Plastic surgery ... allowed or prohibiteD ?
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Peace all.
Iblees despised Adam (humans) from day one. He considered him (them) of a lower/lesser substance (clay). So he took it upon himself to prove to God that humans too feel the same way about themselves and so started convicing humans to change themsleves whenever and however possible.
Taj, thank you for this reminder. I very much needed it today. D
Oh joy! LT, I love Wordsworth, too! I started to put up a "daisy" to go with your "daffodils" but I think the one below suits my mood today. wink And maybe fits with the folly of constantly seeking the good opinions of others, especially when it comes to looks.
Yes, It was the Mountain Echo,
Solitary, clear, profound,
Answering to the shouting Cuckoo,
Giving to her sound for sound!Unsolicited reply
To a babbling wanderer sent;
Like her ordinary cry,
Like--but oh, how different!Hears not also mortal Life?
Hear not we, unthinking Creatures!
Slaves of folly, love, or strife--
Voices of two different natures?Have not 'we' too?--yes, we have
Answers, and we know not whence;
Echoes from beyond the grave,
Recognised intelligence!Such rebounds our inward ear
Catches sometimes from afar--
Listen, ponder, hold them dear;
For of God,--of God they are. -
Peace Sytalls,
Peace all.
Iblees despised Adam (humans) from day one. He considered him (them) of a lower/lesser substance (clay). So he took it upon himself to prove to God that humans too feel the same way about themselves and so started convicing humans to change themsleves whenever and however possible.
Taj, thank you for this reminder. I very much needed it today.
I am glad that you found what I wrote useful, even if just for one day
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Salaamun alaikum Taj,
I don't know what you understood from my statement "women would still be well tucked!" I didn't say "tucked in"!
Is that why the lady in your avatar is well tucked? .....o0(is that Taj in the avatar?) ?
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Peace Taj.
Oh noooo...it's useful every day. Just needed an extra reminder yesterday. And it was one of those things where your post jumped right out at me, even though I really hadn't been following this particular thread and my mindset had nothing to do with physical appearance.
Since I'm following Brother Ayman's evaluation for Ramadan, I've noticed with fasting that I cycle through thoughts and emotions that seem to be waiting for a chance to reveal themselves and be dealt with. But this has nothing to do with nose jobs or tummy tucks, so I'd better take this over to the proper category.
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Oh joy! LT, I love Wordsworth, too! I started to put up a "daisy" to go with your "daffodils" but I think the one below suits my mood today. wink And maybe fits with the folly of constantly seeking the good opinions of others, especially when it comes to looks.
I love the "daisy" poem too!!! -)
Such rebounds our inward ear
Catches sometimes from afar--
Listen, ponder, hold them dear;
For of God,--of God they are.A true poet-mystic!!! -)
Regards,
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This thread is very pertinent to me as was just discussig the issue of tattoos with a friend today. After reading the same verse as quoted (an nisa 119) we both came to the conclusion that tattoos would not be permitted. i've been thinking about it since then though and to be honest i'm not entirely certain exactly what is meant by "the creation". In no way does it explicitly refer to humans, in fact the sentence prior was refering to the cutting of cattle's ears and so it could be possible that the reference to creation was a continuance of that thought.
if by creation it just means all of god's creation then we would be severely limited in all that we do. Cutting down a tree to build a house would be an example of altering god's creation. As would damming a river or furnishing a cave. Does anybody have any other quran references on this subject that cold help clarify? Currently I am of the position that creation refers to us, people. To be honest though I am aware that I have been influenced by people presenting this verse as evidence against cosmetic surgery/tattooing, I am not 100% certain that if i had just read it with nobody putting ideas into my head i would necessarily concluded "ok this verse shows that altering your appearance is unacceptable"
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Peace ron mexico,
4119 "And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make change to God's creation." Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than God, then he has indeed lost a great loss.
4120 He promises them and makes them desire, but what the devil promises them is only vanity.I think the key words in these ayaat are "make them desire". The context is the devil misguiding us and making us desire i.e. anything to do with ego. Hence it follows that if we make a change in God's creation because of our EGO/DESIRES then it is taking the devil as a supporter and is indeed a great loss. Examples would be plastic surgery only for cosmetic reasons, just to look good/beautiful, or tattoos etc. However if a change in God's creation is made for a just reason for a just cause, e.g. medical reasons to eliminate a disease or illness, or cutting trees to build houses, or constructing dams etc. then IMO that is ok because it is not coming from our egoistic desires but due to just cause or definite needs. Hope that helps.
