The Mark on their Forehead
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There is only one passage from The Quran that is needed to answer your question about tests for false prophets
3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of you men. He is a messenger of God and the last of the prophets. God knows and is aware of all things.
No test is needed. Jesus warned of false prophets, because he wasn't the last of God's prophets.
Why do we accept that Mohammed was?
The whole of The Quran answers that question, and here we have reached an impasse. You are judging us by inaccurate and incomplete information, which we believe The Quran corrected and set right. Therefore, it makes no sense to explain our faith by your standards.1096 You have your religion; I have my religion.
Peace.
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.3340 Muhammad is not the father of any of you men. He is a messenger of God and the last of the prophets. God knows and is aware of all things.
Thank you for attempting to answer part of the question I asked, at least you gave it a try..
I know Muhammad declared himself to be a prophet.... it's very convenient to declare yourself a prophet, and leave out every verse from the scripture that details how to test for a false prophet and also how to test for a spirit that is not from God.
IF Muhammad said "I'm a prophet and here is the proof", and that proof was consistent with all previous parts of the scripture, than he could leave out such verses.
But he gave no such proof. He just said he was the messenger and you must blindly take his word for it.
If he was a prophet, what was he so afraid of, that he left out such information.
No test is needed. Jesus warned of false prophets, because he wasn't the last of God's prophets.
That doesn't make sense, are you saying there were many false prophets between Jesus and Muhammad.
Mat 715 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 2411 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 2424 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
To say that Muhammad was a prophet because he told you he was is not an answer
You also didn't answer my question my other question and that is
How do you know the spirit that revealed the revelations to Muhammad was a spirit from God and not a trickster sprit pretending to be Gabriel
1Jo 41 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
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No... muhammad said he received the revelations from gabriel..
Adam spoke directly with God
Jesus spoke directly with God
Moses spoke Directly with God
Abraham Spoke Directly with God
etc ectMuhammad (according to him) spoke to a spirit, who called himself gabriel and said he was from God.
Two big problems with this
1.. You only have muhammads word that Gabriel spoke to him.
2.. Even if a spirit who called himself Gabreil spoke to muhammad, you have no way of knowing that it was Gabriel and not a trickster spirit.
You are still avoiding the question.
The scripture has many verses that talk about trickster spirits
1Jo 41 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
And it gives details how to test a spirit to determine if it is in fact from God
The scripture also has many verses that talk about false prophet and also gives details how to test a prophet if in fact they are from God
Mat 715 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 2411 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
According to you and others, Muhammad was the Last prophet. If Muhammad was the last prophet, it seems God didn't think his mission was important enough to talk directly with him, instead of via Gabriel.
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2 Imagined judgement day interrogations from God
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God what ! you believed in a guy who DIDNT speak to me directly ? What about the book I sent ? You didn't believe in it because another book came EARLIER to it ? What about even earlier books ? Do you know about his history ? How many wives did he have ? How old was aisha ?
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God were you a decent human being ? did you stand up for justice? were you kind to your parents? Did you liberate humanity from oppression? Were you humble? Did you study signs in ur horizon and urself in order to see the truth?
which of these interrogations are most likely ?
If you say '2', then you will be echoing precisely the Quranic philosophy. The Quran isn't about these artificially created nonsense about which prophet is better and so on. This isn't WWF for religious nuts where you'll match Hulk Hogan against Randy Macho Man Savage. This is about YOU. YOUR personal exploration and development.
thanks and peace.
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No... muhammad said he received the revelations from gabriel..
Adam spoke directly with God
Jesus spoke directly with God
Moses spoke Directly with God
Abraham Spoke Directly with God
etc ectMuhammad (according to him) spoke to a spirit, who called himself gabriel and said he was from God.
Were you a direct witness to what happened above? Isn't Gabriel mentioned in your bibles? Perhaps you can answer from your own books as to who was Gabriel and his purpose?
A "trickster" would not talk about believing in ONE GOD, the Al-mighty, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and everything within and beyond, to live a spiritual and righteous life, now would he???
