Inheritance according to Qur?an
-
In summary In verse 11, there is no spouse, while in verse 12, there is a spouse, verse 176 tells how to make a taksim when there are only siblings .of the deceased
The division of inheritance realised by Allah is so simple and perfect.
I think you are interpreting the verses as exclusive. If the verses are interpreted as exclusive, then in the case where there were only sisters who were beneficiaries the debts and bequests would not be paid.
I think that it is appropriate to interpret them as being consistent with each other. If the verses are interpreted as consistent, then debts and non-prejudical bequests are always paid first, before any shares are paid.
-
Numbers 278-11
Interesting on Torah need to check Hebrew.
quote author=Theo link=msg=443291 date=1710294697
For the Quran the beneficiaries would be
verse 11
1 if only one child 1/2 to children, 1/6 to each parentNo 1/2 to daughter, 1/2 remainder to son
Yes 1/6 to parent, 5/6 remainder to children2 if two or more children 2/3 to children, 1/6 to each parent
No 2/3 to three+ daughters, 1/3 remainder to son
Yes 1/6 each to parents, 2/3 remainder to children3 if no children
3.1 if no siblings mother 1/3
3.2 if any siblings mother 1/6Yes 1/3 to mother, 2/3 remainder to father
Yes 1/6 to mother, remainder to sibling/s
Siblings only inherit kalala case if no father/grandfatherverse 12
4 if no children 1/2 to husband or 1/4 to wifeYes although slightly different wife 1/4 is always fixed or taken mimma/from what left and husband 1/2 ma/what left after paying off mother 1/3 first remainder to father for example
1/4 wife 1/3 mother 5/12 remainder to father
1/3 mother 1/3 husband (1/2 * 2/3) 1/3 remainder to father4.1 if no parents and no more than one brother or sister 1/6 to brother and 1/6 to sister
No that’s Kalala case (fatherless) with child
1/6 mother 1/4 husband 1/6 sibling 5/12 remainder to children
1/6 mother 1/8 wife 1/6 sibling 13/24 remainder to children4.2 if no parents and two sisters or two brothers
No father only, again Kalala case with children
1/6 mother 1/3 siblings 1/2 remainder to children5 if children 1/4 to husband or 1/8 to wife
1/4 husband 3/4 remainder to children
1/8 wife 7/8 remainder to childrenverse 176
6 if no children or parentsNo father! Kalala case no child
6.1 only one sibling 1/2 to siblings
No 1/2 to sister, 1/2 remainder to brother
6.2 two or more siblings 2/3 to siblings
No 2/3 to two sisters, 1/3 to brother
Priority matters because if a wife dies and she had two parents and two children then the shares would be
2/3 to children
1/6 to father
1/6 to motherMath is correct!
1/4 to husband (not fulfilled because children and parents have priority)
No 1/4 husband 1/3 parents 5/12 remainder to children (read my previous posts how to distribute if males and females)
-
Using your example from the Hadith, but with a wife, the remaining 3/8 would be discretionary, right?
1/2 daughter
1/8 wife
3/8 discretionaryNo 1/8 to wife, 7/8 remainder to children
That is be they daughter/s or son/s
There’s never too much or too littleLikewise, notice daughter/s in 411 are not alone ie 2/3 and 1/2 otherwise no instructions for what to do if exactly two?
Hence proportions are given
2 daughters 1+ sons
3+ daughters 1+ sons
1 daughter 1+ sonsLikewise 4176 fatherless IF no child
1 sister 1+ brothers
2 sisters 1+ brothers
3+ sisters 1+ brothersNotice 4176 sisters are not alone ie 1/2 and 2/3 otherwise no instructions on what to do if 3+ sisters?
See disturbing mixed siblings and children.
Summary
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg443267
Salaam!
-
For the Quran the beneficiaries would be
verse 11
1 if only one child 1/2 to children, 1/6 to each parentNo 1/2 to daughter, 1/2 remainder to son
Yes 1/6 to parent, 5/6 remainder to childrenNo 1/2 to daughter, 1/2 remainder to son
Impossible because there is only one child in this case.
Yes 1/6 to parent, 5/6 remainder to children
Your solution contradicts Surah 411, 5/6 is not 1/2.
Allah instructs you concerning your children for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers , for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. an obligation by Allah. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
-
Likewise, notice daughter/s in 411 are not alone ie 2/3 and 1/2 otherwise no instructions for what to do if exactly two?
