 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538

                                  28 135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687

                                  1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744
                                  2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857
                                  3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571
                                  4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551
                                  5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804
                                  6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622
                                  7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 4 19
                                  2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 4 19
                                  3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 4 19
                                  4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 21
                                  5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 4 20
                                  6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 4 18
                                  7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 4 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19
                                  2 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19
                                  3 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19
                                  4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21
                                  5 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20
                                  6 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18
                                  7 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19 4
                                  2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19 4
                                  3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19 4
                                  4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21 4
                                  5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20 4
                                  6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18 4
                                  7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 4
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744 1
                                  1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857 2
                                  1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571 3
                                  1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551 4
                                  1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804 5
                                  1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622 6
                                  1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 7 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 1 4 19
                                  1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 2 4 19
                                  1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 3 4 19
                                  1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 4 21
                                  1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 5 4 20
                                  1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 6 4 18
                                  1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 7 4 19 = 19 x

                                  1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19 1 4
                                  1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19 2 4
                                  1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19 3 4
                                  1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21 4 4
                                  1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20 5 4
                                  1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18 6 4
                                  1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 7 4
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 28 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744 1
                                  1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857 2
                                  1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571 3
                                  1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551 4
                                  1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804 5
                                  1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622 6
                                  1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 7
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 28 = 19 x

                                  19 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 1744
                                  19 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 857
                                  19 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 571
                                  21 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 551
                                  20 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 804
                                  18 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 622
                                  19 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 538
                                  135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x

                                  4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                  4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                  4 1 1744 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                  4 2 857 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                  4 3 571 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                  4 4 551 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                  4 5 804 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                  4 6 622 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                  4 7 538 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19
                                  4 2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19
                                  4 3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19
                                  4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21
                                  4 5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20
                                  4 6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18
                                  4 7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 1 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 19
                                  4 2 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 19
                                  4 3 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 19
                                  4 4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 21
                                  4 5 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 20
                                  4 6 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 18
                                  4 7 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 19
                                  4 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 19
                                  4 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 19
                                  4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21
                                  4 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 20
                                  4 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 18
                                  4 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 1 19
                                  4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 2 19
                                  4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 3 19
                                  4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 21
                                  4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 5 20
                                  4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 6 18
                                  4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 7 19 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 1744
                                  4 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 857
                                  4 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 571
                                  4 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 551
                                  4 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 804
                                  4 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 622
                                  4 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 538
                                  28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  4 1 19 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                  4 2 19 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                  4 3 19 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                  4 4 21 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                  4 5 20 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                  4 6 18 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                  4 7 19 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                  28 28 135 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                  4 1744 1 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                  4 857 2 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                  4 571 3 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                  4 551 4 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                  4 804 5 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                  4 622 6 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                  4 538 7 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                  28 5687 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1744 19 4 1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                  857 19 4 2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                  571 19 4 3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                  551 21 4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                  804 20 4 5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                  622 18 4 6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                  538 19 4 7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 = 19 x

                                  1
                                  1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 4 19
                                  857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 4 19
                                  571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 4 19
                                  551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 4 21
                                  804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 4 20
                                  622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 4 18
                                  538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 4 19 = 19 x

                                  1 135 7 14 21 28 28 28 = 19 x
                                  1 135 5687 7 14 21 28 28 28 = 19 x
                                  1 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                  1 28 28 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                  1 5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                  1 330 1945 2747 665 5687 135 = 19 x
                                  1 28 135 5687 = 19 x
                                  1 28 5687 28 135 = 19 x
                                  1 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                  1 28 135 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  1 28 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                  1 28 5687 135 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  1 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 28 = 19 x
                                  1 135 28 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 = 19 x
                                  1 28 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x

                                  7 14 21 28 5687 135 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x
                                  7 14 21 28 28 1 5687 135 = 19 x
                                  7 14 21 28 28 5687 1 28 135 = 19 x
                                  7 14 21 28 28 5687 28 135 1 = 19 x
                                  7 14 21 28 1 5687 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                  7 14 21 28 135 1 5687 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 1 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 1 135 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 1 28 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 28 = 19 x

