Zayd, adopted son?
-
There seems to be a discrepancy between this translation and the commentary on it.
In the translation the verb HIDE in thou hid inside yourself is the Past Tense; whereas in the commentary it is treated as if it were the Present Tense You seek to conceal in your heart .
The same discrepancy pops up between what God wished to proclaim and what Allah intends to reveal; and between thou feared the people and You are afraid of people.
I would appreciat it if marie explained please.
As for the question whether prophets never fear people and they only fear God, that is only half the truth as it actually must mean that they should fear only God but they may fail to do so, like they should never prohibit what God allows but Prophet Mohammad did prohibit himself what God allowed (661).
Peace,
HasanPeace all,
Wa-ith taqoolu= And thou said
lillathee anAAama= to the one who (AAalayhi) was blessed
Allahu AAalayhi = by God
waanAAamta AAalayhi= and blessed by thou
amsik AAalayka zawjaka= ?Keep your wife
waittaqi Allaha= and reverence God,?
watukhfee fee nafsika= and thou hid inside yourself
ma Allahu mubdeehi = what God wished to proclaim
watakhsha alnnasa= And thou feared the people
waAllahu ahaqqu= whereas Allah is more appropriate
an takhshahu= to fear Him
falamma qada (past tence) zaydun= So when Zayd ended (qada)
minha wataran = his relationship with her (his wife)
zawwajnakaha (past tence) = We had thou marry her
likay la yakoona = to establish that there is no
AAala almu/mineena harajun= wrongdoing for the believers/ blame on the believers
fee azwaji adAAiya-ihim= in respect of spouses of their adopted children
itha qadaw minhunna wataran = if their relationship is ended
wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan= And God's command is always done / ahmad shabir And the Commandment of Allah must be fulfilled.(Contrary to many erroneous translations, the entire quote ?Hold on to your wife and be mindful of Allah. You seek to conceal in your heart what Allah intends to reveal. You are afraid of people whereas it is more appropriate to fear Allah.? is addressed to Zayd since Messengers fear none but Allah (3339). Also the admonition of the Prophet to Zayd clearly indicates that he, and not his wife, was at fault).
Happy reading
-
Peace all,
Peace be upon you sister Marie,
(Contrary to many erroneous translations, the entire quote ?Hold on to your wife and be mindful of Allah. You seek to conceal in your heart what Allah intends to reveal. You are afraid of people whereas it is more appropriate to fear Allah.? is addressed to Zayd since Messengers fear none but Allah (3339). Also the admonition of the Prophet to Zayd clearly indicates that he, and not his wife, was at fault).
Happy reading
Excellent point sister, I was always confused about the part of verse 3337 that "You seek to conceal in your heart what Allah intends to reveal. You are afraid of people whereas it is more appropriate to fear Allah"
I could not able to answer when people question me regarding this point. They used to point that Prophet was hiding in himself and interested in marrying Zayd's wife. But Alhamdulillah, a big issue has been solved.
May Allah give you the best rewards.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
Excellent point sister, I was always confused about the part of verse 3337 that "You seek to conceal in your heart what Allah intends to reveal. You are afraid of people whereas it is more appropriate to fear Allah"
I could not able to answer when people question me regarding this point. They used to point that Prophet was hiding in himself and interested in marrying Zayd's wife. But Alhamdulillah, a big issue has been solved.
May Allah give you the best rewards.
Regards,
MMKhan
Peace,
Are you sure "mubdeehi" means "reveal" ?
(in the sense of "to reveal the quran")Yusufali translates it by "to make manifest", and Pickthal "to bring to light".
-
Peace JM, Brook, all,
But, in "and thou hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim", what is it about ?
I think it is about the legitimacy of the marriage with the divorced spouses of the adopted sons.
According to my understanding, Zayd did not want to divorce because it bothered him that his adopted father (the prophet) has the right to marry his wife after he ended his relationship with her.There seems to be a discrepancy between this translation and the commentary on it.
In the translation the verb HIDE in thou hid inside yourself is the Past Tense; whereas in the commentary it is treated as if it were the Present Tense You seek to conceal in your heart .
