The Quran a failed book written by Men
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Here is the true narrative that both Traditional Muslims and Jay Smith are not able to refute in their so called debate
True Islam is not the religion of the Traditional Muslims not is it an identity of any other religions like Christians , Judaism or any man made religion.Islam is an attitude of mind and a way of life towards GOD our creator. It is GOD s only "religion" subscribed through all His prophets and messengers throughout the humans existence.
Mr Jay is right to criticise Traditional Islam that follows men s books -Hadiths- and contradicts /misinterprets Qoran. They have put themselves in a dire situation with their false interpretations and nonsense rules full of contradictions, hearsay and fables. They use Qoran for recitations and ceremonies and ignore or are ignorant of its true message.
Mr jay himself isolate verses out of context and claims he has Scientific evidence of a made up history and origin of Qoran.
Is he refuting Qoran and true Islam? He only thinks he is. he has no intention of studying Qoran sincerely, with honesty and solid knowledge. His agenda is to oppose and refute Traditional Islam.
Why are you putting true Islam and traditional Islam in the same religion brother centi50?
As far as I am concerned Jay Smith , his supporters along with traditional Islam and its supporters are both debating false religions. false history and false narratives. Nothing to do with GOD s true religion.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
He naively ignores as to what is Forensic Linguistics while building up his basic argument and stance.
Hey! I saw a post from you with some lovely girls and all of a sudden you talk about Quran argument. You must be a robot. Don't you? Or you are a psychopath? confused
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Hey! I saw a post from you with some lovely girls and all of a sudden you talk about Quran argument. You must be a robot. Don't you? Or you are a psychopath? confused
Yes, in this forum we can meet different types of personalities
And the new one is the "Arab" jinn! ;D -
As a Muslim, I think we should respond to some important issues raised by them
AND as a start, I have contacted them and conveyed two brief messages for their attention/consideration, titled- The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra
- Al Quran is the word of God
"Information Only"
Below are the copy paste of my messages to both of them
- The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra
To Mr. Jay Smith/Al Fadi
I have seen a lot of Dan Gibson and your videos on the issue of the Masjidil Haram/Qibla during and after Muhammad's time
I believe you are very true that Makkah al-Mukarramah in Saudi Arabia is not the original place of Mecca/Becca where Muhammad was born
It is Petra in Jordan and the one in Makkah al-Mukarramah is a fake and unauthorised by GodI just watched your video "#28 FINALLY A Rock Inscription proves Mecca was "BUILT" late!" and this information is a great discovery!
Thanks for the video!Note
If you don't mind, please go to this link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.0You will find that some Quranists (GOD alone, Quran alone) believed the authorised original Masjidil Haram/Qibla is situated in Petra, Jordan
AND the shift to unauthorised site is prophesied in the Quran via verses 9107-110
Please see #Reply 15-18 on the link!9107 And there are those who have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Their buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.The mathematical analysis of verses 9107-110 proves that your findings on this "shifting" issue of Masjidil Haram/Qibla is very correct!
Anyway, this message is just for information only!Thank you.
Glory be to God!
To be continued ...
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- Al Quran is the word of God
Al Quran is not a man made book.
It is a divine revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
There is a challenge for the people in doubt.
Please see 223-24223 If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against God, if you are truthful.
224 If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.Nowadays, there ware findings by people from "Masjid Tucson" about the miracle-19 of surah Al-Fatehah i.e. surah 1
Please see this links
(1) Bismillah with in-built code 19 ... https//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp/bp.pdf
(2) Al-Fatehah with in-built code 19 ... http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp2/BeyondProbability_TheKey_AlFatehah.pdf?
(Beyond Probability, God's Message in Mathematics, The Opening Chapter of the Quran, Sura 1 Al-Fatehah)The question arises from this discovery
Do we think the phenomenon of 19 denominators in Bismillah (the first verse of surah Al-Fatehah) and the whole surah of Al-Fatehah happen by chance (coincidently happen)!
OR are they designed by the Omniscient and the Most Wise!Why number 19!
7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)(1) to disturb the disbelievers,
(2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.7435 This is one of the great ones (miracles).
7436 A warning to the human race.
7437 For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.For information only!
Thank you.Best regards,
shukriEnds.
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- Al Quran is the word of God
Al Quran is not a man made book.
It is a divine revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
There is a challenge for the people in doubt.
Please see 223-24223 If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against God, if you are truthful.
224 If you cannot do this - and you can never do this - then beware of the Hellfire, whose fuel is people and rocks; it awaits the disbelievers.Nowadays, there ware findings by people from "Masjid Tucson" about the miracle-19 of surah Al-Fatehah i.e. surah 1
Please see this links
(1) Bismillah with in-built code 19 ... https//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp/bp.pdf
(2) Al-Fatehah with in-built code 19 ... http//www.masjidtucson.org/publications/books/bp2/BeyondProbability_TheKey_AlFatehah.pdf?