                                  28 5687 135 = 19 x
                                  28 28 1 5687 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                  28 5687 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                  28 28 5687 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                  28 1 28 5687 135 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  28 135 330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 = 19 x
                                  28 330 1945 2747 665 135 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  28 330 1945 2747 665 1 135 = 19 x
                                  28 7 14 21 28 28 1 135 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 28 1 5687 135 = 19 x
                                  28 135 1 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 330 1945 2747 665 135 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  28 1 135 330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 1 7 14 21 28 135 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 28 135 5687 330 1945 2747 665 1 = 19 x
                                  28 135 5687 1 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                  28 28 135 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  28 135 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                  28 135 1 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  28 1 135 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                  28 135 28 7 14 21 28 1 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 1 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  28 135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 28 1 = 19 x
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  28 1 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  28 135 5687 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  28 1 135 5687 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  28 5687 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 = 19 x
                                  28 28 135 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 1 = 19 x

                                  135 1 28 = 19 x
                                  135 28 = 19 x
                                  135 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  135 28 5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  135 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  135 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  135 5687 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                  135 1 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  135 28 5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                  135 1 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  135 5687 7 14 21 28 28 1 = 19 x
                                  135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x
                                  135 1 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x

                                  330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 135 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 135 28 1 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 135 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 135 1 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 1 28 135 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 135 28 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 28 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 1 5687 28 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 135 28 5687 28 1 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 1 135 28 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                  330 1945 2747 665 28 135 28 1 = 19 x

                                  5687 135 1 = 19 x
                                  5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 135 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 135 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  5687 135 28 7 14 21 28 28 1 = 19 x
                                  5687 7 14 21 28 1 135 = 19 x
                                  5687 28 1 7 14 21 28 135 = 19 x
                                  5687 135 330 1945 2747 665 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 135 7 14 21 28 1 = 19 x
                                  5687 135 28 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                  5687 28 1 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                  5687 1 28 28 135 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                  5687 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                  5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 1 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 28 = 19 x
                                  5687 1 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  5687 28 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                  5687 28 135 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • J Offline
                                    J Offline
                                    jkhan
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #51

                                    same like 1 3 2 4 3 6 4 6 or any 3 4 6 6 letter words ... nothing special about that!
                                    they tried letters only first ch (failed!) then tried adding 1 and freaked out!
                                    how many other chapters have the same exact pattern? how many failures?
                                    flipping digits and freaking out! did I not say to try it? there are thousands!

                                    eg with only a few totals; forget individual letter values would fill the forum with multiples.

                                    ‎أَمَّا الْوَرْدُ فَالْمُغْرِيَّةُ فِيهِ
                                    ‎وَأَمَّا الثُّوَى فَالْهَيَامُ فِيهِ
                                    ‎وَأَمَّا الزَّهْرُ فَالْجَمَالُ فِيهِ
                                    وَأَمَّا الْوَصْلُ فَالسَّعَادَةُ فِيهِ
                                    ‎وَأَمَّا الرَّقِيقُ فَالْحَنَانُ فِيهِ
                                    ‎وَأَمَّا الْهَمَّ فَالصَّبْرُ فِيهِ
                                    ‎وَأَمَّا الدَّهْرُ فَالزَّوَالُ فِيهِ

                                    Translation
                                    As for the rose, allure lies within it
                                    And as for the aroma, it's in its vigor
                                    And as for the flower, beauty lies within it
                                    And as for connection, happiness lies within it
                                    And as for tenderness, it's in affection
                                    And as for worries, patience lies within them
                                    And as for time, its passing lies within it

                                    letters 19 19 19 21 20 18 19 = 135 total
                                    words 7 verses x 4 words = 28 total
                                    abjad value of poem = 5687 total

