Meditation
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peace be upon you idolfree,
I once heard a talk where it was stated that they say the mark of the beast is "666" because we normally breath 18 breaths per second(6+6+6), which gives the emotional part of us the amount of oxygen it thrives on, just like how you must speed up your breathing to exercise and all types of ANIMATED movements. So when we slow the breath down, for example to 6 breaths per minute, we take the power away from the emotional part of us and we transcend to a higher part of us that we have forgotten about, we we are constantly aske to remember.
I think adults breath 18 breaths a minute and children 40 breaths, does that change anything in that idea?
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Peace be upon you Idris,
I think adults breath 18 breaths a minute and children 40 breaths, does that change anything in that idea?
No, if that understanding is true, then it was probably based on adults, but the main point is not counting the breaths, just the idea that one must slow down the breathing to transcend the animal nature.
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peace be upon you idolfree,
Lastly for now, it is important to stop all thoughts. Thoughts are what block your ability to "Hear God". So you can concentrate on your breathing as well as do what is called a "Mantra" based meditation, where there is a Sound chanted. I say "sound" rather that "word" because theses words have no meaning, to help us from trying to connect the word to some meaning. We must keep the left side of the brain (intellect side) busy while we use the right side of the brain(the metaphorical, imaginative, unifiying side) to ascend/climb.
i have another question regarding this part, I checked up on mantra and it was speaking about saying this wierd "sound" aloud, my basic question is does it matter whether u would say that particular meaningless sound or another meaningless sound, also how does that keep your intellect busy?
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Peace be upon you Idris,
i have another question regarding this part, I checked up on mantra and it was speaking about saying this wierd "sound" aloud, my basic question is does it matter whether u would say that particular meaningless sound or another meaningless sound
There is an argument as to why you should say certain "meaningless" sounds based on the vibration certain sounds make, but I am not prepared to discuss that further as I am still studying that myself. I was told that the words are "meaningless" so that it can keep your mind from trying to make a connection. For example, if you chanted "feline", your mind tends to start thinking about cats and so on, but if you chant "Aung" , it makes no connection to anything else. Maybe others can share thier understanding regarding this.
also how does that keep your intellect busy?
This deals with left brain activity, I will try to respond next giving more info about that.
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Pulling over from the other thread
Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Excellent info in your post as well. There are, as you probably know, many more examples like the one you gave regarding the basketball teams. I recently saw a movie/documentary called "what the BLEEP do we know". It involves quantum physicists, psychologists, etc. explaining life. One part explains a test done in Washingtion D.C. where a large group of meditators meditated on decreasing the crime level in the city. It states that the police took it for a joke but in fact, it decrased crime by 25%. The person speaking said he knew it would work because this was the 85th or so time doing it successfully.
Anyway, sometimes this sounds like "magic" , just like this reading states the rejectors would say. But it is something that we all can practice and verify for ourselves.
I am still trying to understand "chakras". Many times I have heard there are 7 chakras, but recently I was taught that there are actually 14 of them. Now I say this because I have always maintained the "7 pairs" given to us were referring to different "parts" of our spirit. It seems this might refer to chakras. Is there anything more you can offer about them? I will try to find info on the "14".
O yeah, there are 14 letters in the "letters that begint the chapters". Also, brother Ayman has also shown that they are actually WORDS, not seperated letters. So it is a wise path to investigate regarding "mantras".
Lastly, this is all so interesting because it ties links through so many behavior shaping systems(religions), all the way to the oldest recorded one , the ausarian system of Kemet.
Thank you all for continuing to add to this thread, it is very beneficial for me.
Peace to you, idolfree. And to all.
This thread seems better suited for a discussion about meditation, since Lote-tree's thread is more about techniques.
As for the 14 chakras, according to what I know of Hinduism, they correspond to the 7 upper and 7 lower worlds, which make up "the universe." Each of the 14 worlds have names and divisions for planes of existence that correspond to body, mind and soul. The 7 upper chakras are the principle chakras along the spine and up to the top of the head. The 7 lower ones are below the spine and, I think,they extend down into the ground.
For most chakra meditations, the concern is with the 7 principle chakras along the spine. For those who don't know, a chakra is often described as a center of force or a swirling energy center. Each corresponds to a certain color and vibrates at a certain frequency. When the chakras are healthy and aligned properly, energy flows through the system. Hence, the words/sounds used for chakra meditations are chosen to help energize and balance specific chakras. This is the extent of my knowledge.