The verb "tukhfee/thou hide" is in the Present Tense
The same discrepancy pops up between what God wished to proclaim and what Allah intends to reveal;
I think to intend is more adequate than to wish.
3336 underlies what the God intends to reveal/proclaim at the end of 3337 and may indicate that the God's messenger already knew the God's command about the marriage with the the divorced spouses of the adopted sons.and between thou feared the people and You are afraid of people.
I prefer thou fear
As for the question whether prophets never fear people and they only fear God, that is only half the truth as it actually must mean that they should fear only God but they may fail to do so, like they should never prohibit what God allows but Prophet Mohammad did prohibit himself what God allowed (661).
it is probable but I lean towards the first explanation because of what is said in 3336. I think it were Zyd who is bothered by what is revealed at the end of 3337.
The God knows best.
-
I think it is about the legitimacy of the marriage with the divorced spouses of the adopted sons.
I agree.
According to my understanding, Zayd did not want to divorce...
The verse does not support this understanding because the Prophet said to Zayd, "Hold on to your wife!" It is clear that Zayd wanted to divorce his wife, but the Prophet adviced him against it.
...because it bothered him that his adopted father (the prophet) has the right to marry his wife after he ended his relationship with her.
That is also very unlikely because, as I tried to explain above, Zayd had already made up his mind to divorce her.
It would make no difference to him who she would marry after he divorced her especially in terms of the recently revealed fact that adopted sons and fathers were not biological relatives contrary to the prevalent superstition (334).
The Prophet needed Zayd's help to convince the idolworshippers to give it up, and Zayd must have been close enough to the Prpohet to give him a helping hand.
It is also understood from the verse that it was God's decision that the Prophet marry his ex-adopted son's ex-wife so that the idolworshippers would be convinced that it was natural.
Verse 4 had already been revealed and the Prophet must already have read it to the idolworshippers and explained its contents to them. However it is understood that they not only refused to abide by it but also threatened the Prophet that if he insisted they would kill him.
That must have frightened the Prophet to the deadth.
The verb "tukhfee/thou hide" is in the Present Tense.
Although it seems to be the other way around, I will not argue about it now. Anyway, even if it were the Present Tense, nothing would change.
God addresses the Prpohet in the verse and scolds him "You are afraid of the people although you ought to fear only God."
Peace,
Hasan -
Peace Hasan,
I change my mind about 3336. It seems logical that the underlined verbs were adressed to the prophet not to zayd
- And thou said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you ?Keep your wife and reverence God,? and thou hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And thou feared the people, while it was God thou were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
Wa-ith taqoolu lillatheeanAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi amsik AAalaykazawjaka waittaqi Allaha watukhfee fee nafsika maAllahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahuahaqqu an takhshahu falamma qadazaydun minha wataran zawwajnakahalikay la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajunfee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadawminhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
The grammar supports this understanding, this is not the same tense when the God adressed the prophet and when the prophet adressed his adopted son ( this is an amr/order amsik/keep and ittaqi/reverence).
The underlined verbs are in the present tense but it is not false to use the past tense in the translation. At the time of the revelation, the prophet was adressed that he says (taqool present tense) not he said (qulta past tense), idem for the verb akhfa (to hide), tukhfee (present tense) and not akhfayta (past tense)...etc.
Peace
-
Peace,
Peace be upon you and all in Islam,
Are you sure "mubdeehi" means "reveal" ?
(in the sense of "to reveal the quran")No brother, it cannot mean reveal as the word NZL has been used for reveal.
Yusufali translates it by "to make manifest", and Pickthal "to bring to light".
Not sure about these translations. But unfortunately, I don't find the same word used in AlQuraan anywhere else.
If anyone knows the usage of same word or its root in AlQuraan please do let me know.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
I see you are all hard at word trying to twist the arabic language to clean up the Quran....
A big Task!!!!
-
Peace Hasan,
I change my mind about 3336. It seems logical that the underlined verbs were adressed to the prophet not to zayd
- And thou said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by you ?Keep your wife and reverence God,? and thou hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And thou feared the people, while it was God thou were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
Wa-ith taqoolu lillatheeanAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi amsik AAalaykazawjaka waittaqi Allaha watukhfee fee nafsika maAllahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahuahaqqu an takhshahu falamma qadazaydun minha wataran zawwajnakahalikay la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajunfee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadawminhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
The grammar supports this understanding, this is not the same tense when the God adressed the prophet and when the prophet adressed his adopted son ( this is an amr/order amsik/keep and ittaqi/reverence).
