Comments on "What is Religion?"
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If everything in the heavens has submitted to His ?religion?, then who are we to argue?
It is actually simple, and I am really amazed that we human should be compared with planets and mountains. First of all human beings have never been given the absolute evidence that a God had created us and it is that same God send us prophets to deliver his message/religion/system, let alone that those religions are conflicting one another. Secondly, humans are unlike mountains or planets that are not given intelligence or the ability of choice. Besides, all religions are talking about Satan who can influence our choices. There is no wonder that human beings are the only creature (Known to us) that has the ability of choice. They call this the freewill. However, the freewill is nothing but a by-product of our ability to live in a dual-natured world with a dual-natured self. It is a fact that our life is based on good and evil and both are just a result of ?knowing and not knowing? which resulted from the second we were separated from the absolute knowledge regarding our creator.
So back to your question, who are we to argue? We are the ones that were given the ability to argue and as long as there is confusion, uncertainty and lack of faith, as long as we live in this duality and unable to grasp the truth due to the lack of it, we would always argue. The fact is we have to argue, that is how God created us. That is why God promised to guide us, reveal the meaning of his holly books to us in his own way and at a personal level. So every human eventually gets there. It is those of us who always try to take the initiative and think that we could help others to the right path to God.Yet, the funny thing is, with all these obvious problems, people still TURN-AWAY from the PERFECT religion?
They cannot believe that GOD can provide them with better than what they can come-up with!.
They cannot understand that He who creates, is NOT like one who is created!.It is true, that is funny. But people are not turning away from the perfect obvious religion, that is not true, people simply do not know where that perfect religion is. You must agree with me that it is not as simple as you are describing it. The religion that exists today is not the one that God sent us, what has happened to the perfect religion is that it is not any more perfect since man interfered and manipulated it. Even if the Quran is still reserved, it is hard, without God?s guidance, for a human to easily comprehend. I would say what is needed is faith. When will we truly face the facts? Every religion is pretending to be obvious and perfect, yet they are not. They are not meant to be obvious and perfect in a clear straightforward way. Religion is just like everything else in our world and life, it lacks the one thing that God did not wish to give us, the absolute knowledge. Let me tell you what I mean.
Imagine a man lives alone with his son. They both know that stealing is a sin and it is an offence, yet they are very poor and the man does from time to time steal from the local supermarket and so does the son. They both steal because they are in need and they think if the do not steal, they would not have enough for dinner. You could say that they have no faith in God or absolute knowledge that if they just stop stealing and rely on and pray to God, they would somehow be well feed at the end of the day. Now, the father knows his son very well and he knows he could steal from everyone but his son, since he knows him, loves him, and regards him to be one with him and his son is undivided part of his life. This is what I call absolute knowing. The son on the other hand does not have to have the same feelings for his father, he may know him well and loves him but he does not feel one with him, he has his own life besides his father. And in that case the son does from time to time steal from his father. Should the son knows that sealing from his father would affect his own life as well, he would refrain from stealing.
We were created as separate individual, with separate desires and selfishness, and this is a fact. This separation was created by our lack of knowledge that we are one consciousness from one God. God meant it this way. The lack of knowledge has also gave birth to something very fundamental in our life, fear. Both fear and lack of knowledge are the opposites of what God is, all knowing and loving. Life is now mixed with those ingredients that we all have to face in our life time and religion can only help guiding us and create a balance but can not stop God?s will. And that is why religion can never be perfect or obvious. It is born in duality like us and it is based on good and evil, punishment and forgiveness, heaven and hell while God is absolute. Our behaviour is based on Love and Fear, which is duality, and religion is based on the same duality. God has created this duality for a reason but that does not mean, as religion claims, that God himself is part of this duality since duality was created by our separation and lack of knowledge and lack love.
To be continued?.
God bless
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Religion is - Ritualisation of human spirituality?
And therefore all religions are indeed man-made.
Regards,
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SaLaM openurmind
First of all, briliant article.
When i look at how adam was sent to earth. I , no doubt, have conflicted feelings about it. On one hand, i want to beleive that God somehow materialized Adam and Eve on earth. But that just sounds too Star Trek to me. Then i look at the theory , which i am still giving much thought, about evolution.
When i was working as a butcher, there was an atheist guy working with me. ME and him often got in heated arguments over God. One day, he asked me "Prove existance of God" and i said "I am here right now talking to you about God" . Ofcourse i didnt explain to thim the logic behind that. I was a hater of God. A staunch one at that. And during this period of my life, i did things which i have no word to describe. Anyways, one day i asked God to show me something and God did. For me, that is proof enough. That was my proof.
When spiderman was sitting next to his grandma, she said, With great power comes great responsibility
I agree. Humans have been given this GIFT from God of having a free will. OFcourse you would think we would use it responsibly. But look no further than 500 years and you will see how responsible we really have been. Sometimes i find animals are better at human in judgement.
