A GREAT CONTRADICTION
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Peace be upon you,
The God guides us towards ending debates when arguing cannot be avoided...."there is no arguing(jidala) in the debate"(Hajj)"
When arguing is taking place, we have left the realm of "Oneness" and we now see an "enemy" (so to speak). We should refrain and use that energy to transcend the emotional state and get back to PEACE. Peace is more important, debates must be halted for the sake of PEACE, we do not trade PEACE for a miserable price. We start our posts of with the greeting to invoke peace, so how can we then turn around and invoke tension with our statements, wether initiated or in response.
Just a reminder for myself and everyone else involved in this and all threads.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
you're becoming quite the lost cause unfortunately, because of the way you are discussing. you have total disregard for evidence, and repeatedly so...come on, have some scruples!...Keep it up mr. makeshift professor of arabic without actually knowing arabic...The fact you CONTINUE to talk about this shows your immaturity. Whether he agreed or not is irrelevant, and you continue to show the forum the low level of your arguing techniques...Most of the confusion stems from your blind adherence to your modern arabic dictionaries.
No personal attacks please; keep to the issues, thanks.
the more you talk the more you incriminate yourself. you are using MODERN ARABIC dictionaries... it is well known that meanings creep into Arabic words in modern Arabic, which are totally different from the true classic meanings.
This is simply your opinion, nothing more.
Wakas did agree with me.
you love putting words in people's mouths don't you? come on, have some scruples! he just went back and forth with you in several posts before finally getting sick of you. i'm not going to put words in his mouth, but i think it's obvious that he decided that fassala DOES NOT MEAN fully detailed... and wasn't that the whole issue here? Wasn't that how this thread got started?
LOL! You are evading, once again, what he and I agreed on, why do you continue to do this? Let me post, for the fourth time at least, where Wakas and I agree
PRIEST BOKMEI Relative to/specific to--Guidance, Al-Quran is fully detailed.
WAKAS My view is that al quran contains all the guidance we need with respect to its purpose....It is fully detailed with respect to its purpose as a guide.
Now, there you have it. What are you going to deny, that he didn't agree with my proposition?
Then I asked him
What Quranic word/term, are using for--fully detailed?
He made a claim about Al-Quran, to wit that, as a guide, it is fully detailed, hence, he is now required to prove that, hence, he is required to produce the Quranic term to justify his calling Allah's Quran---fully detailed? After being confronted with this question, he bailed out of the discussion...why? And please don't give me the "he's sick of me", baloney, because that is blaming.
In other words, we have gotten FULL "guidance" or "principles" on both drinking and zina.
Thank you, and that is all I've been arguing!
However, we ALSO get DETAILS/LAWS/APPLICATIONS about zina... 80 lashes.
Because that is Allah's guidance on zina. His guidance on drinking is..."people, you deal with it". What's the problem?
Please don't mix up the term DETAILED and COMPLETE. That is what you are doing here... when I say the Quran is not detailed (which is obvious) you immediately say "Well you're just saying the Quran is incomplete." As I said before, the Quran CAN be complete WITHOUT giving us ALL the applications/details.
2185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance...that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.
53...This day have I perfected for you your Deen and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Al-Islam as your Deen..
Main Entry PERFECT/ED being entirely without fault or defect flawless satisfying all requirements pure, total lacking in no essential detail complete meaning not lacking or faulty in any particular to bring to final form.
Main Entry COMPLETE having all necessary parts, elements, or steps.
Main Entry NECESSARY an indispensable item logically unavoidable that cannot be denied without contradiction
Main Entry DETAIL to report minutely and distinctly specify marked by abundant thoroughness in treating small items or parts.
( Now, would you look at that. Detail, means to report minutely and distinctly. So, let me get this straight, if something, as M-W asserts, is reported in a minute and distinct manner...it is detailed.
Check out what Allah says
1712...all things have We explained in detail.
1712...shayin fassalnahu tafseela.
WAKAS, said I would translate the following 'fassalnahu tafseela' as 'explained distinctly/clearly' or 'explained in a distinguishing/clarifying manner' or 'distinctly/clearly explained'.
