Meditation
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peace be upon you,
As for the 14 chakras, according to what I know of Hinduism, they correspond to the 7 upper and 7 lower worlds, which make up "the universe." Each of the 14 worlds have names and divisions for planes of existence that correspond to body, mind and soul. The 7 upper chakras are the principle chakras along the spine and up to the top of the head. The 7 lower ones are below the spine and, I think,they extend down into the ground.
The God who created seven skies and the same number of earths. His command descends between them, that you may know that The God is capable of all things, and that The God has encompassed all things with His knowledge. (6512)
coincidence? I think the signs talking about the 7 skies, 7 passageways, 7 pairs, 7 skies and 7 earths are all talking about the chakras
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Peace All,
Just wanted to add some insight into the fruits of focused consciousness, as I'm still working on finding the right meditation program for myself, but have found that some past experiences coincide with the goals of meditation.
In many aboriginal cultures, shamans and other spiritual 'seekers' use a stimulus to reach a point of focus. Hallucinogenic herbs and plants are commonly ingested to catalyze a wakeful subconscious. In this state, the person gains a vision of the spiritual realm, a deep focus beyond the physical. When this state is guided with a purpose, 'truth' is found.
My memory of my own experiences with hallucinogenics concurs with these ancient findings. In the temporary enlightened state, one is capable of seeing past the physical illusion and connect to the "one" with unadulterated vision. The beauty of this state is, the mind is completely free of distraction. The mind only processes one chain of thought at a time. It does not wander aimlessly with scattered thoughts, cluttering the thought process. It is comletely and utterly attuned to what the soul directs it to attune to. And when one's entire being is focused on one point, that one point reveals itself in ways that would otherwise go unnoticed.
I recall looking at people and only seeing the beauty, the love. I found new delight in the colors of the world, in the movement of nature, for example, in the way the trees swayed, catching the wind and absorbing the oxygen from the air. Seemingly mundane happenings that I ignore everyday were exhibiting their signs for me to see. The signs of "One" were everywhere. The sounds of life took on new meaning, even the beeping of taxi cab horns at 5a.m. in New York City. People's voices, the sound of the wind, music, cars driving by, white noise of nature, all had a new softness to them, a reminder, pure beauty.
Beyond this, in dialogue with people, an amazing connection could be felt. I could "see" into their souls. I could feel them. The spoken words were always the right words to express what the souls were feeling.
And in introspection, I could see my life and my purpose with a forgiving calm. I felt in harmony, in complete peace. Any question I could muster, the answers immediately manifested themselves, in perfect clarity. No confusion.
And it's been a long time since I've been down that path. But everything I've read about meditation since then leads me to believe that what I tapped into is the very goal of meditation. My minor experiences with meditation thus far have confirmed this.
The trick is, at this point, making the time to quiet my mind and once again reach that state of attunement.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
sytalls wrote
The wonder of The Quran is how it contains an infinite amount of knowledge, and an infinite way of coming to that knowledge, in a finite book. There are simple rules to follow, but there are also subtleties on top of subtleties--with possibilities for successive generations to come to new understandings. Or for a single individual, as well. Sometimes I read suras that I've read a hundred times and then suddenly understand something I never had before. The deeper I look, the deeper the well of knowledge becomes.I do think i said something like this on this forum before - you're words really touched me, 'cause if they could have been mine for their understanding, i wouldn't be able to state them so beautifully. Thanks sytalls,
Elke
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Peace all
Elke, thank you. Must be sisterly minds in thinking in harmony about The Quran.
Idris...6512 does indeed sound very much like the description of the 14 chakras, doesn't it? Although I'm wondering if, instead of referring directly to the chakras themselves, it may mean that God's creations are mirrored within or connected to our human bodies.
Tay...although I've never tried hallucinogenics of any kind, I've talked to people who have reported the same sort of experience you had. They have also reported a bad side, as well--where their "trips" turned ugly and nightmarish.
But I do think you're right that hallucinogens are a shortcut to the same place you'll eventually reach through meditation. With practice, it is possible to go to deeper and deeper states of relaxation, because it's easier to free the mind from its clutter and reach the clarity of the unconscious.
The danger with hallucinogens would be tapping into the unconscious when we're unprepared. After all, our conscious mind tries to protect us by shielding us from certain thoughts or memories. By using the slower process of meditation, we can confront our deeper thoughts and emotions at a more appropriate pace, thereby giving ourselves time to process any disturbing truths we may need to confront along the way.
Whenever I'm having trouble with meditation, it's usually because there is something going on in my unconscious that I haven't faced up to--some truth about myself or people or things around me that I haven't acknowledged. So, I guess, in a way, that's why meditation helps with reading The Quran--by making us more willing to accept truth when we come face to face with it.