That is fascinating that there are 14 designated letters in the Quran. I didn't know that! A few months back, I started using Ha-meem for a simple chanting meditation--just a sort of inspiration to try it. It's very soothing and somehow feels like I'm more connected to the proper system. Perhaps these findings by brother Ayman out the letters as words relate to our energy system somehow. Please, tell me more!
I don't see this at all as magical, since the aim is peaceful internal harmony, a balance, and not power or control. It is part of caring for the body and getting in touch with our "higher selves," to borrow from the New Age language. We have the minds to understand that these parts of Hinduism may be useful without involving false worship of a lot of Hindu gods.
I enjoy the Tao Te Chin and Patanjali's sutras, but I don't take them over the Quran. Instead, I figure they're simply teachings that had some good ideas but weren't at as high a level or as accurate as the Quran.
Same with Carlos Casteneda's books about don Juan, which could be seen as studying the manuals of the enemy. D When I read them, I always think about the sorcerers of pharaoh, and how they were bested by the Power of God, which is always far above any magic man tries to use. We ordinary mortals may try to grab power that is above and beyond comprehension for all but a few, but it is still puny in comparison to God's Might. Sort of brings home the full impact of what it means to call God, the Almighty.
The wonder of The Quran is how it contains an infinite amount of knowledge, and an infinite way of coming to that knowledge, in a finite book. There are simple rules to follow, but there are also subtleties on top of subtleties--with possibilities for successive generations to come to new understandings. Or for a single individual, as well. Sometimes I read suras that I've read a hundred times and then suddenly understand something I never had before. The deeper I look, the deeper the well of knowledge becomes.
Which is why I enjoy discussing meditation and how it affects people, what they gain from it, things they've found that are beneficial. And I know nothing of Kismet...well, except that it has something with the Egyptians. Maybe you could...er, enlighten me. D
While I've heard about "prayer" studies done for heart attack patients, the movie about reducing crime through meditation sounds terrific. I'd love to see it, especially since it involved quantum physicists. My major in college was physics. Although I never pursued a degree beyond the undergraduate level, what I learned about modern physics forever changed my way of thinking. When I meet people who are overly concerned with what they call "reality," I just smile. Unless, of course, they're ready to have their illusions smashed.
Thank you for starting this wonderful thread, idolfree! I think it is especially relevant here at the FM site...where issues of spirituality, rather than organized religion, can be explored.
Peace.
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peace be upon you,
As for the 14 chakras, according to what I know of Hinduism, they correspond to the 7 upper and 7 lower worlds, which make up "the universe." Each of the 14 worlds have names and divisions for planes of existence that correspond to body, mind and soul. The 7 upper chakras are the principle chakras along the spine and up to the top of the head. The 7 lower ones are below the spine and, I think,they extend down into the ground.
The God who created seven skies and the same number of earths. His command descends between them, that you may know that The God is capable of all things, and that The God has encompassed all things with His knowledge. (6512)
coincidence? I think the signs talking about the 7 skies, 7 passageways, 7 pairs, 7 skies and 7 earths are all talking about the chakras
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Peace All,
Just wanted to add some insight into the fruits of focused consciousness, as I'm still working on finding the right meditation program for myself, but have found that some past experiences coincide with the goals of meditation.
In many aboriginal cultures, shamans and other spiritual 'seekers' use a stimulus to reach a point of focus. Hallucinogenic herbs and plants are commonly ingested to catalyze a wakeful subconscious. In this state, the person gains a vision of the spiritual realm, a deep focus beyond the physical. When this state is guided with a purpose, 'truth' is found.
My memory of my own experiences with hallucinogenics concurs with these ancient findings. In the temporary enlightened state, one is capable of seeing past the physical illusion and connect to the "one" with unadulterated vision. The beauty of this state is, the mind is completely free of distraction. The mind only processes one chain of thought at a time. It does not wander aimlessly with scattered thoughts, cluttering the thought process. It is comletely and utterly attuned to what the soul directs it to attune to. And when one's entire being is focused on one point, that one point reveals itself in ways that would otherwise go unnoticed.
