Plastic surgery ... allowed or prohibiteD ?
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Peace All,
Being "normal", "less than normal" and "above normal" are all part of God's plan. Is there anyone here who disagree with the fact that we are not all born with the same abilities whether in looks or in brains? For a person to be retarded, or genius, that is not a mistake. The same way with the physical side. Deformity could be because either God intended it or as a result of a human error. If deformity can be treated/fixed to help another human being become independent, then why not? It could be a form of sickness that can be easily treated, and medicine now more advanced. If not then we have to accept it the same we gladly accept having genius, or extraordinary people in the family!
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One person harming the other by exposing it to environmental insults (for example radiation) and making it deformed is similar to putting it in fire.
If by standing in sunlight radiation causes birth defects then I say it is shoddy workmanship! -)
The answer once again.......is putting your hand in fire and getting burned = shoddy workmanship?
Putting your hand in fire deliberately is sheer stupidity! Nothing to do with workmanship. It is like driving in your new shiny mercedes benze over cliff and hoping to survive. This is nothing do with workmanship but sheer lunacy -)
But if your new shiny mercedeez benzes gets wet inside in the rain then thats shoddy workmanship! If exposure of humans to earthly environments causes birth defects in newborn then it is shoddy workmanship in the design of humans, yeah? -)
You want to blame the Creator for our faults?
Yes, why not? Who else can you blame? I am sure God can handle complaints can't he, yeah? -)
Regards,
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Salaam Taj,
Changing how we look is the department of Al Shai6an. Iblees despised Adam (humans) from day one. He considered him (them) of a lower/lesser substance (clay). So he took it upon himself to prove to God that humans too feel the same way about themselves and so started convicing humans to change themsleves whenever and however possible. Iblees's mission is to tell us that we don't look right and that something has to be done to correct this mistake (in Iblees' mind this mistake was done by God, and that is why he refused to submit to God to prostrate to Adam Iblees' logic!).
There are fairly pragmatic means by which people can bring about change to themselves. Such as exercise and personality make-overs. Would this be the department of shaitan as well considering that considerable changes can be made through these practical methods? When does change become the realm of shaitan? Is it when it is for an evil cause or based on a bad disposition? If one wants to look sexier is getting sexed up (not sex) evil? If one wants to be modest is the change evil? When does it become the domain of shaitan?
Joe
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If by standing in sunlight radiation causes birth defects then I say it is shoddy workmanship!
Who talked about sunlight? Have you heard about Xrays? Do you know about different kinds of radiation? Please go study about it and then talk about it. Are you really....... (I do not want to make any personal remarks). By the way, excessive exposure to sunlight can cause some kinds of skin cancers in some people.
But if your new shiny mercedeez benzes gets wet inside in the rain then thats shoddy workmanship! If exposure of humans to earthly environments causes birth defects in newborn then it is shoddy workmanship in the design of humans, yeah?
Who is talking about getting wet inside? Have you heard about Xrays? My question again......is putting your hand in fire and getting burned shoddy workmanship or your fault? If you think Xrays are same as sunlight then please go get an Xray or CT scan done without protecting yourself and see what happens. Also read up about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Putting your hand in fire deliberately is sheer stupidity! Nothing to do with workmanship. It is like driving in your new shiny mercedes benze over cliff and hoping to survive. This is nothing do with workmanship but sheer lunacy
Finally, you answer. Thank you. Nothing left to talk about now. From now on I will try my best not to respond to you again if you start this kind of line of reasoning and putting words in my mouth. brickwall
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Salaam Joe,
There are fairly pragmatic means by which people can bring about change to themselves. Such as exercise and personality make-overs. Would this be the department of shaitan as well considering that considerable changes can be made through these practical methods?
I can't see that exercising is from al shai6an. Exercising, taking care of your body, cleaning your body, minding your body by, for example, wearing the right clothes to protect it from the heat, the cold, rough sandstorms, etc.. all this cannot be from the shai6an. On the contrary, what al shai6an wants you to do is to convince you to move less, and to also expose and show your body (flesh) as much as possible, because, I believe, that is how he will control you through the eyes of others. And so when one falls victim to that, victim to the judgment and evaluation of others, he or she will try to look in a way that would please others, in order to be accepted and approved. And he/she would do whatever it takes to look, as you say, sexier, more attractive, etc. And this will never end, simply because it is really hard work to please others all the time. So if one is preoccupied with that, with how others would see them, and so accept them, then what are the chances for this cycle to end?
If one wants to be modest is the change evil?