Wow, would you look at that, Wakas, defined detail the same way as M-W. Instead of using "report", he uses "explain", and the both he and M-W, use "distinct". Without a doubt, fasala, means detailed. So, Allah, Wakas, M-W...all define detail the same way, hence, when Allah says "fassalnahu tafseela", He can only mean..detail miunutely and distinctly...the details)
GUIDANCE/Al-Quran the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
Now, here is the question and it will only require a yes or no response . Given the above ayats and defintions
Are ALL of the NECESSARY/COMPLETE DETAILS, RELATIVE TO MANKIND'S GUIDANCE , found in Allah's Quran. Yes or no?
Also note, according to my definitions the claim "the guidance is fully detailed in the Quran" MEANS that the principles PLUS the application is given.
Where did you get this from?? Tell you what, please pull out your ayats and prove your assertion.
2185 The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the criterion...that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks.
If guidance, according to you, means principles plus applications , then Allah, in 2185, Has made a mistake, because, according to you, in that, Allah didn't give the "application", as you define it, for dealing with drinking, His Quran then, cannot, in fact, relative to/specific to guidance, be fully detailed. Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways.
You are using fully detailed to mean the guidance is complete.
Exactly right! That is all I've been arguing.
This is NOT what I am talking about.. when I say fully detailed it means the guidance is complete AND the applications/details/laws are given for ALL the principles in the Quran.
LOL! Well, then you've made this up and now ascribe it to Allah's Quran. Either Allah's Quran, relative to/specific to GUIDANCE, is complete, fully detailed, and perfect...or it is not. Does Allah, anywhere, say that His Quran is not fully detailed in IT'S guidance/that somewhere it is lacking in guidance?, because for you to claim it is, relative to the "guidance of applications", then you must provide the proof/ayat where Allah says what you are ascribing to Him.
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, WAKAS AND SUHAIB,
Perhaps you guys can focus on this specifically, thanks.
You are evading, once again, what he and I agreed on, why do you continue to do this? Let me post, for the fourth time at least, where Wakas and I agree
PRIEST BOKMEI Relative to/specific to--Guidance, Al-Quran is fully detailed.
WAKAS My view is that al quran contains all the guidance we need with respect to its purpose....It is fully detailed with respect to its purpose as a guide.
Now, there you have it. What are you going to deny, that he didn't agree with my proposition?
Then I asked him
What Quranic word/term, are using for--fully detailed?
He made a claim about Al-Quran, to wit that, as a guide, it is fully detailed, hence, he is now required to prove that, hence, he is required to produce the Quranic term to justify his calling Allah's Quran---fully detailed? After being confronted with this question, he bailed out of the discussion...why? And please don't give me the "he's sick of me", baloney, because that is blaming.
Looking forward to your replies.
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PEACE, IDOL,
Perhaps you could chime in and help bring resolution to the debate. You were never one to shy from debate, so...why now?
What is your Quranic understanding of this debate?
Looking forward to your reply.
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salam pb,
it's too bad that it has come to this. i was thinking that perhaps you had a sincere desire for truth, and that discussion may be of benefit.
you keep talking about wakas when that is the most irrelevant thing to talk about in this discussion... and then ask for idol to come and "resolve the debate." Bro, truth is truth. REGARDLESS OF POPULARITY. The fact you KEEP talking to me about wakas as if it matters that he agrees/disagrees, is just pathetic.
It's also sad how you claim that its "my opinion," when I present evidence from the classical lexicons... but somehow, when you blindly adhere to these modern Arabic dictionaries, it's evidence.
Because that is Allah's guidance on zina. His guidance on drinking is..."people, you deal with it". What's the problem?
Is "you people deal with it," SPECIFIC? is it DETAILED? Detail means there is one possibility....
80 lashes. Now THAT is detailed... no confusion, no ifs ands buts or ability to change things.
Compare that to "you people deal with it."
Call me crazy, but if there is a recipe book and the recipe says "figure it out on your own," IS THAT DETAILED???
But despite our differences, we are essentially talking about the same thing and basically even saying the same thing... the only thing I disagree with is that the term detailed is just a wrong use of the word since the Quran is NOT detailed. Complete, perfect, but not detailed since detailed would mean that EVERYTHING was explained .... IN DETAIL... that when it came time to punish drinking, it was .... explained... you guessed it... IN DETAIL! Detail is not "figure it out yourself." Detail is this is exactly how you do it (such as in zina).