I recall looking at people and only seeing the beauty, the love. I found new delight in the colors of the world, in the movement of nature, for example, in the way the trees swayed, catching the wind and absorbing the oxygen from the air. Seemingly mundane happenings that I ignore everyday were exhibiting their signs for me to see. The signs of "One" were everywhere. The sounds of life took on new meaning, even the beeping of taxi cab horns at 5a.m. in New York City. People's voices, the sound of the wind, music, cars driving by, white noise of nature, all had a new softness to them, a reminder, pure beauty.
Beyond this, in dialogue with people, an amazing connection could be felt. I could "see" into their souls. I could feel them. The spoken words were always the right words to express what the souls were feeling.
And in introspection, I could see my life and my purpose with a forgiving calm. I felt in harmony, in complete peace. Any question I could muster, the answers immediately manifested themselves, in perfect clarity. No confusion.
And it's been a long time since I've been down that path. But everything I've read about meditation since then leads me to believe that what I tapped into is the very goal of meditation. My minor experiences with meditation thus far have confirmed this.
The trick is, at this point, making the time to quiet my mind and once again reach that state of attunement.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
sytalls wrote
The wonder of The Quran is how it contains an infinite amount of knowledge, and an infinite way of coming to that knowledge, in a finite book. There are simple rules to follow, but there are also subtleties on top of subtleties--with possibilities for successive generations to come to new understandings. Or for a single individual, as well. Sometimes I read suras that I've read a hundred times and then suddenly understand something I never had before. The deeper I look, the deeper the well of knowledge becomes.I do think i said something like this on this forum before - you're words really touched me, 'cause if they could have been mine for their understanding, i wouldn't be able to state them so beautifully. Thanks sytalls,
Elke
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Peace all
Elke, thank you. Must be sisterly minds in thinking in harmony about The Quran.
Idris...6512 does indeed sound very much like the description of the 14 chakras, doesn't it? Although I'm wondering if, instead of referring directly to the chakras themselves, it may mean that God's creations are mirrored within or connected to our human bodies.
Tay...although I've never tried hallucinogenics of any kind, I've talked to people who have reported the same sort of experience you had. They have also reported a bad side, as well--where their "trips" turned ugly and nightmarish.
But I do think you're right that hallucinogens are a shortcut to the same place you'll eventually reach through meditation. With practice, it is possible to go to deeper and deeper states of relaxation, because it's easier to free the mind from its clutter and reach the clarity of the unconscious.
The danger with hallucinogens would be tapping into the unconscious when we're unprepared. After all, our conscious mind tries to protect us by shielding us from certain thoughts or memories. By using the slower process of meditation, we can confront our deeper thoughts and emotions at a more appropriate pace, thereby giving ourselves time to process any disturbing truths we may need to confront along the way.
Whenever I'm having trouble with meditation, it's usually because there is something going on in my unconscious that I haven't faced up to--some truth about myself or people or things around me that I haven't acknowledged. So, I guess, in a way, that's why meditation helps with reading The Quran--by making us more willing to accept truth when we come face to face with it.
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Peace Sytalls,
You stated
although I've never tried hallucinogenics of any kind, I've talked to people who have reported the same sort of experience you had. They have also reported a bad side, as well--where their "trips" turned ugly and nightmarish...The danger with hallucinogens would be tapping into the unconscious when we're unprepared. After all, our conscious mind tries to protect us by shielding us from certain thoughts or memories.
You're right. There is definitely a bad side if the mind is not ready for the lights to be turned on, so to speak. This is why, in shamanistic cultures, there is usually a process which precedes the ingesting of hallucinogenics, designed to ready the mind for the coming journey. The mind, body, and soul must be in harmony before opening these doors. The person must be in the right environment, in the right state of mind, and physically healthy in order to achieve the maximum gain. Where people fail, generally, is when they're not prepared but still open the doors anyway. In party atmospheres, for instance, hallucinogenics combined with the chaos of mulititudes of people, all in different states of consciousness, is a recipe for an unpleasant experience. The environment is crucial to the experience.
By using the slower process of meditation, we can confront our deeper thoughts and emotions at a more appropriate pace, thereby giving ourselves time to process any disturbing truths we may need to confront along the way.
Very well said, and I agree completely.