The underlined verbs are in the present tense but it is not false to use the past tense in the translation. At the time of the revelation, the prophet was adressed that he says (taqool present tense) not he said (qulta past tense), idem for the verb akhfa (to hide), tukhfee (present tense) and not akhfayta (past tense)...etc.
Peace
Salaamun Alaikum Marie and all in Islam,
Sister, I would like to ask here why are we bringing in the Prophet or Messenger of Allah in this verse? This might be the case of someone else. Zyad could be an adopted son of someone else. Is there no possibility? Indeed, there is
Allah is very specific in His Quraan. As I say always, all the words used is specifically used in every verse. And it got a purpose.
3336
3337
3338
3339
3340
You can notice that how clearly Allah has mentioned in each verse regarding Messenger and Prophet. But in 3337 there is no mentioned of either Messenger or Prophet but "Ka" has been used which can be used for anybody and it cannot be ONLY refering to Prophet Mohammed.
And 3339 is clear enough to understand the standards of Messengers of Allah. There is no way of any Messenger doing such things showing in 3337
Is 933-11 all refering ONLY to the Prophet?
And the following is clear enough to see the usage of "Ka" inshaAllah.
801
He frowned and turned away. 801
Who is He? Prophet Mohammed? No way!802
When the blind one came to him. 802
Please note that "Hu" is used instead of "Ka". So, who is Him here? Is this still refering to Prophet Mohammed? If so, then how about the next verse?803
And what makes you know, perhaps he is seeking to purify? 803
You? If "Hu" is refering to Prophet Mohammed 802 then whom is "Ka" refering to in 803?If you understand this, then who is mentioned in 3337?
Surely not Prophet Mohammed.
All comments or corrections are welcome.
Regards,
MMKhan
-
I see you are all hard at word trying to twist the arabic language to clean up the Quran....
A big Task!!!!
I could have said the same thing to your regarding the Greek language in this post, but of course how dare we have a different translation and interpretation then what is commonly viewed, that right is reserved for Albion alone
-
Salam brother mmkhan,
You make a good analyze but 3338 let me think that 3337 is about the prophet.
We could be sure about one point, it is not Zayd who is adressed by the underlind verbs in 3337.
3337...We had thou marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
- There is no blame on the prophet in doing anything that God has decreed upon him. Such was God's way with the people of old. And God's command is a determined duty.
thou concerns the prophet, if it is about another person, I think the God would adress him by using the article HE not THOU..
Another example similar than 3337
- And thou said to the one who was blessed by God, and blessed by thou ?Keep your wife and reverence God,? and thou hid inside yourself what God wished to proclaim. And thou feared the people, while it was God thou were supposed to fear. So when Zayd ended his relationship with his wife, We had you marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
Wa-ith taqoolu lillatheeanAAama Allahu AAalayhi waanAAamta AAalayhi amsik AAalaykazawjaka waittaqi Allaha watukhfee fee nafsika maAllahu mubdeehi watakhsha alnnasa waAllahuahaqqu an takhshahu falamma qadazaydun minha wataran zawwajnakahalikay la yakoona AAala almu/mineena harajunfee azwaji adAAiya-ihim itha qadawminhunna wataran wakana amru Allahi mafAAoolan
- When thou said to the believers ?Is it not enough for you that God would supply you with three thousand of the Angels sent down??
Ith taqoolu lilmu/mineena alanyakfiyakum an yumiddakum rabbukum bithalathati alafinmina almala-ikati munzaleena
Salam
-
3337...We had thou marry her, to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives of their adopted sons if their relationship is ended. And God's command is always done.
Yes it is one of Muhammads Self Serving Verses... just one of many...
-
Yes it is one of Muhammads Self Serving Verses... just one of many...
Yes, the above is another example of Albions Self Serving Posts... just one of many...