(Beyond Probability, God's Message in Mathematics, The Opening Chapter of the Quran, Sura 1 Al-Fatehah)The question arises from this discovery
Do we think the phenomenon of 19 denominators in Bismillah (the first verse of surah Al-Fatehah) and the whole surah of Al-Fatehah happen by chance (coincidently happen)!
OR are they designed by the Omniscient and the Most Wise!Why number 19!
7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)(1) to disturb the disbelievers,
(2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.7435 This is one of the great ones (miracles).
7436 A warning to the human race.
7437 For those among you who wish to advance, or regress.For information only!
Thank you.Best regards,
shukriEnds.
Don't be so kind to hypocrites and they don't deserve your kind words, and they must be mocking at your question.
Masjid Al Haram was neither in Mecca nor Petra and even if I tell you where it was it won't make any difference to you. Just adhere to verses of Allah and let Him guide you and don't go after weak people like Smith and his sucker.Just rely on Allah and live your life. You and your 19 are confusing you. Concentrate on clear verses and live the life. Would you? Which of your ancestors benefited from 19? You seem like a crazy mathematician, and you accept someone who saw a dream in the Masjid Al Haram of Modern days. Rashed Kalifa was lifted to Heaven from Mecca, and is that what you believe? rotfl rotfl Some peoples' craziness never diminishes. At the same time, you say to these two hypocrites that Petra was the true location. Are you mad?
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Don't be so kind to hypocrites and they don't deserve your kind words, and they must be mocking at your question.
16125 You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.
Masjid Al Haram was neither in Mecca nor Petra and even if I tell you where it was it won't make any difference to you.
O good genie
Where is it?Which of your ancestors benefited from 19?
Every one is benefited
Even ahlul-kitab (followers of the scripture) during Muhammad's time knew the significance of number 19 in God's scripture.The proof
1094 If you (Muhammad) have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.
7430 Over it is nineteen.1094 --> 10 + 94 = 104
7430 --> 74 + 30 = 104AND
1094 --> 1+0 + 9+4 = 14
7430 --> 7+4 + 3+0 = 14(Indication The verse 1094 is related to verse 7430)
OR you can go to this link for additional info
https//whoisourcreator.blogspot.com/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html
https//submission.org/Short_History_of_Miracle.htmlYou seem like a crazy mathematician, and you accept someone who saw a dream in the Masjid Al Haram of Modern days. Rashed Kalifa was lifted to Heaven from Mecca, and is that what you believe? Some peoples' craziness never diminishes.
Please differentiate the words "in the Masjid Al Haram" and "during his Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca"
Are you sure he saw a dream in "the Masjid Al Haram"!
https//submission.org/App2.htmlAt the same time, you say to these two hypocrites that Petra was the true location. Are you mad?
Please see the link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.10
Reply #15-18Just rely on Allah and live your life. You and your 19 are confusing you.
My Question to you
There are five objectives of number 19 in verse 7431
Which one do you belong to?7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.Thank you.
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Peace Shukri.
Please check this conversation, I have checked and agree with the refutationDan Gibson was writing half fiction and doctored Academic research.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK9jLw9v4Nw
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
16125 You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.
O good genie
Where is it?Every one is benefited
Even ahlul-kitab (followers of the scripture) during Muhammad's time knew the significance of number 19 in God's scripture.The proof
1094 If you (Muhammad) have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.
7430 Over it is nineteen.1094 --> 10 + 94 = 104
7430 --> 74 + 30 = 104AND
1094 --> 1+0 + 9+4 = 14
7430 --> 7+4 + 3+0 = 14(Indication The verse 1094 is related to verse 7430)
OR you can go to this link for additional info
https//whoisourcreator.blogspot.com/2008/09/rabbi-judah-pious-witnesses.html
https//submission.org/Short_History_of_Miracle.htmlPlease differentiate the words "in the Masjid Al Haram" and "during his Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca"
Are you sure he saw a dream in "the Masjid Al Haram"!
https//submission.org/App2.htmlPlease see the link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.10
Reply #15-18My Question to you
There are five objectives of number 19 in verse 7431
Which one do you belong to?7430 Over it is nineteen.
7431 We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (nineteen)
(a) to disturb the disbelievers,
(b) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture),
(c) to strengthen the faith of the faithful,
(d) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and
(e) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did God mean by this allegory?" God thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.Thank you.
My mind says you are a good and polite person like Japanese, but you are too much. So I give you a little respect.
Ya Halwa! Don't add words at your will to point out what is in your mind. There is no word 'KIND' in the verse 16'125.
Invite people who are unaware and what is the point of inviting those who are mocking by already knowing the verses and twisting them? Just say Salam and move on.That's lots of questions hailed at me. You think I am an encyclopedia or tireless AI. You mean No. 19 your so-called Messenger invented, or you mean about No. 19 of the verse 74'30.
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Peace Shukri.
Please check this conversation, I have checked and agree with the refutationDan Gibson was writing half fiction and doctored Academic research.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK9jLw9v4Nw
GOD bless you.