The bible is NOT God's words, but heresies written by John, Paul, Mathew, Luke and the like, very similar to Talmud and Ahadiths written by many men, long after the deaths of their respective prophets (the he-said/she-said dogmas). The original Torah and Gospel doesn't exist, but the Quran does, and that speaks volumes.
You are at your own liberty to refute your own corrupt bibles as in
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3661 -
It seems this is a difficult question for everone here. So far all posts have been the same with avoiding or unable to answer the question.
It's a straight forward question in two parts
1.. How do you know the spirit who spoke to Mihammad was in fact a spirit from God. What tests have you been told about to determine whether a spirir is or is not from God
2.. How do you know muhammad was a TRUE prophet and not someone who just declared himself to be a Prophet. What tests have you been told about in the Quran to determine a True Prophet of God, from a False prophet.
Why is it such a difficult to answer.
Why not just list all the hundreds of prophecies in the quran, that prove it is from God, since ONLY God knows the beginning from the ends. And no twickster spirit knows this information
Why not state verses from the Quran where Muhammad give detailed proof that he is from God
Why not list the thousands of times that God s personal name is mensioned in the Quran.
There are many ways this question can be answered without the constent avoidance.
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It seems this is a difficult question for everone here. So far all posts have been the same with avoiding or unable to answer the question.
This is because you are avoiding or unable to grasp the answers given forth.
It's a straight forward question in two parts
It's a straight forward answer in one part
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How do you know the spirit who spoke to Mihammad was in fact a spirit from God. What tests have you been told about to determine whether a spirir is or is not from God
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How do you know muhammad was a TRUE prophet and not someone who just declared himself to be a Prophet. What tests have you been told about in the Quran to determine a True Prophet of God, from a False prophet.
The answer to your two parts relates in one What the Quran reveals, that is, its MESSAGE, cannot be anything other than the spirit of God. The TEST is in reading, understanding and contemplating on its MESSAGE. As I mentioned earlier
Have you noticed the "tricksters" of bible, not one but many. And the same applies to talmud and ahadiths. See the difference???
Why is it such a difficult to answer.
Simply because it is such a difficult to make you understand the answer.
Why not just list all the hundreds of prophecies in the quran, that prove it is from God, since ONLY God knows the beginning from the ends. And no twickster spirit knows this information.
Why not state verses from the Quran where Muhammad give detailed proof that he is from God.
That would be the entire Quran.
Why not list the thousands of times that God s personal name is mensioned in the Quran.
God doesn't have different personal names to suit various cults.
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Peace all,
1.. How do you know the spirit who spoke to Mihammad was in fact a spirit from God. What tests have you been told about to determine whether a spirir is or is not from God
This question is invalid due to the simple fact that you are totally clueless as to who Muhammad really is. All of your knowledge of Muhammad stems from traditional Islam which already puts you on the wrong track.
2.. How do you know muhammad was a TRUE prophet and not someone who just declared himself to be a Prophet. What tests have you been told about in the Quran to determine a True Prophet of God, from a False prophet.
This is an extention of the first issue above. Please read this verse carefully
Muhammad IS NOT the father of any of your men, but HE IS a Messenger of Allah and the seal of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
(Quran, 3340)Believe me, if you knew anything about the arabic language you would know that this is the correct translation of this verse.
Why not just list all the hundreds of prophecies in the quran, that prove it is from God, since ONLY God knows the beginning from the ends. And no twickster spirit knows this information
2312-14
2130
1024
395
7930
2788
6125
4111
5345-46Why not state verses from the Quran where Muhammad give detailed proof that he is from God
This is another invalid and subjective question because what is acceptable as proof to some people will not be accepted as proof to others. Also, if a person's mind is made up either way, no amount of proof will change his or her position. The only proof that people like Apple Pie, Ali Sina and yourself would ever consider is if GOD drops scripture from the sky directly into your lap.
Why not list the thousands of times that God s personal name is mensioned in the Quran.