                                    v lt w w1 gv1 w2 gv2 w3 gv3 w4 gv4 tot
                                    1 19 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744
                                    2 19 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857
                                    3 19 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571
                                    4 21 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551
                                    5 20 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804
                                    6 18 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622
                                    7 19 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538

                                    28 135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687

                                    1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744
                                    2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857
                                    3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571
                                    4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551
                                    5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804
                                    6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622
                                    7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 4 19
                                    2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 4 19
                                    3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 4 19
                                    4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 21
                                    5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 4 20
                                    6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 4 18
                                    7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 4 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19
                                    2 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19
                                    3 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19
                                    4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21
                                    5 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20
                                    6 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18
                                    7 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19 4
                                    2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19 4
                                    3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19 4
                                    4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21 4
                                    5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20 4
                                    6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18 4
                                    7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 4
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744 1
                                    1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857 2
                                    1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571 3
                                    1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551 4
                                    1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804 5
                                    1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622 6
                                    1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 7 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 1 4 19
                                    1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 2 4 19
                                    1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 3 4 19
                                    1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 4 21
                                    1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 5 4 20
                                    1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 6 4 18
                                    1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 7 4 19 = 19 x

                                    1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19 1 4
                                    1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19 2 4
                                    1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19 3 4
                                    1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21 4 4
                                    1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20 5 4
                                    1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18 6 4
                                    1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 7 4
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 28 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 4 19 1744 1
                                    1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 4 19 857 2
                                    1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 4 19 571 3
                                    1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21 551 4
                                    1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 4 20 804 5
                                    1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 4 18 622 6
                                    1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 4 19 538 7
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 28 = 19 x

                                    19 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 1744
                                    19 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 857
                                    19 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 571
                                    21 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 551
                                    20 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 804
                                    18 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 622
                                    19 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 538
                                    135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x

                                    4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                    4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                    4 1 1744 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                    4 2 857 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                    4 3 571 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                    4 4 551 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                    4 5 804 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                    4 6 622 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                    4 7 538 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 19
                                    4 2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 19
                                    4 3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 19
                                    4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 21
                                    4 5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 20
                                    4 6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 18
                                    4 7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 1 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 19
                                    4 2 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 19
                                    4 3 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 19
                                    4 4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 21
                                    4 5 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 20
                                    4 6 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 18
                                    4 7 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 19
                                    4 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 19
                                    4 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 19
                                    4 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 21
                                    4 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 20
                                    4 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 18
                                    4 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1744 1 19
                                    4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 857 2 19
                                    4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 571 3 19
                                    4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 551 4 21
                                    4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 804 5 20
                                    4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 622 6 18
                                    4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 538 7 19 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 1744
                                    4 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 857
                                    4 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 571
                                    4 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 551
                                    4 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 804
                                    4 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 622
                                    4 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 538
                                    28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    4 1 19 1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                    4 2 19 857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                    4 3 19 571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                    4 4 21 551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                    4 5 20 804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                    4 6 18 622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                    4 7 19 538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                    28 28 135 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                    4 1744 1 19 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                    4 857 2 19 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                    4 571 3 19 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                    4 551 4 21 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                    4 804 5 20 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                    4 622 6 18 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                    4 538 7 19 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95
                                    28 5687 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1744 19 4 1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                    857 19 4 2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                    571 19 4 3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                    551 21 4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                    804 20 4 5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                    622 18 4 6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                    538 19 4 7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 = 19 x

                                    1
                                    1744 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1 4 19
                                    857 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2 4 19
                                    571 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3 4 19
                                    551 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4 4 21
                                    804 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5 4 20
                                    622 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6 4 18
                                    538 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7 4 19 = 19 x

                                    1 135 7 14 21 28 28 28 = 19 x
                                    1 135 5687 7 14 21 28 28 28 = 19 x
                                    1 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                    1 28 28 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                    1 5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                    1 330 1945 2747 665 5687 135 = 19 x
                                    1 28 135 5687 = 19 x
                                    1 28 5687 28 135 = 19 x
                                    1 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                    1 28 135 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    1 28 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                    1 28 5687 135 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    1 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 28 = 19 x
                                    1 135 28 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 = 19 x
                                    1 28 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x