How can being modest be of al shai6an?
When does it become the domain of shaitan?
When one stops listening to their heart and starts paying attention to what others say about them and how they think of them. That is when the shai6an is clearly taking control of that person.
To the Shai6an, the only person in this world who does not need to change her looks is miss universe! But even she herself fell victim to al shaitan and so desperately ?needed? to be validated by judges (others) in order to pass the beauty pageant!
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Peace Taj, Joe,
To the Shai6an, the only person in this world who does not need to change her looks is miss universe! But even she herself fell victim to al shaitan and so desperately ?needed? to be validated by judges (others) in order to pass the beauty pageant!
You must be kidding ! You think even after she became miss universe she is not concerned about her looks and is now left alone by Iblees? twisted
There are fairly pragmatic means by which people can bring about change to themselves. Such as exercise and personality make-overs.
I think in the relevant ayat (4119) it is being talked about a PERMANENT IRREVERSIBLE PHYSICAL change in creation and not just exercise or personality make-overs.
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If by standing in sunlight radiation causes birth defects then I say it is shoddy workmanship!
Who talked about sunlight? Have you heard about Xrays? Do you know about different kinds of radiation? Please go study about it and then talk about it. Are you really....... (I do not want to make any personal remarks).
...erm RADIATION is sunlight as in RAY-DIATION from the Sun? -)
Sunlight gives you skin cancer. So God's Perfect Creation is prone to radiation damage? -)
May be humans can improve on that yeah ? -)But if your new shiny mercedeez benzes gets wet inside in the rain then thats shoddy workmanship! If exposure of humans to earthly environments causes birth defects in newborn then it is shoddy workmanship in the design of humans, yeah?
Who is talking about getting wet inside?
Well its like this. Rain is the environment. If you get wet inside your new mercedez benz then it is shoddy workmanship because one of its purpose of your shiny mercedes is to protect you from the environment. Its purpose is not to stop you if you decide deliberately to drive off a cliff. Likewise, if exposure of humans to earthy natural environment leads to birth defects then it is shoddy workmanship, yeah?
If you think Xrays are same as sunlight then please go get an Xray or CT scan done without protecting yourself and see what happens. Also read up about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
You don't get it do you?
People were born deformed BEFORE hiroshima and nagasaki!
So humans perfect creation is prone to natural earthly environments leading to birht defects?Putting your hand in fire deliberately is sheer stupidity! Nothing to do with workmanship. It is like driving in your new shiny mercedes benze over cliff and hoping to survive. This is nothing do with workmanship but sheer lunacy
Finally, you answer. Thank you. Nothing left to talk about now. From now on I will try my best not to respond to you again. brickwall
You don't get it do you? Of course not! because we were created PERFECT? but say exposure to earthly environments degrades this perfection yeah? then I say to you that is SHODDY WORKMANSHIP!
brickwall-) -)
Regards,
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You don't get it do you? Of course not! because we were created PERFECT? but say exposure to earthly environments degrades this perfection yeah? then I say to you that is SHODDY WORKMANSHIP!
Once again.....did I talk about rain or sunlight causing birth defects? flag
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Hello Lote,
I tried the gym once. Almost passed out on the exercise machine!! -)
That still shouldn't stop you from working out. But check first with your physician.
Yes, I did try it out but realised that gym is not for me -)
Do you do gym? Are gyms popular in Saudi Arabia?I was watching the movie "Frida" the other day. She married Diego Rivera who happened to lack all the features you mentioned above. Her parents thought the couple was like an elephant marrying a dove!!!
Hey I have not heard of Frida or Diego Rivera. Who are these people?
You can do a search at yahoo for "an elephant marrying a dove, Frida".
Regards,
Oh the revolutionary artist Frida? she had a deformity in the right leg due to polio. And Diego is indeed a large man !! But their marriage was about love was it not? and you know what they say about love?
Love is blind! -)Regards,
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You don't get it do you? Of course not! because we were created PERFECT? but say exposure to earthly environments degrades this perfection yeah? then I say to you that is SHODDY WORKMANSHIP!
Once again.....did I talk about rain or sunlight causing birth defects? flag
This is what you written previously
Having said that, congenital abnormalities and birth defects are our fault and not The God's. It depends on if the mother used some drug while she was pregnant, or exposed to radiation or environmental pollutants or carcinogens or viral infections etc. All those things are OUR FAULT that we subjected our children to some kind of environmental insult, damaging the child ourselves. The God has perfected the creation and is not responsible for our faults.