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Peace Khadija,
Whoever gets braces on teeth knows deep down inside his/her heart if he/she is getting them for egoistic purposes or for justifiable medical/dental reasons.
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Peace ron mexico,
4119 "And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make change to God's creation." Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than God, then he has indeed lost a great loss.
4120 He promises them and makes them desire, but what the devil promises them is only vanity.I think the key words in these ayaat are "make them desire". The context is the devil misguiding us and making us desire i.e. anything to do with ego. Hence it follows that if we make a change in God's creation because of our EGO/DESIRES then it is taking the devil as a supporter and is indeed a great loss. Examples would be plastic surgery only for cosmetic reasons, just to look good/beautiful, or tattoos etc. However if a change in God's creation is made for a just reason for a just cause, e.g. medical reasons to eliminate a disease or illness, or cutting trees to build houses, or constructing dams etc. then IMO that is ok because it is not coming from our egoistic desires but due to just cause or definite needs. Hope that helps.
Salam ron Mexico, Tanveer, Taj, all,
I have been following this pertinent debate but I couldn't see anything that would raise the issue of self-esteem. I think the verses posted by Brother Tanveer are strait forward. Devil's suggestions come in all forms and what is obvious for me in these verses is when the self-esteem plunges, the devil comes to the rescue and succeeds in having you as an ally. Other verses clearly describe how the devil assumes his role of supporter. The word used is "zayana" (from adornment) , he will make you believe what you do is legitimate and okay. So nowaday, we even see parents offering to their children for graduation, breast implant surgery gift or a nose lift surgery because it is "okay" to "feel good/beautiful" while the problem is much deeper because it is in the head. Satan makes us obsessed by how others perceive us and this is precisely how he keeps us away from the rememberance of the All-Mighty because our brain is busy processing only oumour al-dunya (earthly desires/affairs) to a point where God is shifted completly in the bottom in terms of priorities. It is very important to understand the influence of Satan on us and how it is manifested instead of trying to build up an entire philosophy on the verse above that is clear and strait forward. So my Brothers and Sisters, be aware that your happiness is not in whether you look like casimodo or brat pitt-) but it is in whether your self-esteem is built on foundations rooted in God the All-Mighty system or the human illusive system.
And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace and God blessings. Myr.
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So my Brothers and Sisters, be aware that your happiness is not in whether you look like casimodo or brat pitt -) but it is in whether your self-esteem is built on foundations rooted in God the All-Mighty system or
the human illusive system.But I say it is! Quasimodo could never have Esmeralda even though he loved her with his life and soul! Only thing Esmeralda give could him is Pity and compassion! And who wants Pity anyway?
When you are not happy with yourself, you are not happy with anything
-) believe me it is true!
A simple bent nose can have a devasting effect on one's self esteem!And this is always a ugly person's saying Looks don't matter!
because that is the only way to deal with the "ugly" reality.
-)And God the All-Mighty knows best.
I am afraid He did not in my case!
Unless you can find beauty in the Elephant Man?
-)Regards,
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Salaam Myr,
For me, all what you wrote above does not reflect the minimum of what should be the behavior, attitude, and thinking of someone who fears Allah, believes in Quran, and is interested in its wisdom.
Please do not be dissuaded by LoteTree's remarks. Just for your information and for all those who are not aware... Lote Tree does NOT believe that quran is the word of God.
I also assumed some time ago that he was a believer in quran, but was quickly corrected.
I hope this clears out any misunderstanding.
Peace
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Salam LotTree, all,
Seriously, I don't think you want to discuss the issue in the light of Quran and I really thought this forum is for a better understanding of issues in the light of Quran and what that means. For me, all what you wrote above does not reflect the minimum of what should be the behavior, attitude, and thinking of someone who fears Allah, believes in Quran, and is interested in its wisdom. Indeed, life has been made an adorment to you that you become a slave of it and its people and this is nothing else than the work of the cursed satan.
The subject is closed for me.
Peace and God blessings on you all. Myr.