Here is where your ignorance truly shines, so please allow me to educate you on this.
You and I have personal names because we are not a unique species. There are Billions of Human Beings on this planet called earth and personal names are just one of the many tools used to identify each one of us.
There is Only ONE GOD!! Because of this, He does not need a personal name. He has taken on the title of Allah for Himself, He is The Deity. He is not "A" deity nor is He "A" God. He is The Deity, He is The GOD. Because there is only one of Him, He doesn't need a name because He is Truly and literally unique.
You and I on the other hand, we are not unique. There is not only one of us. There are billions of us (as human beings). So you and I have need of personal names to establish our personal identities.
Now as for your question to list thousands of times that His personal name is mentioned, as I just pointed out He has the title/description of Allah...."THE" God or "THE" Deity and this description IS in fact listed numerous times in the quran.
In my next post, I'd like to return the scriptural scrutiny.
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Salaam People,
Okay albion, let's keep this discussion going shall we? There's a chance that the moderators will tell me to either stay on course of this thread or start a new thread. The reason I'm posting this in this thread is because it is in this thread that you've aksed questions and placed the quran under scrutiny. I wished to do the same here with the bible.
Question One Why isn't there a Gospel according to Jesus?? The four gospels of the bible speak ofJesus in the third person!! There is not one single verse in the entire bible that is authored by Jesus and where he is speaking in first person narrative.
Question TwoDoes The Bible contain what is called a Falsification Test? Is there anything in the Bible that would prove you are wrong if I could prove to you that it exists....anything?
Let me answer that question for you my friend. The answer is clearly NO!!! The Bible does not present any inner mechanism that will allow others to find falsehood in it and prove the Bible wrong. However, The Quran Does!!
It's in Chapter 4, verse 82
Do they not consider The Quran? Had it been from any other than GOD, they would have found in it MUCH DISCREPENCY.
Discrepency...meaning any contradictions and/or errors. Not to mention obvious lies and untruths.
So any word of GOD (even an Inspired word of GOD) cannot and should not contain ANY errors OR contradictions!! Am I correct?? So let us put the bible to the test.
Question Three How do you explain these blatant contradictions in the book that you follow? (Any references you see where there is the emoticon with sunglasses on, that is the number eight. example....if you see something that says (John 1, you know that it is John, Chapter one, verse eight.)
*Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel. GOD or Satan?
GOD did (2 samuel 241)
Satan did (I Chronicles 2 11) How on earth can The Word of GOD confuse Satan with the Author of The Word of GOD??!!*GOD sent His prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
Seven (2 Samuel 2413)
Three (I Chronicles 2112)*When did David bring the ark of the convenant to Jerusalem?Before defeating the Philistines or After defeating them?
After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)*How may pairs of clean animals did GOD tell Noah to take into the Ark?
Two (Genesis 619, 20)
Seven (72). However, despite this clear instruction from GOD, only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 78-9)*Ezra 264 and Nehemiah 766 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows
29,818 (Ezra)
31,089 (Nehemiah)*Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?
Yes (Joshua 1023, 40)
No (Joshua 1563) Hhhmmm....two contradictions in the same book. Very intriguing.*Jesus decended from which son of David?
Solomon (Matthew 16)
Nathan (Luke 331)*Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?
Yes (Matthew II 14, 1710-13)
No (John 119-21)*How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?
By a revelation from Heaven (Matthew 1617)
His brother Andrew told him (John 141)*Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?
By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 418-22)
On the banks of river Jordan (John 142). AFTER THAT, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 143)*Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?
Yes (Mark 6
No (Matthew 109, Luke 93)Here's a really challenging one for you
*According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?"If I bear witness to myself, my testimony Is Not true." (John 531)
"Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony IS true." (John 814) I can't wait to see your response to this one as well as the next one.....*Did Jesus bear his own cross?
Yes (John 1917)
No (Matthew 2731-32)How about this one......