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Peace Sytalls,
You stated
although I've never tried hallucinogenics of any kind, I've talked to people who have reported the same sort of experience you had. They have also reported a bad side, as well--where their "trips" turned ugly and nightmarish...The danger with hallucinogens would be tapping into the unconscious when we're unprepared. After all, our conscious mind tries to protect us by shielding us from certain thoughts or memories.
You're right. There is definitely a bad side if the mind is not ready for the lights to be turned on, so to speak. This is why, in shamanistic cultures, there is usually a process which precedes the ingesting of hallucinogenics, designed to ready the mind for the coming journey. The mind, body, and soul must be in harmony before opening these doors. The person must be in the right environment, in the right state of mind, and physically healthy in order to achieve the maximum gain. Where people fail, generally, is when they're not prepared but still open the doors anyway. In party atmospheres, for instance, hallucinogenics combined with the chaos of mulititudes of people, all in different states of consciousness, is a recipe for an unpleasant experience. The environment is crucial to the experience.
By using the slower process of meditation, we can confront our deeper thoughts and emotions at a more appropriate pace, thereby giving ourselves time to process any disturbing truths we may need to confront along the way.
Very well said, and I agree completely.
Getting back to environment, I used to commute to New York City years ago. The journey was extremely hectic so I decided early on not to get caught up in the rat race, but rather, just observe, in order to save myself from the stresses. In a few days time, I was walking through the masses of people with no preconceptions, no need to hurry along with them, no judgements when I was bumped or cut-off. I just smiled. Shortly thereafter, I reached a point of insight in the midst of the chaos. I looked at people and could see within. I could feel their pains, their pressures, their anxiety. I could see why some people would develop back problems, as their posture and walking stride were imbalanced. In short, I became the observer, not the participant.
But this didn't last long. Eventually, the environment beat me. Despite my best efforts, I degenerated from the role of observer to become a participant in the chaos, hurrying and stressed out for no apparent reason. I left that position shortly after recognizing this, vowing never to take part in that madness again.
These days, my commute is shorter, but my working day longer. Thus the challenge to create the right environment for reaching peace remains. But, as they say, where there's a will, there's a way. Inshallah, I will find my little piece of peace, and get back to that attunement that I glimpsed so many years ago.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
That was a very good example you gave. Why do you think the environment ended up winning? We are here to be tested, to see if we can maintain PEACEFUL states of mind. Those people refered to as "saints" did not get there by living lives freee from stress, in fact, they put themselves many times in the worst conditions because that is where we get the God POWER. It is only by being tested that we develop ourselves. Just like weight lifting to develop the body. We need resistance. The goal is not to run from the resistance(I am not saying that is what you did) but to continue to transcend the propblems in life.
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peace be upon all,
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you, perhaps thats why were are to bathe before salat, maybe this symbolizes the way meditation cleanses our thoughts which are electricity, just a thought
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Peace be upon you Idris,
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you, perhaps thats why were are to bathe before salat, maybe this symbolizes the way meditation cleanses our thoughts which are electricity, just a thought
Good thought. Also, we rub our heads and feet, which would help conduct energy. It all seems to tie in. Also, water and soil are symbolisms of things that CHANGE/ADAPT/FORMABLE, and that is what meditation is for, changing your character into a moral being through purification so that the God Within can use you as a vessel for bringing "heaven on earth"
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Peace all.
Peace Tay.
That is most interesting about shamanistic cultures preparing people to undergo the experience of hallucinogenics. It would indeed be quite different from a situtation where people get high just to get high or trip out because it's the thing to do.I completely understand what you mean about going from peace to non-peace. Sometimes it seems to me as if our psyches learn new ways to counteract our efforts to remain peaceful.
Could be that resistance you mentioned, idolfree. Like a nasty virus that learns to resist antibiotics. It sure seems to take a lot more effort (consistent effort) to bring peace and clarity through meditation than it does for chaos and stress to creep in to our lives.
Wow, Idris, I'd never thought about that before--how electrons are neutralized by water! We rub electrons off all the time, since pretty much all our physical interactions with matter are a result of opposing electromagnetic forces. But water (or dirt) would definitely neutralize static charges, which could have a calming effect.
Idolfree, your comment about rubbing our heads and feet reminds me of washing the chi after qi gong or tai chi routines. It made me giggle the first time I saw someone do that, but it really does seem to get energy flowing.
Has anybody here ever used stones or crystals to help focus energy? I've never done that, so I was curious as to whether any of you have found a benefit in doing so.
I had this one friend who used to "smudge" her house at least once a week with a big bundle of sage and other aromatic herbs. She would also do so if someone who was overtly negative in their outlook or manner had visited. Since reading Idris' post, I'm now wondering if perhaps the particular components of the smudge stick worked to neutralize certain charges in the air, along with putting out calming scents, which could make a home "feel" more peaceful.