                                    7 14 21 28 5687 135 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x
                                    7 14 21 28 28 1 5687 135 = 19 x
                                    7 14 21 28 28 5687 1 28 135 = 19 x
                                    7 14 21 28 28 5687 28 135 1 = 19 x
                                    7 14 21 28 1 5687 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                    7 14 21 28 135 1 5687 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 1 28 28 135 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 28 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 1 135 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 135 1 28 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 5687 28 = 19 x

                                    28 5687 135 = 19 x
                                    28 28 1 5687 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                    28 5687 330 1945 2747 665 135 = 19 x
                                    28 28 5687 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                    28 1 28 5687 135 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    28 135 330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 = 19 x
                                    28 330 1945 2747 665 135 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    28 330 1945 2747 665 1 135 = 19 x
                                    28 7 14 21 28 28 1 135 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 28 1 5687 135 = 19 x
                                    28 135 1 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 330 1945 2747 665 135 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    28 1 135 330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 1 7 14 21 28 135 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 28 135 5687 330 1945 2747 665 1 = 19 x
                                    28 135 5687 1 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                    28 28 135 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    28 135 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                    28 135 1 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    28 1 135 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                    28 135 28 7 14 21 28 1 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 1 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    28 135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 28 1 = 19 x
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    28 1 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    28 135 5687 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    28 1 135 5687 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    28 5687 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 = 19 x
                                    28 28 135 5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 1 = 19 x

                                    135 1 28 = 19 x
                                    135 28 = 19 x
                                    135 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    135 28 5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    135 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    135 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    135 5687 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                    135 1 28 330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    135 28 5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                    135 1 5687 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    135 5687 7 14 21 28 28 1 = 19 x
                                    135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x
                                    135 1 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 5687 = 19 x

                                    330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 28 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 135 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 135 28 1 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 135 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 135 1 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 5687 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 1 28 135 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 135 28 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 28 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 135 1 28 5687 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 1 5687 28 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 135 28 5687 28 1 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 1 135 28 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 5687 1 28 = 19 x
                                    330 1945 2747 665 28 135 28 1 = 19 x

                                    5687 135 1 = 19 x
                                    5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 135 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 135 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 1 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    5687 135 28 7 14 21 28 28 1 = 19 x
                                    5687 7 14 21 28 1 135 = 19 x
                                    5687 28 1 7 14 21 28 135 = 19 x
                                    5687 135 330 1945 2747 665 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 135 7 14 21 28 1 = 19 x
                                    5687 135 28 28 330 1945 2747 665 = 19 x
                                    5687 28 1 28 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 330 1945 2747 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                    5687 1 28 28 135 7 14 21 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 135 = 19 x
                                    5687 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 1 = 19 x
                                    5687 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 1 28 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 1 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 28 = 19 x
                                    5687 1 28 135 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    5687 28 28 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x
                                    5687 28 135 1 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 = 19 x

                                    Numeric pattern is nothing for you but you are working hard with it....but you would say it is easy just software. Lol...
                                    Never mind.. Keep doing..

                                    Well.. What is the rose (alwazad) and what is FeeHi? May I know?

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                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      Nom_de_plume
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #52

                                      Numeric pattern is nothing for you but you are working hard with it....but you would say it is easy just software. Lol...
                                      Never mind.. Keep doing..

                                      There is no proven pattern or code 19 in the poem and likewise in fatiha or any chapter of the Quran. The method involves flipping numbers and conducting multiple calculations using Excel and a calculator, which can be a tedious process which you guys are too lazy to test other texts using same methods.