The translations are not consistent about what happens for two daughters
Sahih International if there are daughters, two or more
Pickthall if there be women more than two
Yusuf Ali if only daughters, two or more
Shakir if they are more than two females
Muhammad Sarwar If there are more than two girls
Mohsin Khan if (there are) only daughters, two or more
Arberry if they be women above twohttps//corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=11
But the translations are consistent for 4176, two or more means they get 2/3. So to be consistent, surah 411 should be interpreted so that two or more means that they get 2/3.
Sahih International But if there are two sisters , they will have two-thirds of what he left
https//corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=176
-
The translations are not consistent about what happens for two daughters
Sahih International if there are daughters, two or more
Pickthall if there be women more than two
Yusuf Ali if only daughters, two or more
Shakir if they are more than two females
Muhammad Sarwar If there are more than two girls
Mohsin Khan if (there are) only daughters, two or more
Arberry if they be women above twohttps//corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=11
But the translations are consistent for 4176, two or more means they get 2/3. So to be consistent, surah 411 should be interpreted so that two or more means that they get 2/3.
Sahih International But if there are two sisters , they will have two-thirds of what he left
https//corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=4&verse=176
Translations are inconsistent because they haven’t studied carefully and often copy each other’s errors which propagated over time.
Over two ie three or more!
411
Fa'in - so if
Kunna - they are (feminine pl. ie 3+)
Nisā'an - womenfolk (any age ie 3+)
Fawqa - above (over or greater than)
Athnatayni - two feminine
Falahunna - so for them (feminine pl. ie 3+)
Thuluthā - third dual (2/3)Exactly two!
4176
Fa'in - so if
Kānatā - feminine dual
Athnatayni - two (feminine)
Falahumā - so to them dual
Ath-Thuluthāni - the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) -
Why do you say that?
If inheritance $1 million dollars
$1 million dollars is distributedExample
1/4 ($250k) to husband 412
1/6 ($166.67k) to mother 411
1/6 ($166.67k) to sister 412
1/6 ($166.67k) to brother 412
1/4 ($250k) remaining to children$250k to son/s
$250k to daughter/s$250k to two daughters and 1+ sons (411 2.0x to male/s)
$250k to three+ daughters and 1+ sons (411)
see distributions posted prior.$250k to one daughter and 1+ sons (411 share equally)
Salaam!
-
Translations are inconsistent because they haven’t studied carefully and often copy each other’s errors which propagated over time.
Over two ie three or more!
411
Fa'in - so if
Kunna - they are (feminine pl. ie 3+)
Nisā'an - womenfolk (any age ie 3+)
Fawqa - above (over or greater than)
Athnatayni - two feminine
Falahunna - so for them (feminine pl. ie 3+)
Thuluthā - third dual (2/3)Exactly two!
4176
Fa'in - so if
Kānatā - feminine dual
Athnatayni - two (feminine)
Falahumā - so to them dual
Ath-Thuluthāni - the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3)You are right, more than two is correct for 411.
https//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=11#(4111)
The question then becomes what share do two women get?
411
one woman 1/2
two women discretionary
three or more women 2/34176
one female 1/2
two females 2/3
three or more females discretionarySo for consistency
one 1/2
two 2/3
three or more 2/3 -
If inheritance $1 million dollars
$1 million dollars is distributedExample
I was looking for a reason for the rule, but you gave me an example of the application of the rule.
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
Surah 2111The Quran endorses the Torah and the gospels. In England a Christian interpretation of these became the common law. One of the commentators of the common law said that the law is nothing but reason. A maxim of the common law is Baron Parke's rule. To paraphrase, he said that an interpretation that is absurd, repugnant, or inconsistent is not the preferred interpretation.
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.
Surah 482 -
I was looking for a reason for the rule, but you gave me an example of the application of the rule.
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."
Surah 2111The Quran endorses the Torah and the gospels. In England a Christian interpretation of these became the common law. One of the commentators of the common law said that the law is nothing but reason. A maxim of the common law is Baron Parke's rule. To paraphrase, he said that an interpretation that is absurd, repugnant, or inconsistent is not the preferred interpretation.
Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.