*Did Jesus say anything secretly?No. "I have said nothing secretly." (John 1820)
Yes. "He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything" (Mark 434). The disciples asked him "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." (Matthew 13 10-11)
*Where was Jesus at the Sixth Hour on the Day of the crucifixion?
On the cross (Mark 1523)
In Pilate's Court (John 1914)*How did Judas die?
After he threw the money into the temple he went away amd hanged himself (Matthew 275)
After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 11
*Why is the Field called "Field of Blood"?
Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27
Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 119)*Is the law of Moses useful?
Yes. "All scripture is...profitable..." (2 Timothy 316)
No. "...A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness..." (Hebrews 71*Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collector's office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?
Matthew (Matthew 99)
Levi (Mark 214; Luke 527)*Did Jesus pray to the heavenly father to prevent the crucifixion?
Yes (Matthew 2639; Mark 1436; Luke 2242)
No (John 1227)*Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 217)
However, Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 55)
*What was the purpose for which the women went to Jesus' tomb?
To anoint Jesus' body with spices (Mark 161; Luke 2355 to 241)
To see the tomb. Nothing about spices mentioned here (Matthew 281)
For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices has been done before the Sabbath (John 201)I have a fourth and final question for you
*Does every man sin?
Yes. "There is no man who does not sin." (I Kings 846; see also 2 Chronicles 636; Proverbs 209; Ecclesiastes 720; and I John 18-10)
"If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (I John 1
No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of GOD. "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God. (I John 51)
"No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God." (I John 39)
My fourth question is which one of these statements is the correct one?? They both cannot be correct....they are in 100% total contradiction of each other. So which one is true and which one is false?
Peace,
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Salam Damon...excellent points.
If you don't mind, I'd like to add one. It's often discussed in Bible classes and usually involves lots of complicated explanations that never seem to quite fit. That is the contradiction between the Book of James and Paul's comments in Romans.
James 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
But Paul directly contradicts in this in Romans by saying that man is saved by faith alone. No works are needed.The controversy over this has even led, in the past, to discussions about whether or not the Book of James should be removed from the Bible. Now, why should one of the Gospels be removed in favor of the writings of someone who used to stone Christians and ended up making so many concessions to the pagan Gentiles that he found himself in disagreement with Peter and Barnabas?
The Quran is consistent with James on this issue, which is consistent with Abraham, Moses, and David to name a few.
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Salaamun alaikum,
An analogy is called for here. Lets say Muhammad ibn Abdullah was a salesman and the product he was bringing was al-quraan. How do I know he's not cheating me? Well, if he was true, then his PRODUCT must be true.
His product doesn't need any extraneous texts to verify itself. Rather it says
Soon will We show them OUR SIGNS IN THE HORIZONS AND IN THIER SOULS, until it becomes manifest to them that this is THE TRUTH. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things? (41/53)
Al-Quraan gives every kind of example (kulli mathaal- 17/89) to humankind. It challenges humankind to bring a message like it.
No, we don't need angels to bring the message or the son of God to die for us. Rather, we have a detailed map of the human condition and the choice on whether we want to walk the path or conceal it (kufr).
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Do they not consider The Quran? Had it been from any other than GOD, they would have found in it MUCH DISCREPENCY.
Discrepency...meaning any contradictions and/or errors. Not to mention obvious lies and untruths.
So any word of GOD (even an Inspired word of GOD) cannot and should not contain ANY errors OR contradictions!! Am I correct??.
Thank you for opening Pandora's Box Damon, your a good friend. This will take many posts to deal with all the contradictions errors in the quran so I will start with a few and add to them over the comming weeks
The Day of Judgement.. To Speak or Not to speak.
.. neither will they question one another.
.. and they will turn to one another, and question one another.
Did the Injil come after Moses or before
Allah talks to Moses and says
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own, in the Taurat and the Gospel
Allah is telling Moses about what is already written in the Torah and Gospel. We all know this is wrong because the Injil wasn't given to Jesus untill about 1000 yrs after.