                                      https//www.boxentriq.com/code-breaking/big-number-calculator

                                      Here are a few new ones (same miracle poem) for your collection

                                      1
                                      1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95
                                      2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95
                                      3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95
                                      4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95
                                      5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95
                                      6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95
                                      7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 = 19 x …

                                      1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 19
                                      2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 19
                                      3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 19
                                      4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 21
                                      5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 20
                                      6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 18
                                      7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 19
                                      28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 135 = 19 x …

                                      1
                                      1 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 19
                                      2 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 19
                                      3 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 19
                                      4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 21
                                      5 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 20
                                      6 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 18
                                      7 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 19 = 19 x …

                                      1
                                      4 1 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 19
                                      4 2 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 19
                                      4 3 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 19
                                      4 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 21
                                      4 5 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 20
                                      4 6 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 18
                                      4 7 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 19 = 19 x …

                                      1
                                      19 4 1 42 2 241 3 1366 4 95 1
                                      19 4 1 48 2 547 3 167 4 95 2
                                      19 4 1 48 2 243 3 185 4 95 3
                                      21 4 1 48 2 157 3 251 4 95 4
                                      20 4 1 48 2 441 3 220 4 95 5
                                      18 4 1 48 2 76 3 403 4 95 6
                                      19 4 1 48 2 240 3 155 4 95 7
                                      135 28 7 330 14 1945 21 2747 28 665 28 = 19 x …

                                      It's all based on trial and error, with a predictable pattern where 1 out of 19 attempts (approximately 5%) yields results, while the remaining 18 out of 19 attempts (approximately 95%) do not.

                                      This idea is one of the silliest things on the internet, similar to the fact that about 1 out of 14 people in America (approximately 7%) believe that chocolate milk only comes from brown cows, which is humorous. laugh

                                      The suggestion is to implement this approach on various texts, such as random newspapers, poems, or hadiths, without concerning ourselves with the meaning of the content. The purpose is to provide you with a grasp of fundamental probability concepts, emphasizing the importance of incorporating more parameters and their corresponding multiples, which results in a reciprocal relationship.

                                      Well.. What is the rose (alwazad) and what is FeeHi? May I know?

                                      Irrelevant, see above. More relevant how to recite; how would you answer him?

                                      14 Owner/Māliki or Sovereign/Maliki?

                                      Mohammed Hijab ft. 3 Hadith Rejectors (Quranists) || Speakers Corner

                                      https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwmwq2hpCtE&lc=Ugxwt-nj2mFMQjUo4I14AaABAg

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                                      0
                                      • J Offline
                                        J Offline
                                        jkhan
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #53

                                        Irrelevant, see above. More relevant how to recite; how would you answer him?

                                        14 Owner/Māliki or Sovereign/Maliki?

                                        Mohammed Hijab ft. 3 Hadith Rejectors (Quranists) || Speakers Corner

                                        https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwmwq2hpCtE&lc=Ugxwt-nj2mFMQjUo4I14AaABAg

                                        It is relevant... Just explain why FeeHi in connection to the Rose...?

                                        I have dealt with hadith followers.. God clearly has explained what Maliki yuam iddeen in another chapter.. Let hadith followers dig deep. No easy path.. But you Don't iron out my question by adding a new thing..

                                        Note... Let those hadith followers read 8218-19 and reflect well what Malik Yaum iddeen.. I don't want discuss about that now.. Everyone has to study Quran as it deserves.. If they want..

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                                        • G Offline
                                          G Offline
                                          good_logic
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #54

                                          Wait a minute here!
                                          Are they trying to prove GODs words by Hadith?-Men s words?
                                          What kind of reasoning /logic is this?
                                          What does GOD say about His hadith? His own words?
                                          GOD s words are sufficient. GOD s words do not ned explaining by men s words/explanations. GOD s words are unchangeable and never run out.. GOD is the explainer and only source of His deen.
                                          Let us turn it around the way it should be
                                          What does GOD say about men s hadiths -Any other hadiths besides Qoran?
                                          Or are they not confirming for us that Hadiths come from men and Qoran comes from GOD?
                                          So out of the two, which is more secure in its truth , explanation and reasoning?
                                          The mind boggles!!! They do not value GOD and His words.
                                          End of argument about which words to follow.
                                          GOD bless you all.
                                          Peace.

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