By the way, have I mentioned for the hundreth time that I just love this thread?
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Peace Kyle,
You stated/asked
That was a very good example you gave. Why do you think the environment ended up winning?
Thank you. As for why I was defeated by the environment, I think it's becuase the negative energy simply outweighed the positive, by far. I befriended an older woman years ago who came from native american roots. She helped me in my quest for sipritual awakening. Anyway, we were talking about people's energies and she explained that the laws of nature favor balance, even on a personal level.
She used the example of amlls around Christmas time. She asked me if I'd ever walked into a mall in a good mood, and ended up leaving in a frayed or anxious or troubled state. I knew what she meant right away. She explained that when you bring high positive energy into an environment, the existing negative energy, if it is predominant, will bring your levels down.
I've tested this time and again. Thus, I avoid malls at peak hours.
I've also experienced the opposite effect. The last time I can remember this happening was last summer at the Prince concert. I wasn't really in the mood to go, but felt bad as I had already committed. I was tired and little stressed out because of money. But once inside, and once Prince started jamming, the entire place went nuts, and I was completely energized.
Those people refered to as "saints" did not get there by living lives freee from stress, in fact, they put themselves many times in the worst conditions because that is where we get the God POWER. It is only by being tested that we develop ourselves. Just like weight lifting to develop the body. We need resistance. The goal is not to run from the resistance(I am not saying that is what you did) but to continue to transcend the propblems in life.
I agree that resistence is necessary for growth, but I think one should pick and choose his spots until the growth is up to the task of it's resistence. Using your weightlifting example, if someone can benchpress 200 pounds, he should shoot for 210 the next workout. But to be fair, the NYC rat race is equivalent to trying to benchpress 1500 pounds. You'll never get the bar off the bench.
Building resistence is a slow and steady process.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Kyle, Sytalls, Idris,
Kyle, I did some more digesting of this topic(environmental influence) while at work today and came up with a few thoughts. First, I think I worded my previous reply badly in saying that nature enforces balance in energies.
My example of the frenzy of a shopping mall would sound contradictory if this were true, since going in to a negative environment with positive energy generally leaves the person feeling some sort of negativity, but not vice versa.
That being said, I think the collective consciousness of a given environment dictates the level of energy. For instance, prison generates more crime, not the opposite.
So, my position at this point is that one should seek a positive environment in order to nurture positive energy.
As for your reference to "saints", I don't think they achieved their respective levels of enlightenment by being in negative environments. I imagine that a certain level of understanding must have been present prior to these folks putting themselves in the "worst positions". And probably the most efficient way of reaching these levels of understanding is to grow up in an enriching, loving, and encouraging environment. I think the odds are stacked high against those that grow up in abusive, negative environments.
Idris, you stated
I learned that when you take a shower the water cleanses the static electricty on you, this is why it calms you,
Excellent observation, as I think we can all agree that water is very calming/relaxing. I'm curious where you learned this from.
Sytalls, you stated
Sometimes it seems to me as if our psyches learn new ways to counteract our efforts to remain peaceful.
I agree that it seems that way sometimes, but I think it has more to do with getting caught up in negative routines than anything else. Many times I've caught myself in a negative cycle and in that, I find wonder, as it exemplifies the true seperation between mind and soul. The mind is like a machine. It is a thought processor. Left alone, it will run itself into meaningless chaos, as it does not choose direction. It cannot observe, it can only act. The soul is what guides. The soul is the observer, the voice that says, "This sucks! It's time for change".
Here's a neat little exercise
Ask yourself, "why do bad things always happen to me?"
and observe how quickly the mind will find answers to this negative question.
Now ask yourself, "how can I make a little difference in the world?"
and observe the positive outcome.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Tay,
I follow your line of thinking all the way, but I want to try to add something. First of all I agree 100% that one must lift bigger weights gradually. But regarding negative and positive environments, I want to say a few things. We are sent into this world ONLY to be tested, to see if we will SERVE the God. A test is a challenge. A positive environment bares no challenge, no test for us, to see if we are really developing our character or not. It is easy to be good and do good around "positivity". People generally don't fight in churches and masjids , etc. But once back in the streets, the true test begins again. Further, it is the negative environment that needs OUR EXAMPLE walking amongst them. That is why the messengers preach to the people who don't know, to make the message clear. But as you clearly stated, we have to build up our strength, and we do so by maintaining the process(meditation). This helps us to transcend both positive AND negative and get to the NUETRAL PLACE, the BALANCED PLACE (wusta). So when we walk through the mall, we should be at PEACE(nuetral) so that whatever energy comes our way, we can deal with it.
Please let me know if this makes since to you, I would like to talk about this more, but I am rushing right now.