Jesus will goto hell according to one verse in the Quran
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
According to ALL muslims, christians worship Jesus. And according to 2198 the object/person of worship goes to hell. This contradicts 4158 that says Jesus was Raised upto God.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself
Allah can have a Son.. No Allah can't have a son
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
6101 leaves out ANY possiblity of haveing a son. Wait maybe Allah has changed his mind and he could have a son
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
ALL Muslims goto Hell.. No Wait Matrys Don't goto Hell
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell)
Wait Martyrs wont..
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord
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Wow. That's quite a collection of pieces taken out of context.
So...skipping over this....I've been making my way through the threads here, but maybe someone can tell me if there's a discussion anywhere about 1971. Especially in regard to whether it is "approaching" or "seeing" or "passing through" hell. I find this ayat interesting when compared with the Catholic view of purgatory.
Peace.
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This will take many posts to deal with all the contradictions errors in the quran so I will start with a few and add to them over the comming weeks
That's quite comical. I am now going to expose your massive ignorance and your feeble attempts to erect ideas in the quran that don't even exist....all for the sake of pretending that you see error or contradiction in it.
The Day of Judgement.. To Speak or Not to speak.
.. neither will they question one another.
.. and they will turn to one another, and question one another.
If you are going to try to quote from the quran, you need to either learn Quranic Arabic or (at the very least) utilize many different translations. It is painfully obvious that you have not made use of either of these suggestions.
Fa-'izaa nufikha fi Ssuuri falaaa 'ansaaba baynahum Yawma 'izinwwa laa yatasaaa 'aluun
When the horn is blown, no relations among them will exist on that day, nor will they care about one another
(23101)It simply means that every human being that day will only be concerned about his or her own fate and will not be concerned with the fate of any other on that day...not even for one's own parents.
This goes to show how crooked you truly are. 23101 is talking about The Last Day!! The day that the horn is blown, whereas 3727 is talking about The Day of Judgement which takes place well after the trumpet is blown. Make that strike one for you. Let us move on.
Did the Injil come after Moses or before
Allah talks to Moses and says
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own, in the Taurat and the Gospel
Allah is telling Moses about what is already written in the Torah and Gospel. We all know this is wrong because the Injil wasn't given to Jesus untill about 1000 yrs after.
Once again your ignorance is shining through. First of all, even the staunchest of Anti-Islamists all realize that case histories of the past and divine instruction are mingled together in the same passages. Verses 157 and 158 of chapter are not even dealing with Moses or his community. Those verses are divine instruction to the believers who have witnessed the prophet through whom the quran was revealed. Try reading it again. Verse 158 begins with the command verb Qul which is a commandment to proclaim. This commandment is reserved ALL THROUGHOUT THE QURAN strictly for the one through whom the quran is being revealed.
ALSO (and this is the most important part) the prophet of verses 157 and 158 is refered to as Nnabiyy IL-Ummiya....The GENTILE PROPHET....one who does not come from Judaic/Hebrew Line of prophethood. Obviously this isn't talking about Moses. Second of all, these verses have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. How did Jesus even become involved in that scenario? Make that strike two.
Jesus will goto hell according to one verse in the Quran
Surely you and what you worship besides Allah are the firewood of hell; to it you shall come.
According to ALL muslims, christians worship Jesus. And according to 2198 the object/person of worship goes to hell. This contradicts 4158 that says Jesus was Raised upto God.
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself
This shows that you are 100% Dishonest!! And I'm not the least bit surprised. You know full well that 2198 doesn't even remotely allude to Jesus, son of Mary. Keep everything in the context which they were revealed in. I told you your ignorance of Arabic is what's blinding you as much as your general spiritual ignorance.
'Innakum wa maa ta'buduuna min duunillahi hasabu Jahannum 'Antum lahaa waariduun.
You and that which YOU SERVE beside GOD are fuel for Hell. In it you will abide.
(219'ibaada means to serve NOT worship. 'Abid means servant or slave. Ta'abuduuna does not mean that which you worship...it means that which you SERVE. Learn some 'Arabic if your going to try to critisize an 'Arabic work. And the verse expresses how your actions and deeds which you perform according to your own selfish desires instead of according to GOD and what He wants of us will land you a cozy spot in Hell. That's strike three. You're already out.