Why don't we have an ignore poster button on this forum so we can read significant posts instead of the litter? It's a rhetorical question btw...
-
My opinion is that the aim of verses is to highlight the following principles
- God's commands have to be implemented
- The messenger's commands have to be implemented too, if and only if they conform to God's commands
- the popular opinion has to play no role
(I am using Shakir's translation)
And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
One way of understanding this verse would be that all messenger's decision have to be obeyed. But verse shows a counter-example to this. In , the messenger asks Zayd to stay with his wife, and zayd has eventually divorced.
Some people might think that popular opinion is important, but, in , the messenger is said to have married the former wife of his adopted son, whereas the popular opinion was refusing it.
Marrying the wife of a real son is not permitted (), but an adopted son is not like a real son .And when you said to him to whom Allah had shown favor and to whom you had shown a favor "Keep your wife to yourself and be careful of (your duty to) Allah"; and you concealed in your soul what Allah would bring to light,
Muhammad was concealing in his soul that the marriage was a failure, and that Zayd and his wife would eventually divorce.
and you feared men, and Allah had a greater right that you should fear Him.
Muhammad feared that people would criticize him if he did not manage to convince Zayd an his wife to stay together.
But, as it was only his personal decision, God reminds him that his only duty is to implement God's rules.But when Zaid had accomplished his want of her, We gave her to you as a wife,
Here, we should not conclude that God has ordered him in a private revelation to marry Zayd's former wife.
This kind of formulation is frequent in the Quran, and should not be understood in this way...
Everything in the universe follows God's laws laws of physics, biology, psychology, etc...
We, as human, live according to these laws ; we react according to these laws, think and use our brain according to these laws, fall in love according to these laws...
In , God is said to have taught the believers to train dogs. But, there were no revelation. The believers have learned to train the dogs just as using their brains.
So, in , God says that circumstances of life (that all work according to his laws) have made Muhammad marry her.so that there should be no difficulty for the believers in respect of the wives of their adopted sons, when they have accomplished their want of them; and Allah's command shall be performed.
Again, God insists on the fact that his rules should be prevalent over everything, including popular opinion.
There is no harm in the Prophet doing that which Allah has ordained for him; such has been the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and the command of Allah is a decree that is made absolute
God has ordained the prophet (as well as the believers) to follow his rules, and there should be no harm on this.
Hope it helps,
Peace
-
Peace,
wa ith taqoolu = and when you said
li llathee anAAama Allahu AAalayhi = to who favoured The God on him
wa anAAamta AAalayhi = and you favoured on him
amsik AAalayka zawjaka = hold on on/to you your wife
wa ittaqi Allaha = and be mindful The God
wa tukhfee fee nafsika = and you hid in yourself
ma Allahu mubdeehi = what The God showing it
wa takhsha al nnasa = and you fear the people
wa Allahu ahaqqu an takhshahu = and The God His Right that you fear Him
fa lamma qada zaydun minha wataran = so when ended zayd from her relationship
zawwajnakaha = We married her to you
likay la yakoona AAala al mumineena harajun = so that not be on the believers blame
fee azwaji adAAiya-ihim = in wives called after them
itha qadaw minhunna wataran = when ended from them relationship
wa kana amru Allahi mafAAoolan = and is/was command The God doneWilson
-
Peace be upon you Mu'Min,
Please give in your words what you think it is saying. I still cant grasp it.
-
Peace,
I think we both know the traditional interpretation of this verse.
But I think there might be something in your discontent with the understanding of "zayd" as a proper noun...
"fa lamma qada zaydun minha wataran"
so when ended 'zaydun' from her 'wataran'.Let's see what happens if we don't treat it as a proper noun.
so when ended increase/growth from her 'wataran'.Muhamad Ahmed & Samira translate wataran as 'need/desire';
Shakir translates it as 'want';
Hilali & Khan translate it as 'desire'....so when ended increase from her need/desire/want...
I don't know ? if this makes any sense or if at all it's correct according to grammatical rules;
but like Wakas this is out of my league at present...Wilson
-
Peace be upon you,
Yes, it is out of my league currently as well, but I thank you for the help in translating the verse in another method that I "FEEL" might be correct once the context is truly understood.