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peace be upon you Tay,
Excellent observation, as I think we can all agree that water is very calming/relaxing. I'm curious where you learned this from.
I sometimes read up on Harun Yahya for science because he provides commentary along with scientific facts to get you thinking deeper about the meaning behind everything, I don't necessarily agree on his creationist views but he writes a lot of interesting stuff
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Peace Kyle,
You stated
Please let me know if this makes since to you, I would like to talk about this more, but I am rushing right now.
Yes, I understand where you're coming from, and accordingly, you say you understand where I'm coming from - perhaps then we need to isolate the context because at face value, I think the impression is that folks should surround themselves with negativity in order to develop themselves. I don't agree with that statement as an absolute.
This will require some fine tuning so I'll have a crack at it. Let me know what you think and we will tweak accordingly...
One should surround him/herself in a positive environment for the sake of nurturing their spiritual development. Part of the overall development of the individual comes from dealing with adversity and negativity. One should learn to do so in a peaceful, balanced manner.
Let me know what you think...and take your time wink
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Tay
I agree that it seems that way sometimes, but I think it has more to do with getting caught up in negative routines than anything else. Many times I've caught myself in a negative cycle and in that, I find wonder, as it exemplifies the true seperation between mind and soul. The mind is like a machine. It is a thought processor. Left alone, it will run itself into meaningless chaos, as it does not choose direction. It cannot observe, it can only act. The soul is what guides. The soul is the observer, the voice that says, "This sucks! It's time for change".
Nicely said! And I totally agree. That was pretty much what I was trying to say...that it is easy to get caught in a negative cycle. Where the mind takes in junk that can slow down the system by making us drag along thoughts of doom and despair. It can creep in when we're not paying attention. Until, like you said, the soul gives a wake-up call. D
I also agree with you on being around negative energy too much. While I think there are some negative situations we can't avoid, I do think we shouldn't deliberately place ourselves in situations where negative energy can contaminate us. Certain people are simply not healthy to be around for long periods of time. The same applies to books, TV and movies, which may not seem all that bad on the surface but still have a "depressing" effect.
It's as if we get so drained and negative ourselves, we've got little left to use when faced with a spiritual test or challenge. Even athletes have training time in which they build their muscles and endurance so they are prepared for competitive challenges. If they raced (or kicked or competed in any way) every day, they would quickly burn themselves out.
In addition to the experiment you mentioned, there's another interesting one I ran across many years ago. You may have already heard of it, but for those who haven't...
You'll need a friend for this one. Hold out your arm and invite your friend to press down on your arm while you resist as hard as you can.
Next, say to yourself (in your own mind so your friend isn't influenced), several times, "I am strong. I am strong." Then repeat the arm-pushing part and notice the change in resistance.
Now, repeat this process, saying, "I am weak. I am weak." Typically, your friend will be able to push your arm down quite easily when s/he could not before.
You can mix it up, so that the order of the "strong" "weak" statements are random. Just be sure to end with a final "I am strong" and arm push. Don't want to leave with a "weak" impression on the brain.
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Peace be upon you Tay,
One should surround him/herself in a positive environment for the sake of nurturing their spiritual development. Part of the overall development of the individual comes from dealing with adversity and negativity. One should learn to do so in a peaceful, balanced manner.
Agreed D
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Peace all
Peace idolfree...I'd asked you somewhere in this thread about the Kemetic system you'd mentioned, and I saw reference to it again, just now, on the Ramadan thread. I'm curious to know more about this, if you'd be willing to share some of your information. The only thing I know is that it has something to do with early Egyptians...and that may be off base.
Unless, of couse, you've given up on me since discovering that I have delusions about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. wink
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Peace be upon you Sytalls,
Peace idolfree...I'd asked you somewhere in this thread about the Kemetic system you'd mentioned, and I saw reference to it again, just now, on the Ramadan thread. I'm curious to know more about this, if you'd be willing to share some of your information. The only thing I know is that it has something to do with early Egyptians...and that may be off base.
Unless, of couse, you've given up on me since discovering that I have delusions about the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus.
lol No, never that, I would be glad to share more about that. Problem is, there is so much I just don't know where to start, plus I rather start another thread for that. What do you think of that?
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Peace idolfree,
Excellent idea! I would imagine this is probably one of those areas where there are more wrong ideas than right ones floating around. There used to be some people I knew who wore ankh necklaces, but I don't think they really knew much about why they were doing so.
On a completely wild aside...the show "Stargate" fascinates me in its use of Egyptian mythical gods along with creatures that seem to fit certain theories about the jinn. lol I know! I'm slipping into storyland again!!
And I'm relieved you won't hold my opinions against me...even though I haven't admitted yet how I have been known, on occasion, to whisper tales of quarks and probability waves to impressionable young minds. shock D