SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS...
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PEACE, ZENJE,
Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL?
No.
I hope that suffices.
Yes, your answer absolutely suffices.
The only sane/taqwa answer to that question is "no", hence, Al-Quran, relative to/specific to/in respect to--- the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise , is fully detailed. For if it weren't, then mankind would inevitably/inexorably...be lead to...HELL.
Now, isn't it interesting that Shuaib, Wakas, and Idol, cannot/will not simply answer "no" as you and I have done, what is up with that??
Thanks for an honest response, Zenje. Perhaps the others will be lead by your example and simply answer "no" as well.
Peace.
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PEACE, SHUAIB,
you are only interested in avoiding the truth, and your ego.
my sentiments exactly.
Still cannot answer yes or no, eh?, simply pitiful. Anyway, I hope you will, at some point, show the kind of forthrightness/intellectual honesty that Zenje, has.
By not answering the question put to you, you sacrificed/forsook Al-Quran, to you ego. Good work.
Peace.
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Salaams all,
zenje wrote
PRIEST_BOKMEI wrote
Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL?No.
I hope that suffices.
I also agree 100%.
Salaam.
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PEACE, MZ357,
Salaams all,
zenje wrote
PRIEST_BOKMEI wrote
Did Allah, leave out any detail from Al-Quran, which could result in an individual going astray and thus going to HELL?No.
I hope that suffices.
I also agree 100%.
Salaam.
All praises due to Allah. You are another intellectually honest individual. Perhaps now Shuiab, Idol, and Wakas, will come out of hiding and follow yours and Zenje's lead and respond with a simple yes or no as well. Let's see.
It is my understanding that, the questions I asked, will demarcate the Muslim from the mushrik /munafiq .
Peace.
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It is my understanding that, the questions I asked, will demarcate the Muslim from the mushrik /munafiq .
Peace.Oh Priest Bokmei,
Demacrate the Muslim? But I don't label myself with anything! Why do you intend to label others with polythiest or hypocrite?
Simply a belief in God not enough?Regards,
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Peace be upon you PB,
We've come to that time again, you are losing your patience like Musa when he was learning higher wisdom from the unnamed teacher. I have to say Peace to you, maybe we will resume our debate another day.
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Peace be upon you PB,
We've come to that time again, you are losing your patience like Musa when he was learning higher wisdom from the unnamed teacher. I have to say Peace to you, maybe we will resume our debate another day.
LOL! Listen, the questions put to you were not trick questions or some profound philosophical problem. All you needed do was answer yes or no. Anyway, you have to live with yourself not me, but your credibility, at least for me, is now suspect. I will not question you after this.
Peace.
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PEACE, LOTE TREE,
It is my understanding that, the questions I asked, will demarcate the Muslim from the mushrik /munafiq .
Peace.Oh Priest Bokmei,
Demacrate the Muslim? But I don't label myself with anything! Why do you intend to label others with polythiest or hypocrite?
Simply a belief in God not enough?Regards,
I'm sorry if this makes you feel uncomfortable, Lote. If we are not submitting to Allah by obeying His Quran, then we are taking something else a god to guide.
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, LOTE TREE,
It is my understanding that, the questions I asked, will demarcate the Muslim from the mushrik /munafiq .
Peace.Oh Priest Bokmei,
Demacrate the Muslim? But I don't label myself with anything! Why do you intend to label others with polythiest or hypocrite?
Simply a belief in God not enough?Regards,
I'm sorry if this makes you feel uncomfortable, Lote. If we are not submitting to Allah by obeying His Quran, then we are taking something else a god to guide.
Looking forward to your reply.
Hello Priest Bokmei,
No, it does not make me uncomfortable at all.
But I believe by labelling it makes it easy to deny another human beings dignity. Just by saying this person is a Kaffir he becomes instantly less of a human being doesn't he? I feel that is wrong. What say you?Regards,
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PEACE, LOTE TREE,
No, it does not make me uncomfortable at all.
But I believe by labelling it makes it easy to deny another human beings dignity. Just by saying this person is a Kaffir he becomes instantly less of a human being doesn't he? I feel that is wrong. What say you?I'm gald you are not uncomfortable, good deal.
There is nothing wrong with labeling, and it is wrong thinking to believe that it is. Allah has labelled those who submit to Him...Muslims, and has labelled those who do not, rejectors.