Getting back to environment, I used to commute to New York City years ago. The journey was extremely hectic so I decided early on not to get caught up in the rat race, but rather, just observe, in order to save myself from the stresses. In a few days time, I was walking through the masses of people with no preconceptions, no need to hurry along with them, no judgements when I was bumped or cut-off. I just smiled. Shortly thereafter, I reached a point of insight in the midst of the chaos. I looked at people and could see within. I could feel their pains, their pressures, their anxiety. I could see why some people would develop back problems, as their posture and walking stride were imbalanced. In short, I became the observer, not the participant.
But this didn't last long. Eventually, the environment beat me. Despite my best efforts, I degenerated from the role of observer to become a participant in the chaos, hurrying and stressed out for no apparent reason. I left that position shortly after recognizing this, vowing never to take part in that madness again.
These days, my commute is shorter, but my working day longer. Thus the challenge to create the right environment for reaching peace remains. But, as they say, where there's a will, there's a way. Inshallah, I will find my little piece of peace, and get back to that attunement that I glimpsed so many years ago.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
That was a very good example you gave. Why do you think the environment ended up winning? We are here to be tested, to see if we can maintain PEACEFUL states of mind. Those people refered to as "saints" did not get there by living lives freee from stress, in fact, they put themselves many times in the worst conditions because that is where we get the God POWER. It is only by being tested that we develop ourselves. Just like weight lifting to develop the body. We need resistance. The goal is not to run from the resistance(I am not saying that is what you did) but to continue to transcend the propblems in life.
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peace be upon all,
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you, perhaps thats why were are to bathe before salat, maybe this symbolizes the way meditation cleanses our thoughts which are electricity, just a thought
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Peace be upon you Idris,
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you, perhaps thats why were are to bathe before salat, maybe this symbolizes the way meditation cleanses our thoughts which are electricity, just a thought
Good thought. Also, we rub our heads and feet, which would help conduct energy. It all seems to tie in. Also, water and soil are symbolisms of things that CHANGE/ADAPT/FORMABLE, and that is what meditation is for, changing your character into a moral being through purification so that the God Within can use you as a vessel for bringing "heaven on earth"
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Peace all.
Peace Tay.
That is most interesting about shamanistic cultures preparing people to undergo the experience of hallucinogenics. It would indeed be quite different from a situtation where people get high just to get high or trip out because it's the thing to do.I completely understand what you mean about going from peace to non-peace. Sometimes it seems to me as if our psyches learn new ways to counteract our efforts to remain peaceful.
Could be that resistance you mentioned, idolfree. Like a nasty virus that learns to resist antibiotics. It sure seems to take a lot more effort (consistent effort) to bring peace and clarity through meditation than it does for chaos and stress to creep in to our lives.
Wow, Idris, I'd never thought about that before--how electrons are neutralized by water! We rub electrons off all the time, since pretty much all our physical interactions with matter are a result of opposing electromagnetic forces. But water (or dirt) would definitely neutralize static charges, which could have a calming effect.
Idolfree, your comment about rubbing our heads and feet reminds me of washing the chi after qi gong or tai chi routines. It made me giggle the first time I saw someone do that, but it really does seem to get energy flowing.
Has anybody here ever used stones or crystals to help focus energy? I've never done that, so I was curious as to whether any of you have found a benefit in doing so.
I had this one friend who used to "smudge" her house at least once a week with a big bundle of sage and other aromatic herbs. She would also do so if someone who was overtly negative in their outlook or manner had visited. Since reading Idris' post, I'm now wondering if perhaps the particular components of the smudge stick worked to neutralize certain charges in the air, along with putting out calming scents, which could make a home "feel" more peaceful.
By the way, have I mentioned for the hundreth time that I just love this thread?
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Peace Kyle,
You stated/asked
That was a very good example you gave. Why do you think the environment ended up winning?
Thank you. As for why I was defeated by the environment, I think it's becuase the negative energy simply outweighed the positive, by far. I befriended an older woman years ago who came from native american roots. She helped me in my quest for sipritual awakening. Anyway, we were talking about people's energies and she explained that the laws of nature favor balance, even on a personal level.
She used the example of amlls around Christmas time. She asked me if I'd ever walked into a mall in a good mood, and ended up leaving in a frayed or anxious or troubled state. I knew what she meant right away. She explained that when you bring high positive energy into an environment, the existing negative energy, if it is predominant, will bring your levels down.