So my question to you was if exposure to the enviroment or viral infections leads to birth defects (and viral infections is something we can't do nothing about apart from to live in a vacuum chamber!), then we have been designed badly, yeah? This must be a sign of shoddy workmanship, yeah? -)
Regards,
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So my question to you was if exposure to the enviroment or viral infections leads to birth defects (and viral infections is something we can't do nothing about apart from to live in a vacuum chamber!), then we have been designed badly, yeah? This must be a sign of shoddy workmanship, yeah?
If people adopt commonsense methods of hygiene and appropriate precautions they can avoid almost all viral infections very easily. Also if we eat healthy food and adopt healthy life style our immune system can resist and successfully overcome almost any viral infection. It is usually our fault when we get an infection that overwhelms us.
The creation has been perfected but can still be damaged due to fire or radiation or serious viral infections due to its own fault. It is just like putting your hand in fire. How is that shoddy workmanship?
If something is designed perfectly but your ignorance how to maintain it properly causes damage to it is that shoddy workmanship or your fault?
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Hello Lote,
Yes, I did try it out but realised that gym is not for me -)
Do you do gym? Are gyms popular in Saudi Arabia?I suppose you live in a place with a nice weather where you can take a walk or a jog in a park and breathe fresh air (Wow D ). Luckily to you the gym is not the only place to workout. Unlike here x
Here, we have no alternative but to workout indoors. So the gym is the only place. There are gyms for women ONLY of course, but now almost every family here have their home gym, as men are not very keen on letting their women and daughters go out to gyms, although even at the gyms, women would still be well tucked!I have never been to a gym abroad SA, nor will I ever be I suppose, but I have seen few in some movies only. I don't think that they are comfortable environment for beginners. They seem like they are good only for competitive levels. Those advanced would just scare you away, won?t they? Don?t go near them, I say! Find a place where you would feel mostly comfortable and make a short-term plan and stick to it! yessir
I was watching the movie "Frida" the other day. She married Diego Rivera who happened to lack all the features you mentioned above. Her parents thought the couple was like an elephant marrying a dove!!!
Oh the revolutionary artist Frida? she had a deformity in the right leg due to polio. And Diego is indeed a large man !! But their marriage was about love was it not? and you know what they say about love?
Love is blind! -)That is my point
So would you again say that women want looks?Regards,
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Hello TAJ,
Yes, I did try it out but realised that gym is not for me
Do you do gym? Are gyms popular in Saudi Arabia?I suppose you live in a place with a nice weather where you can take a walk or a jog in a park and breathe fresh air (Wow ). Luckily to you the gym is not the only place to workout. Unlike here
I would not say always "nice" weather but "unpridictable" weather, neither blisteringly hot nor chillingly cold but we can have these too sometimes!
As a youngster I was raised in the great outdoors with green open fields and rivers flowing through the villages. Here is a poem that sums up my experience of the countryside
"Daffodils"
I WANDERED lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee
A poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company
I gazed--and gazed--but little thought
What wealth the show to me had broughtFor oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.-by William Wordsworth
Here, we have no alternative but to workout indoors.
Yes, I suspected that. Can't see anyone joggin in the Arabian heat!
So the gym is the only place. There are gyms for women ONLY of course, but now almost every family here have their home gym, as men are not very keen on letting their women and daughters go out to gyms, although even at the gyms, women would still be well tucked!
Wow, every family has their own gym! People here have no choice but to pay Extortionate amounts yearly to join gyms! As for women exercising while well tucked in - that must be dangerous.
I have never been to a gym abroad SA, nor will I ever be I suppose, but I have seen few in some movies only. I don't think that they are comfortable environment for beginners. They seem like they are good only for competitive levels. Those advanced would just scare you away, won?t they? Don?t go near them, I say! Find a place where you would feel mostly comfortable and make a short-term plan and stick to it!
Modern gyms here indeed have become crowded affair. It is always busy and full of people and can be very off putting for a beginner! and if you are shapless blob like me it can be bit awkard and little scary walking on to the treadmill ! -) For me a game of badminton is a good work out and a good swim in the swiming-pool!
Oh the revolutionary artist Frida? she had a deformity in the right leg due to polio. And Diego is indeed a large man !! But their marriage was about love was it not? and you know what they say about love?
Love is blind!That is my point
So don't say women want looks! And Frida is one case of millions!But TAJ love is the hardest thing in the world!
Love is like a stake through your heart
And though you bleed from this wound, you don't die!