Allah can have a Son.. No Allah can't have a son
How can He have a son when He has no consort?
6101 leaves out ANY possiblity of haveing a son. Wait maybe Allah has changed his mind and he could have a son
If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
First of all, where in these statements is there a contradiction?? On the one hand, one statement says that He DOES NOT have a son. On the other hand, the other statement says that IF HE WANTED TO HAVE A SON He could do so by a certain means. But never mind that, let's look at these verses more closely.
6101 clearly illustrates the ludicrousness of the Jesus is GOD's son blasphemy by explaining, quite simply, that GOD is the sole creator of the entire universe and everything in it. He has absolutely no partners to speak of. So why one earth would He choose to have a son without choosing a partner?? 6101 is a logic issue which blatantly escapes you.
394 starts off with IF GOD WANTED TO HAVE A SON... Why don't you repeat that 7 word phrase to yourself a few times. The two key words are IF and WANTED. Your self-imposed claim that 6101 rules out ANY possibilty of Him having a son will do you no good against one who knows how to exercise logic and make proper use of the language. I can guarantee you that no one with common sense will come to this conclusion which you are trying to forcefully establish. 6101 doesn't rule out the possibility of having a son, it rules out that He Does have a son. Strike four.
ALL Muslims goto Hell.. No Wait Matrys Don't goto Hell
There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell)
Wait Martyrs wont..
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord
Read the two verses before it (verses 69 and 70). These verses make it very clear who it is that will see the Hell as described in 1971. You actually don't need to know the 'Arabic to understand it. You do need honesty and common sense though. That's totally up to you as to whether or not you are willing to exercise logic. I will help you though. I will post the verses for you. Watch closely now
Then We will pick out from each group the most ardent opponent of the Most Gracious.
We know full well those who are most deserving of burning therein.
(1969-70)I can assure you that 1971 is talking about those people that GOD had already picked out in verses 69 and 70. You should know better by now than to try and isolate single verses out of context. Strike five.
By the way, you still haven't refutted the contradictions that I posted. And you still haven't answered my question as to whether or not every man sins. What's the matter? I will quote one of your earlier posts in this thread
Why is it such a difficult to answer.
There are many ways this question can be answered without the constent avoidance.
I eagerly await your response to my earlier inquiries.
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Peace sytalls,
maybe someone can tell me if there's a discussion anywhere about 1971. Especially in regard to whether it is "approaching" or "seeing" or "passing through" hell. I find this ayat interesting when compared with the Catholic view of purgatory.
1971 is addressing the ones that GOD has already hand picked in the two verses preceding verse 71 (69 and 70.)
Peace.
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Peace Damon...and thanks. Yes, that's the way I read it, as well. There's a clear distinction between the obedient group and the ones who preferred the life of this world.
But I really wasn't interested in albion's comments, more in learning whether there was a discussion with others elsewhere. Perhaps with those who don't promote the feeling of trying to carry water in a bucket with holes. Or is this a newbie rite of passage?
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Salaam Albion,
I believe MQ gave an answer that mine would have been similar to. His is an analogy, but it makes a point about how one can determine the authenticity of alquran by its verification and authenticity . I am awaiting your reply to his statement. Thanks.
Joe
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another thing about 2198
Both you and what you serve besides The God shall be fuel for Hell; you will enter it. (2198 )
if you look a few verses later
If these were gods, then they would not have entered it! And all will abide therein.
They will be breathing heavily in it, and they will not be heard therein.
As for those who deserved good from Us, they will be removed far away from it. (2199-101) -
MIRACLES ARE NOT A TEST
Matthew 2424
24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.Here is the test of a true book.
Matthew720
Therefore by their fruits you will know them.482 Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, then they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.
Quran - no scientific errors, no contradictions
Bible - full of scientific impossibilities, 50000 contradictions/errors by some counts, and porn