Hello Myr,
Oh I am sorry you did not understand that I wrote in jest. If you had read my previous posts you would have understood that my posts are meant for humour on this thread!
Laughter is the sunshine that drives winter from human face sun
Just for your information Myr, I do not approach God, Religion and Scripture out of Fear. I have outgrown my childhood fear of Hell, Myr, because there is more to God than fearing Hell.
I approach God for understanding -)
If I upset you then my apologies...
Regards,
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Salaam Myr,
For me, all what you wrote above does not reflect the minimum of what should be the behavior, attitude, and thinking of someone who fears Allah, believes in Quran, and is interested in its wisdom.
Please do not be dissuaded by LoteTree's remarks. Just for your information and for all those who are not aware... Lote Tree does NOT believe that quran is the word of God.
I can speak for myself Zenje, I am still capable of stringing few sentences to answer Myr's question -) Let me thus answer in my way
Lote Tree believes - All scriptures are A TRUTH not the WHOLE truth. He believes that scriptures are a Guide to finding God but scripture is not God. And He does not make Idol out of any scripture.
And just like you people have outgrown Hadith and Sunnah, Lote Tree has outgrown all Scriptures.Lote Tree does NOT believe that quran is the word of God.
You say this as if it is something wrong. Let me ask you a question Zenje -Do you believe that you need to believe in Quran in order to believe in God?
Regards,
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Let me ask you a question Zenje -Do you believe that you need to believe in Quran in order to believe in God?
No.Lote Tree does NOT believe that quran is the word of God.
You say this as if it is something wrong.
I just said it like it is. Nothing wrong with that. )Peace
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Salaam Myr,
For me, all what you wrote above does not reflect the minimum of what should be the behavior, attitude, and thinking of someone who fears Allah, believes in Quran, and is interested in its wisdom.
Please do not be dissuaded by LoteTree's remarks. Just for your information and for all those who are not aware... Lote Tree does NOT believe that quran is the word of God.
I also assumed some time ago that he was a believer in quran, but was quickly corrected.
I hope this clears out any misunderstanding.
Peace
Salam Zenje,
Thank you for your message. I think there was a misunderstanding from my part, thinking that this forum is a forum of believers, in other words, Quran is taken seriously but I understand if the audience is not limited to believers.
Thank you again for your message. Peace. Myr. -
Hello Myr,
Salam Lotetree,
No harm done so no need to apologies.oh good -)
I understand your approach of God but I believe you have some misconceptions about fear and hell maybe because of the way you grew up and what you were taught as per your message above.
When you mentioned to Fear Allah, it meant to me God's wrath and punishment in Hell. But I have no complaint about "God" but rather I question our approaches to God. In fact the more I study the beauty and majesty of the Universe and everything in it the more admiration I have for my "God" and more I want to "Love" my "God". And the more I study the spirituality of humans being around the world the more I want to get in touch with my "God".
Regards,
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Peace everyone,
reading these last posts I see the word 'believer' used.
People of this forum are very careful about the words and the labels. The term 'muslim' has been widely discussed, also the terms 'islam', 'messenger', 'quran', and not only the words but even the spelling is very important for members of the forum, for instance, it is not the same to write Messenger than messenger, Quran than quran. and the grammar and morphology are very important too, it is not the same to use a word a a noun, or as an adjective or as a description.
I understand it very well and I join to this concern.
Thus, I would expect the same with the word 'believer' and its corresponding 'unbeliever'.
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ok i m back ... hehehe .. yeah ive thought of getting my nose straightened in the summers .. i mean this bent nose of mine is really putting me down .. i mean i cant really talk to people face to face .. whenever i go out ppl stare at me and i think its cus of my nose .. its really irritating !! i always compare myself to ppl around me who have good noses ... i mean why would God give someone a bent nose ... doenst He know how the person is going to feel who is being given the nose? ... I can even show a pic to u guys and u guys can judge for yourself ... !!!! How do you post pics here ?
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Peace,
You can go to imageshack and u/l your pics, but hmm...did it hurt?!? Is it healed?!? Are you happy now?!? I don't think I could ever consider plastic surgery tbh.
God gives according to a purpose. He takes according to a purpose. We are all born the way that we are and face the trials that we do according to a purpose, a plan if you will. He knows all. I think that's succinct enough.