(This is not to say we dont have guidance on what to do... of course we do. We all have an idea how to deal with drinking... undetailed guidance is NOT equal to detailed guidance, but in both cases, it is SUFFICIENT.)
I hope someday you will put in the effort to actually learn the language of the Quran, araby mubeen... and then will compare these modern dictionaries to the classical lexicons and see for yourself the difference.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
You've referred to me on a couple of occasions, and erroneously so, as being intellectually dishonest and immature, yes? Well, why then, don't you behave in an intellectully honest and mature manner and simply answer, at last, the following?
244 Do you enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget to practice it yourselves, and yet you study the Scripture? Will you not understand?
Please answer the following, much obliged. Perhaps Wakas will also address his comments.
PEACE, WAKAS AND SUHAIB,
Perhaps you guys can focus on this specifically, thanks.
You are evading, once again, what he and I agreed on, why do you continue to do this? Let me post, for the fifth time at least, where Wakas and I agree
PRIEST BOKMEI Relative to/specific to--Guidance, Al-Quran is fully detailed.
WAKAS My view is that al quran contains all the guidance we need with respect to its purpose....It is fully detailed with respect to its purpose as a guide.
Now, there you have it. What are you going to deny, that he didn't agree with my proposition?
Then I asked him
What Quranic word/term, are you using for--fully detailed?
He made a claim about Al-Quran, to wit that, as a guide, it is fully detailed, hence, he is now required to prove that, hence, he is required to produce the Quranic term to justify his calling Allah's Quran---fully detailed? After being confronted with this question, he bailed out of the discussion...why? And please don't give me the "he's sick of me", baloney, because that is blaming.
Please stop evading the central issue of the debate, thanks.
Looking forward to your replies.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
But despite our differences, we are essentially talking about the same thing and basically even saying the same thing... the only thing I disagree with is that the term detailed is just a wrong use of the word since the Quran is NOT detailed. Complete, perfect, but not detailed since detailed would mean that EVERYTHING was explained .... IN DETAIL... that when it came time to punish drinking, it was .... explained... you guessed it... IN DETAIL! Detail is not "figure it out yourself." Detail is this is exactly how you do it (such as in zina).
You can differ with the term detailed all you wish, however, it will not change matters. You continue to want to align the use of detail with EVERYTHING while Allah is not. Fully detailed is only in reference to His Quran being that, relative to/specific to--GUIDANCE, that is all.
(This is not to say we dont have guidance on what to do... of course we do. We all have an idea how to deal with drinking... undetailed guidance is NOT equal to detailed guidance, but in both cases, it is SUFFICIENT.)
Well, given that we have guidance as to what to do, then we have the guidance, what is the problem?
"Undetailed" guidance, relative to Al-Quran, is an oxymoron. Guidance is guidance is guidance.
Please don't focus on this post and continue to ignore the previous one, thanks.
Peace and looking forward to your reply.
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Peace be upon you PB,
Perhaps you could chime in and help bring resolution to the debate. You were never one to shy from debate, so...why now?
lol You know something respected brother, our debates taught me some imprtant lessons. There comes a point when the debates trun into arguments and the God instructs us that there is no arguing in the debate, so I back away a lot more these days, so that I don't develop headaches as Shuiab says he does when he leaves this forum. There is no compulsion in this system, so I give my examples from time to time and then turn away. It is up to each individual to do thier own work.
Regarding this topic, I saw you state that you were seeing my understanding a little better, but still not convinced, so I was letting you work it out.
What is your Quranic understanding of this debate?
I'll chime in again shortly, but the basis of my understanding has been given, all one needs to do is to collect all occurences and check it out. I have to get caught back up first then I will give more input.
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salam pb,
You've referred to me on a couple of occasions, and erroneously so, as being intellectually dishonest and immature, yes?
i've explained exactly what I meant by these things.. blindly clutching modern dictionaries while TOTALLY ignoring the plethora of evidence others have given you is what i refer to as dishonest. ESPECIALLY since this is a field that you truly have no TRUE knowledge of... Arabic!