I've tested this time and again. Thus, I avoid malls at peak hours.
I've also experienced the opposite effect. The last time I can remember this happening was last summer at the Prince concert. I wasn't really in the mood to go, but felt bad as I had already committed. I was tired and little stressed out because of money. But once inside, and once Prince started jamming, the entire place went nuts, and I was completely energized.
Those people refered to as "saints" did not get there by living lives freee from stress, in fact, they put themselves many times in the worst conditions because that is where we get the God POWER. It is only by being tested that we develop ourselves. Just like weight lifting to develop the body. We need resistance. The goal is not to run from the resistance(I am not saying that is what you did) but to continue to transcend the propblems in life.
I agree that resistence is necessary for growth, but I think one should pick and choose his spots until the growth is up to the task of it's resistence. Using your weightlifting example, if someone can benchpress 200 pounds, he should shoot for 210 the next workout. But to be fair, the NYC rat race is equivalent to trying to benchpress 1500 pounds. You'll never get the bar off the bench.
Building resistence is a slow and steady process.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Kyle, Sytalls, Idris,
Kyle, I did some more digesting of this topic(environmental influence) while at work today and came up with a few thoughts. First, I think I worded my previous reply badly in saying that nature enforces balance in energies.
My example of the frenzy of a shopping mall would sound contradictory if this were true, since going in to a negative environment with positive energy generally leaves the person feeling some sort of negativity, but not vice versa.
That being said, I think the collective consciousness of a given environment dictates the level of energy. For instance, prison generates more crime, not the opposite.
So, my position at this point is that one should seek a positive environment in order to nurture positive energy.
As for your reference to "saints", I don't think they achieved their respective levels of enlightenment by being in negative environments. I imagine that a certain level of understanding must have been present prior to these folks putting themselves in the "worst positions". And probably the most efficient way of reaching these levels of understanding is to grow up in an enriching, loving, and encouraging environment. I think the odds are stacked high against those that grow up in abusive, negative environments.
Idris, you stated
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you,
Excellent observation, as I think we can all agree that water is very calming/relaxing. I'm curious where you learned this from.
Sytalls, you stated
Sometimes it seems to me as if our psyches learn new ways to counteract our efforts to remain peaceful.
I agree that it seems that way sometimes, but I think it has more to do with getting caught up in negative routines than anything else. Many times I've caught myself in a negative cycle and in that, I find wonder, as it exemplifies the true seperation between mind and soul. The mind is like a machine. It is a thought processor. Left alone, it will run itself into meaningless chaos, as it does not choose direction. It cannot observe, it can only act. The soul is what guides. The soul is the observer, the voice that says, "This sucks! It's time for change".
Here's a neat little exercise
Ask yourself, "why do bad things always happen to me?"
and observe how quickly the mind will find answers to this negative question.
Now ask yourself, "how can I make a little difference in the world?"
and observe the positive outcome.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
I follow your line of thinking all the way, but I want to try to add something. First of all I agree 100% that one must lift bigger weights gradually. But regarding negative and positive environments, I want to say a few things. We are sent into this world ONLY to be tested, to see if we will SERVE the God. A test is a challenge. A positive environment bares no challenge, no test for us, to see if we are really developing our character or not. It is easy to be good and do good around "positivity". People generally don't fight in churches and masjids , etc. But once back in the streets, the true test begins again. Further, it is the negative environment that needs OUR EXAMPLE walking amongst them. That is why the messengers preach to the people who don't know, to make the message clear. But as you clearly stated, we have to build up our strength, and we do so by maintaining the process(meditation). This helps us to transcend both positive AND negative and get to the NUETRAL PLACE, the BALANCED PLACE (wusta). So when we walk through the mall, we should be at PEACE(nuetral) so that whatever energy comes our way, we can deal with it.
Please let me know if this makes since to you, I would like to talk about this more, but I am rushing right now.
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peace be upon you Tay,
Excellent observation, as I think we can all agree that water is very calming/relaxing. I'm curious where you learned this from.
I sometimes read up on Harun Yahya for science because he provides commentary along with scientific facts to get you thinking deeper about the meaning behind everything, I don't necessarily agree on his creationist views but he writes a lot of interesting stuff