I haven't called anyone a kaffir.
What say you?
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I'm gald you are not uncomfortable, good deal.
There is nothing wrong with labeling, and it is wrong thinking to believe that it is. Allah has labelled those who submit to Him...Muslims, and has labelled those who do not, rejectors.
Read this on Power of Labels http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3604
I haven't called anyone a kaffir.
What say you?Kaffir is Unbeliever isn't it? The demarcation between Muslim and others?
Regards,
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Salaams lote,
you said
"But I believe by labelling it makes it easy to deny another human beings dignity. Just by saying this person is a Kaffir he becomes instantly less of a human being doesn't he? I feel that is wrong. What say you? "
Can't we have a temporary label?to define a person according to their actions?
like a thief is a thief,but only when ever his actions are such.
But if he persists for a life time then he is one for life ain't he?
Don't you deny a thief the dignity which you would give him otherwise?
Same with one who commits or doesn't commit,believes or doesn't believe temporary or for life.
May be i am not comprehending this as you , but please explain -thanks.
Salaams.
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PEACE, MZ357,
Salaams lote,
you said
"But I believe by labelling it makes it easy to deny another human beings dignity. Just by saying this person is a Kaffir he becomes instantly less of a human being doesn't he? I feel that is wrong. What say you? "
Can't we have a temporary label?to define a person according to their actions?
like a thief is a thief,but only when ever his actions are such.
But if he persists for a life time then he is one for life ain't he?
Don't you deny a thief the dignity which you would give him otherwise?
Same with one who commits or doesn't commit,believes or doesn't believe temporary or for life.
May be i am not comprehending this as you , but please explain -thanks.
Salaams.
Good point, MZ.
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like a thief is a thief,but only when ever his actions are such.
But if he persists for a life time then he is one for life ain't he?The above is actions of "man-to-man" relationship. We are talking about "man-to-god" relationships and this is I think is different. And since we have different views on God, therefore it is important how you label them. If you call others hypocrites, unbelievers, kaffirs because they are unable to believe in your view of God then in your eyes they become a less of a human being don't they?
But we are all human beings regardless of faith aren't we?
Peopel don't become less human because they don't have your faith...Regards,
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PEACE, LOTE TREE,
The above is actions of "man-to-man" relationship. We are talking about "man-to-god" relationships and this is I think is different. And since we have different views on God, therefore it is important how you label them. If you call others hypocrites, unbelievers, kaffirs because they are unable to believe in your view of God then in your eyes they become a less of a human being don't they?
But we are all human beings regardless of faith aren't we?
Peopel don't become less human because they don't have your faith...As I said, rejector and Muslim are labels which Allah gives to Man. If some ones "rejects" that doesn't make that individual less than human. One can accept and reject and then reject again and then beleive again, before settling into one of those two states. Regardless, the rejector, doesn't cease being a human being. You are off on a false premise, Lote.
People of other faiths really need to examine if their faith is in alignment with what Allah has established.
Peace.
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Regardless, the rejector, doesn't cease being a human being.
I am glad that you think so too -)
But someone would consider a Hindu as less human because they don't happen to believe in Islamic God. And certain cultures have been brought up to think like that. And I think that is wrong but at least you are not like that and that is good thing -)
Regards,
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Salaam,
I am with Lote Tree on this one, the fact that GOD labels people in His Qur'an does not give us the right to do so, infact it is forbidden.
We don't need to name call individuals as if someone is rejecting GODs Qur'an we know how to approach this person, we don't need to gain advantage by warning off others. Everyone has been given a brain to evaluate others. But we also must be conscious of our error prone nature and we may regret what we think later, utterring it makes it a lot worse as its slander.
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PEACE, ASH SHUURA,
I am with Lote Tree on this one, the fact that GOD labels people in His Qur'an does not give us the right to do so, infact it is forbidden.
Please post the ayat which supports you claim.
We don't need to name call individuals as if someone is rejecting GODs Qur'an we know how to approach this person, we don't need to gain advantage by warning off others. Everyone has been given a brain to evaluate others. But we also must be conscious of our error prone nature and we may regret what we think later, utterring it makes it a lot worse as its slander.
This sounds good, but, if you are a Muslim...do you label yourself as such?