APPLE PIE ANYONE?? You are no different than apple pie in your techniques.
Well, why then, don't you behave in an intellectully honest and mature manner and simply answer, at last, the following? 244 Do you enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget to practice it yourselves, and yet you study the Scripture? Will you not understand?
Well this is quite bizarre.. but yes i understand and will practice as i preach, just as the Quran has ordered.
What's your point?
It's really quite sad and pathetic to see you repeatedly drag wakas in this.. as if it mattered whether he agrees or disagrees.
Sorry if I didnt answer your question, but you certainly didn't make it obvious exactly what you were asking.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
salam pb,
You've referred to me on a couple of occasions, and erroneously so, as being intellectually dishonest and immature, yes?
i've explained exactly what I meant by these things.. blindly clutching modern dictionaries while TOTALLY ignoring the plethora of evidence others have given you is what i refer to as dishonest. ESPECIALLY since this is a field that you truly have no TRUE knowledge of... Arabic!
APPLE PIE ANYONE?? You are no different than apple pie in your techniques.
Well, why then, don't you behave in an intellectully honest and mature manner and simply answer, at last, the following? 244 Do you enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget to practice it yourselves, and yet you study the Scripture? Will you not understand?
Well this is quite bizarre.. but yes i understand and will practice as i preach, just as the Quran has ordered.
What's your point?
It's really quite sad and pathetic to see you repeatedly drag wakas in this.. as if it mattered whether he agrees or disagrees.
Sorry if I didnt answer your question, but you certainly didn't make it obvious exactly what you were asking.
Why won't you answer my question? Why do you continue to focus on personal stuff and avoid the issue of this thread?
What I asked was quite obvious, and well you know it. Your refusal to address my last two post to you, only solidifies the correctness of my position that, fasala, means fully detailed, as well as, relative to/specific to guidance, Al-Quran is fasla. In contrast, you have done both Al-Quran and yourself a great diservice by not being honest and answering my questions to you. You, and unfortunately Wakas, whom, I respect immensely, have seriously damaged your reputations. When people run and duck clearly asked questions, because they don't want to admit when they are wrong, it can only damage their credibility. Nothing else you say here at Free-Minds, for those who have read this thread anyway, can be fully respected or trusted now. Reputation/credibility is worth more than gold or platinum, and you've lost yours with me. Oh, btw, don't you believe that Allah has taken note of this discussion? If so, what are you running from?
Peace.
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salam pb,
thanks for your analysis of my credibility... it's amazing how much value your words about "credibility" have.. considering your tactics. And your little "tantrum" does wonders to establish your maturity level as well.
Nothing else you say here at Free-Minds, for those who have read this thread anyway, can be fully respected or trusted now.
Wow, again.. i didn't realize you were the mind heart soul and voice of free-minds forum. First you put words into wakas' mouth (according to him you MISREPRESENTED him), and now you put words in the rest of the forums mouths...
I'm the one making a bad name for myself??
Why won't you answer my question? Why do you continue to focus on personal stuff and avoid the issue of this thread?
What I asked was quite obvious, and well you know it.
Your refusal to address my last two post to you, only solidifies the correctness of my position that, fasala, means fully detailed...Do me a favor... look back at your last post and tell me WHERE that question is???
What Quranic word/term, are you using for--fully detailed?
Here's one of your questions, but certainly this question is for wakas and not myself since I have not explained the Quran as being FULLY DETAILED. You are the one trying to prove its fully detailed, not me.. for me, it doesn't matter if the phrase fully detailed is NEVER found in the Quran, it doesn't affect my position... however for you, it is critically important.
Which is exactly why you cling to your inaccurate modern Arabic "dictionaries" with such apple-pie-esque stubborness.
Like I said in my previous post
Sorry if I didnt answer your question, but you certainly didn't make it obvious exactly what you were asking.
Are these the words of someone avoiding a question? It's not my fault if you are a poor communicator. I honestly looked for a question to answer, and I have nothing to hide from questions. Quote your previous post what EXACTLY you asked, then I can be more sure about what you are asking.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
Here's one of your questions, but certainly this question is for wakas and not myself since I have not explained the Quran as being FULLY DETAILED. You are the one trying to prove its fully detailed, not me.. for me, it doesn't matter if the phrase fully detailed is NEVER found in the Quran, it doesn't affect my position... however for you, it is critically important.