Surah 482That's a different topic; although the Torah, wherein (not all) is the word of Allah, and the Gospel of Isa (ie what he said) some of which may contain his words in the Gospels according to Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John (unknown who these people are), not according to Paul, which contradicts the Torah and many sayings attributed to Isa in the Gospels.
-
You are right, more than two is correct for 411.
https//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=11#(4111)
The question then becomes what share do two women get?
411
one woman 1/2
two women discretionary
three or more women 2/34176
one female 1/2
two females 2/3
three or more females discretionarySo for consistency
one 1/2
two 2/3
three or more 2/3They are not alone! Two women or any number if alone get the same as two or any number of men if alone and they share equally, as any singular entity - mother, father, husband, wife/wives, daughter(s), son(s), sister(s), brother(s) - receives the entirety after will or debt.
If two or more entities, their prescribed amounts are given, with one entity always variable (unstated) receiving the remainder.
Examples
1/3 mother 2/3 remainder to father (both parents alive)
1/6 mother 5/6 remainder to son/s
1/6 father 5/6 remainder to daughter/s1/4 wife 3/4 remainder to mother (both parents not alive)
1/2 husband 1/2 remainder to father1/3 mother 1/4 wife 5/12 remainder to father
1/3 mother 1/3 (1/2*2/3) husband 1/3 remainder to fatherand so forth…
411 pertains to children when mixed
2 females and 1+ males (2.0x to male/s)
3+ females and 1+ males (see summary)
1 female and 1+ males (share equally)4176 pertains to siblings when mixed
1 female and 1+ males (share equally)
2 females and 1+ males (share equally)
3+ females and 1+ males (2.0x to male/s)see summary
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.msg443267#msg443267 -
That's a different topic; although the Torah, wherein (not all) is the word of Allah, and the Gospel of Isa (ie what he said) some of which may contain his words in the Gospels according to Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John (unknown who these people are), not according to Paul, which contradicts the Torah and many sayings attributed to Isa in the Gospels.
OK, but you still haven't said what the reason was.
-
They are not alone!
There is nothing from the context that says whether they are alone or not.
If they are alone, then there are no other beneficiaries and so there is no reason why thy should not get the full amount rather than 2/3.
If they are not alone, then there are other possibilities, for example
daughters 2/3
mother 1/6
discretionary 1/6or
daughters 2/3
wife 1/8
discretionary 5/24 -
There is nothing from the context that says whether they are alone or not.
If they are alone, then there are no other beneficiaries and so there is no reason why thy should not get the full amount rather than 2/3.
If they are not alone, then there are other possibilities, for example
daughters 2/3
mother 1/6
discretionary 1/6or
daughters 2/3
wife 1/8
discretionary 5/24There's nothing discretionary; discretion lies in the writing of a will. When reading the text, pay careful attention, as it precisely pertains to your children, i.e., males and females, and provides the proportions. Furthermore, if spouse shares are fixed, then the remainder goes to sons or daughters, etc. Otherwise, you'll encounter numerous math contradictions.
-
OK, but you still haven't said what the reason was.
Reason for what, exactly?
Perhaps restate your question more clearly.
What are you asking and why? -
There's nothing discretionary; discretion lies in the writing of a will.
There is discretion in the execution of the will because sometimes there is no clear description of how the entire amount should be shared.
For, example if a man dies with $11,000 and his will says $1000 to the mosque and the rest according to the Quran, what amount should his three daughters get, and what amount should his wife get? There are no other relatives.
-
From my #942, I asked you for why you said that "There's never too much or too little".
If the shares are preciously allocated to distribute exactly 100% there is never a surplus or shortfall where people would wrongly apply a fix using algebra and not give the exact amounts stated. Likewise, I’ve already explained if they are alone there are no instructions for exactly two daughters 411 or for three+ sisters 4176.
In addition, if person died no will who’s to decide who gets the remainder or who gets bumped in shortfall? You can look up the Hadith where Umar changed his mind about two half brothers and full brothers etc.
-
There is discretion in the execution of the will because sometimes there is no clear description of how the entire amount should be shared.
For, example if a man dies with $11,000 and his will says $1000 to the mosque and the rest according to the Quran, what amount should his three daughters get, and what amount should his wife get? There are no other relatives.
$1000
1/8 to wife, 7/8 remainder to children
1/4 to wife, 3/4 remainder to siblings
1/4 to wife, 3/4 remainder to parentAnd so forth…