And though you wish for death, the death does not come.
Just kidding -)But I understand what you mean! -)
Regards,
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Hello Lote,
The poem is really beautiful; but of course roll
Wow, every family has their own gym! People here have no choice but to pay Extortionate amounts yearly to join gyms! As for women exercising while well tucked in - that must be dangerous.
The home gyms are not to be compared with the ordinary gyms. Basically, they contain a treadmill, a recumbent and a rowing machine and some iron, and they would usually sit there to collect dust. Most people here are not so committed to working out.
I don't know what you understood from my statement "women would still be well tucked!" I didn't say "tucked in"!
I meant that they would still be covered, not much flesh showing even though the gym is only for women. Here, to freely show some flesh is equal to disrespect. Women don't like that. I would say it is because they are very very shy. It is the way we are brought up.For me a game of badminton is a good work out and a good swim in the swimming-pool!
Everyone is light inside water
But TAJ love is the hardest thing in the world!
Love is like a stake through your heart
And though you bleed from this wound, you don't die!
And though you wish for death, the death does not come.
Just kiddingKidding!?
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Hello TAJ,
Hello Lote,
The poem is really beautiful; but of course rollIf you ever decide to travel to places, do come and see the daffodils here -)
I meant that they would still be covered, not much flesh showing even though the gym is only for women. Here, to freely show some flesh is equal to disrespect. Women don't like that. I would say it is because they are very very shy. It is the way we are brought up.
I see. As a youngster we ran half naked in the open fields.
You not shy too are you? you don't write in a shy manner though -)For me a game of badminton is a good work out and a good swim in the swimming-pool!
Everyone is light inside water )
Yes and feels good too -)
But TAJ love is the hardest thing in the world!
Love is like a stake through your heart
And though you bleed from this wound, you don't die!
And though you wish for death, the death does not come.
Just kidding )Kidding!?
-) -) -)
As for plastic surgery, I am thinking of having my eye lasered to correct my short-sightedness. Just a very slight correction to God's perfection
-)Regards,
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Hello Lote,
As for plastic surgery, I am thinking of having my eye lasered to correct my short-sightedness. Just a very slight correction to God's perfection
Surgeries to fix something inside our bodies, whether minor or major, are not considered plastic surgeries.
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Peace all.
Iblees despised Adam (humans) from day one. He considered him (them) of a lower/lesser substance (clay). So he took it upon himself to prove to God that humans too feel the same way about themselves and so started convicing humans to change themsleves whenever and however possible.
Taj, thank you for this reminder. I very much needed it today. D
Oh joy! LT, I love Wordsworth, too! I started to put up a "daisy" to go with your "daffodils" but I think the one below suits my mood today. wink And maybe fits with the folly of constantly seeking the good opinions of others, especially when it comes to looks.
Yes, It was the Mountain Echo,
Solitary, clear, profound,
Answering to the shouting Cuckoo,
Giving to her sound for sound!Unsolicited reply
To a babbling wanderer sent;
Like her ordinary cry,
Like--but oh, how different!Hears not also mortal Life?
Hear not we, unthinking Creatures!
Slaves of folly, love, or strife--
Voices of two different natures?Have not 'we' too?--yes, we have
Answers, and we know not whence;
Echoes from beyond the grave,
Recognised intelligence!Such rebounds our inward ear
Catches sometimes from afar--
Listen, ponder, hold them dear;
For of God,--of God they are. -
Peace Sytalls,
Peace all.
Iblees despised Adam (humans) from day one. He considered him (them) of a lower/lesser substance (clay). So he took it upon himself to prove to God that humans too feel the same way about themselves and so started convicing humans to change themsleves whenever and however possible.
Taj, thank you for this reminder. I very much needed it today.
I am glad that you found what I wrote useful, even if just for one day
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Salaamun alaikum Taj,
I don't know what you understood from my statement "women would still be well tucked!" I didn't say "tucked in"!
Is that why the lady in your avatar is well tucked? .....o0(is that Taj in the avatar?) ?
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Peace Taj.
Oh noooo...it's useful every day. Just needed an extra reminder yesterday. And it was one of those things where your post jumped right out at me, even though I really hadn't been following this particular thread and my mindset had nothing to do with physical appearance.
Since I'm following Brother Ayman's evaluation for Ramadan, I've noticed with fasting that I cycle through thoughts and emotions that seem to be waiting for a chance to reveal themselves and be dealt with. But this has nothing to do with nose jobs or tummy tucks, so I'd better take this over to the proper category.