This is why I say your credibility is damaged and that you are being disingenuous. I agree that Al-Quran is not fully detailed, except, relative to/specific to--guidance, that is all--GUIDANCE/Al-Quran the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
No matter how many times I state the above, you continue to look right past it. Let's see if I can improve upon my poor communication skills. I'm saying Al-Quran is fully detailed for guidance as defined by these ayats 2185, 187, 18110, and 649.
Now here are my questions
- Do you agree or disagree that, relative to/specific to the above definition of GUIDANCE--as corroborated by those four ayats that, Al-Quran is fully detailed...yes or no?
In other words
- Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
Are these questions clear? These questions require only a yes or a no response, so please...no embellishments.
Looking forward to your reply
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Peace be upon you,
Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
I have a question I would like to test that statement with. Is it the right path or straying for a 45 year old man to sleep with young boys in his bed, even though no sex takes place?
I know the God speaks about chastity and homosexuality, but that does not apply here, so what is the ruling?
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PEACE, IDOL,
Peace be upon you,
Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
I have a question I would like to test that statement with. Is it the right path or straying for a 45 year old man to sleep with young boys in his bed, even though no sex takes place?
I know the God speaks about chastity and homosexuality, but that does not apply here, so what is the ruling?
Before challange, you must first render your answers and then make you challenge based on that. No asking questions to questions, thanks.
Looking forward to your reply.
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Peace be upon you PB,
I will answer your questions.
- Do you agree or disagree that, relative to/specific to the above definition of GUIDANCE--as corroborated by those four ayats that, Al-Quran is fully detailed...yes or no?
Al Quraan is the guidance obtained from Universal Law, but I understand that you take it to be the title of a book so I will answer from your understanding. At this point I disagree, because I do not see if it is okay or not to sleep with young boys in my bed. Further, The God says that Al Kitaab is fully detailed, there is no verse saying Al Quraan is fully detailed. Al Quran is "guidance to the people (2185)"
For example, how is the following verse, addessed to the "believers" (Those who trust), to be understood if this Book we call "Koran" is "AL quraan?
(5101) You, those who trust, do not question/ask about things, if (it) appears to you, it harms you , and if you ask/question about it a time (when) the reading descends (it) appears to you, God forgave/pardoned about it, and God (is) forgiving/clement.
is the "Koran" going to descend to you? Or is it guidance of The God's Universal Law?
In other words
- Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
Al Quraan, the reading, is the reharsal of the God's signs from the horizons tro within our souls, which is Al Kitaab. That is why when the God's signs are regearsed they say "bring a reading other than this". TRhis Book you call "Koran" because of its size, cannot be "Al Quraan" and therfore cannot be fully detailed.
Is there instruction on how to start a fire?
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PEACE, KYLE,
Peace be upon you PB,
I will answer your questions.
- Do you agree or disagree that, relative to/specific to the above definition of GUIDANCE--as corroborated by those four ayats that, Al-Quran is fully detailed...yes or no?
Al Quraan is the guidance obtained from Universal Law, but I understand that you take it to be the title of a book so I will answer from your understanding. At this point I disagree, because I do not see if it is okay or not to sleep with young boys in my bed. Further, The God says that Al Kitaab is fully detailed, there is no verse saying Al Quraan is fully detailed. Al Quran is "guidance to the people (2185)"
For example, how is the following verse, addessed to the "believers" (Those who trust), to be understood if this Book we call "Koran" is "AL quraan?
(5101) You, those who trust, do not question/ask about things, if (it) appears to you, it harms you , and if you ask/question about it a time (when) the reading descends (it) appears to you, God forgave/pardoned about it, and God (is) forgiving/clement.
is the "Koran" going to descend to you? Or is it guidance of The God's Universal Law?
In other words
- Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
Al Quraan, the reading, is the reharsal of the God's signs from the horizons tro within our souls, which is Al Kitaab. That is why when the God's signs are regearsed they say "bring a reading other than this". TRhis Book you call "Koran" because of its size, cannot be "Al Quraan" and therfore cannot be fully detailed.