Peace.If you read my post in Reply #15-18 of this link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.10
My finding was not solely depend on Dan Gibson discovery
Also not entirely bound to the points given by the thread starter Mr. Mahdi, our quranist brother
But it related mainly to mathematical analysis of verses9107 And there are those who have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 Their buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts, until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.Peace!
Thank you. -
Thanks brother Shukri.
I was just giving you that specific information.
For me GOD is every where, it is fine to believe your way . I have not got any issue with you following according to your faculties/findings.
You seem honest and best of luck to you.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salam centi50
I have been following his videos for the past several years
I personally very appreciate his commentary on various issues about the Quran and our faith
He and his evangelist fellow Mr. Al Fadi (ex-muslim from Saudi Arabia) on some occasions has given me something to reflect about our faith/religion
Thanks a lot Mr. Jay and Mr. Fadi for your contribution!The links
Jay Smith ... https//foclonline.org/users/jay-smith
Al Fadi ... https//cirainternational.com/As a Muslim, I think we should respond to some important issues raised by them
AND as a start, I have contacted them and conveyed two brief messages for their attention/consideration, titled- The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra
- Al Quran is the word of God
I'm not a scholar to debate with them but we should convey any input/message which we think they may not be aware of!
May God show us a straight path!
All praise be to God!Thank you.
Salam bro,
You are right people in here should be able to respond to these evangelical Christians and show that they are understanding things wrong or are wrong
God bless all
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Here is the true narrative that both Traditional Muslims and Jay Smith are not able to refute in their so called debate
True Islam is not the religion of the Traditional Muslims not is it an identity of any other religions like Christians , Judaism or any man made religion.Islam is an attitude of mind and a way of life towards GOD our creator. It is GOD s only "religion" subscribed through all His prophets and messengers throughout the humans existence.
Mr Jay is right to criticise Traditional Islam that follows men s books -Hadiths- and contradicts /misinterprets Qoran. They have put themselves in a dire situation with their false interpretations and nonsense rules full of contradictions, hearsay and fables. They use Qoran for recitations and ceremonies and ignore or are ignorant of its true message.
Mr jay himself isolate verses out of context and claims he has Scientific evidence of a made up history and origin of Qoran.
Is he refuting Qoran and true Islam? He only thinks he is. he has no intention of studying Qoran sincerely, with honesty and solid knowledge. His agenda is to oppose and refute Traditional Islam.
Why are you putting true Islam and traditional Islam in the same religion brother centi50?
As far as I am concerned Jay Smith , his supporters along with traditional Islam and its supporters are both debating false religions. false history and false narratives. Nothing to do with GOD s true religion.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.Slama Gl
No brother I am not pushing Traditional Islam. But I would like to see the argument they put forward is refuted.
I don't believe in traditional Islam at all. There are very great minds in this forum who can refute these people in their channels. That's what I would love to happening
God bless you
God bless you
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"Information Only"
Below are the copy paste of my messages to both of them
- The true Mecca/Becca is in Petra
To Mr. Jay Smith/Al Fadi
I have seen a lot of Dan Gibson and your videos on the issue of the Masjidil Haram/Qibla during and after Muhammad's time
I believe you are very right that Makkah al-Mukarramah in Saudi Arabia is not the original place of Mecca/Becca where Muhammad was born
It is Petra in Jordan and the one in Makkah al-Mukarramah is a fake and unauthorised by GodI just watched your video "#28 FINALLY, A Rock Inscription Proves Mecca was "BUILT" late!" and this information is a great discovery!
Thanks for the video!Note
If you don't mind, please go to this link https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611307.0You will find that some Quranists (GOD alone, Quran alone) believed the authorised original Masjidil Haram/Qibla is situated in Petra, Jordan
AND the shift to unauthorised sites is prophesied in the Quran via verses 9107-110
Please see #Reply 15-18 on the link!9107 And some have taken a temple/masjid to do harm and cause rejection, and to divide between the believers, and as an outpost for those who fought God and His messenger before. They will swear that they only wanted to do good, and God bears witness that they are liars.
9108 Do not stand in it ever. A temple/masjid that is founded on righteousness from the first day is more worthy that you stand in it; in it are men who love to purify themselves. And God loves the purified.
9109 Is he who founds his building on obtaining righteousness from God and His acceptance better, or he who founds his building on the edge of a cliff which is about to crumble, so that it crumbled with him into the fires of Hell? And God does not guide the wicked people.
9110 The buildings that they built continue to cause doubt in their hearts until their hearts are severed. And God is Knowledgeable and wise.The mathematical analysis of verses 9107-110 proves that your findings on this "shifting" issue of Masjidil Haram/Qibla are correct!
Anyway, this message is just for information only!Thank you.
Glory be to God!
To be continued ...
Salam bro shukri,
You might want to see this channel,
https//youtu.be/WmsjGAAw4Uw
https//youtu.be/fTGxUHRfq9I
Or
https//youtube.com/@abu_ali_hail?si=I7pLV17N5AHxhhJ1
Or read the book.
Egypt knew neither Pharaoh nor Moses
https//www.amazon.com/Egypt-knew-Pharaohs-nor-Israelites-ebook/dp/B00U8VK8JE