Is there instruction on how to start a fire?
Thank you very much for your reply.
Would you please copy and paste this reply under the thread dedicated to it SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS... and I will reply to you there, thanks again for your reply.
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salam pb,
i dont know why you insist on going in circles. you just want to ask the same question over and over, no matter how many times i answer it. this time i'm answering you by actually quoting myself, to prove the point.
YOU SAID
- Do you agree or disagree that, relative to/specific to the above definition of GUIDANCE--as corroborated by those four ayats that, Al-Quran is fully detailed...yes or no?
I HAVE SAID AND HAVE BEEN SAYING IN PREVIOUS POSTS
Thus, the Quran IS complete, despite leaving out "details."
it should be obvious that the guidance IS complete
The Quran is complete, ALL the necessary guidance is there and even some of the laws are detailed... EVERYTHING WE NEED TO SUCCEED IS THERE!
I have said that ALL the principles are there. The APPLICATIONS/laws are NOT all there (only some).
if you had actually READ my posts... you would have realized that from post #1 I have ALWAYS claimed that the principles were complete. I simply was trying to say that the APPLICATIONS/ACTUAL LEGAL RULES i.e. LAWS (like do not speed, do this and you get lashed, this much income tax, etc) are not all there... drinking is fuhasha, zina is fuhasha... zina is specifically punished...
we both agree that all we need is the Quran and the Quran is complete and perfect. we both agree that we dont require outside divine sources and all necessary divine guidance is in the Quran.
Complete, perfect, but not detailed since detailed would mean that EVERYTHING was explained .... IN DETAIL... that when it came time to punish drinking, it was .... explained... you guessed it... IN DETAIL! Detail is not "figure it out yourself." Detail is this is exactly how you do it (such as in zina).
YOU SAID
- Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL...yes or no?
I SAID
Thus, the Quran IS complete, despite leaving out "details."
And as above I made many other statements indicating the same idea... and if the Quran is complete, obviously if a person goes astray it is not the fault of the Quran.
Fully-detailed is simply the wrong word.. and you too, even YOU aren't using it to TRULY mean fully detailed.. you are simply using it to mean complete. And your above 2 questions display that as well.. all you are trying to say is FULLY COMPLETE, so WHY do you insist on using the term detailed which can lead to false impressions!
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
I replied to your post on the thread
SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS
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salam pb,
The likely reason people do not like to discuss with you after a while, is because it becomes more and more obvious that you are agenda driven.
So true. See my appraisal and warning...
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4359
You make a big deal about wakas agreeing with you, (which ironically enough turned out not to be true), while it is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT how many people agree or disagree with you... truth is truth, regardless of popularity.
PRIEST_BOKMEI = dhulqarnain (banned twice before).
This reminds me of "dhulqarnain"'s list thread s/he started attempting to compile a group of people who believed in the same dogmas s/he did. On the face of it, it was Quran only/God alone people - but careful examination showed it was a subset of those who agreed exactly with dhulqarnain ie. PRIEST_BOKMEI's ideas.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1230
PB If people would simply accept 1+1=2, then, there would be no need to repaeat things.
Spoken like a true dogmatist.
1+1=2 would be a good statement, if PRIEST_BOKMEI aka DHULQARNANE could make it. Instead you'll just get....
1+1... 1+1... 1+1 over and over.
The misquotations are an issue and another example has been found.
This disgusting behaviour by PRIEST_BOKMEI aka DHULQARNANE is in my view something that should not be tolerated given the atrocious reputation of this individual.
Unfortunately, the newer or less experienced people are being sucked into agenda driven 'discussions' with this character.
Peace/
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Peace Oben,
This reminds me of "dhulqarnain"'s list thread s/he started attempting to compile a group of people who believed in the same dogmas s/he did. On the face of it, it was Quran only/God alone people - but careful examination showed it was a subset of those who agreed exactly with dhulqarnain ie. PRIEST_BOKMEI's ideas.
He added me too back then, though we disagreed on quite a few matters, maybe he thought I was agreeing with him like he thought Wakas was on the other thread wink I second millitant behaviour not being tolerated. These misrepresentations are a serious issue and need to be dealt with.