Religion can NEVER be perfect. Look at judaism, christianity, Islam, hunduism, bhaism (or something like that). They ALL claim to be THE religion. And all of full of flaws. Full of innovations. As long as people follow religion, they will be wrong. God has never siad in ANY of thebooks that i am sending you a religion called Judaism, christianity or Islam. You wont find those words in the scripture. All man made. God says in the Quran. You were all living just fine together. ITs when i sent the scripture you all started fighting each other. Sad isnt it? I visited a sunni forum the other day and i was horrified at what was going on there. A guy wanted to KNOW about ahmadis. And he was being abused verbally from nearly everyone for even thinking about it. This is what happens when man takes matters into his/her own hand.
We were created as separate individual, with separate desires and selfishness, and this is a fact.
As someone said, Humans are born capable of horrible things. But still, their spirit came from God. God breathed life into us. We have , if not all, SOME knowledge of right and wrong. Maybe we DO have the completel knowledge within our brains. But considering we are using only a small part of it, i am not supprised that we are in this mess we created for ourselves.
I think about it sometimes. "Does God know binary?" i sometimes say to myself. Lolll. Well, humans created binary. Not God. But God gave us the knowledge of creating binary.
I am a programmer. Sometimes when programming, i say, "I wonder if God knew how to program this". And then i think, God gave me the knowledge to work around this problem . So maybe God IS ALL KNOWING.
What is religion? Its a joke that has made humans the laughing stock of the unierse for 1000s of years.
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Religion is - Ritualisation of human spirituality?
That is not 'religion' or in arabic Al-Deen,
Ritualisation of human spirituality = Occultism003.019
003.019 Inna a(l)ddeena AAinda Allhi al-islmu
003.019 The Religion before Allah is IslamSo what is "Islam" ?? U can find the answer on the next verse.
003.020
003.020 Fa-in jjooka faqul aslamtu wajhiya lillhi wamani ittabaAAani waqul lillaeena ootoo alkitba wa(a)l(-)ommiyyeena aaslamtum fa-in aslamoo faqadi ihtadaw wa-in tawallaw fa-innam AAalayka albalghu wa(A)llhu baeerun bi(a)lAAibd(i)
003.020 So if they dispute with thee, say "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah's sight are (all) His servants.Okay.. now what is 'a religion' / 'al-deen' ?
016.036
016.036 Walaqad baAAathn fee kulli ommatin rasoolan ani oAAbudoo Allha wa(i)jtaniboo a(l)ghoota faminhum man had Allhu waminhum man aqqat AAalayhi a(l)allatu faseeroo fee al-ari fa(o)n{th}uroo kayfa kna AAqibatu almukaibeen(a)
016.036 For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil" of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied.022.067
022.067 Likulli ommatin jaAAaln mansakan hum nsikoohu fal yunziAAunnaka fee al-amri wa(o)dAAu il rabbika innaka laAAal hudan mustaqeem(in)
022.067 To every People have We appointed rites and ceremonies which they must follow let them not then dispute with thee on the matter, but do thou invite (them) to thy Lord for thou art assuredly on the Right Way.Note the do thou invite (them) to thy Lord and not do thou invite (them) to thy religion...
Thus
Religion or AL-Deen = Way of Life / Attitude towards God..
The best way of life / attitude towards God = Submission to His Will, aslamta lil rabbial-alamien -
Thus
Religion or AL-Deen = Way of Life / Attitude towards God..
The best way of life / attitude towards God = Submission to His Will, aslamta lil rabbial-alamienSalam Bro,
I did not dispute the meaning of religion, whether you call it system, way of life or submission, I do not really care much. What I was going about is that if I say I have a free mind, I should not come and ask silly questions. I can not ask dogs why they bark, or bees why they sting, similarly I should not ask humans why they argue.
As far as I am concerned, religion or God?s communication is something very personal. Any collective consciousness exists only outside our personal awareness. We create collective consciousness; however, we are unable to unite consciously to claim that we are one consciousness. God is aware of that and is also aware of our inability to unite in an absolute way. Therefore, a message from God could not be meant to be straightforward for all, but rather personal. I.e. every one of us should allow his/her instinct and intelligence to lead him/her towards what ultimately creates who we are. Let me tell you what I really think
The law of infinite existence
Life is infinite, whether we like/know it or not. God is all knowing, infinite and most intelligent. We are what our minds can be. We lack the knowledge, we are restricted by time, yet we are intelligent. The lack of knowledge (Regarding who we are and what we are capable of) created our sense of fear and our minds are here to protect us by creating a balance between the known and the unknown. As a result, our minds tend to create certain expectations that we sometime are hardly able to see behind them. We see what the mind is telling us to expect to see. In order for our mind to allow us to see more than what we are ready to comprehend, we would need realisations. Realisations take time, understanding and an open mind (Courage). So for our mind to see infinity, we have to open our minds and defeat time. For our minds to protect us, they tend to create rules and restrictions to support our expectations. Rules and restrictions are mostly created collectively, by groups and nations. The only force that works in our favour is our God given intelligence. Intelligence is a sense as well as glue. It is glue that holds the knowledge (energy) together to create form. It is a sense that we are capable of understanding. With intelligence we are able to break though expectations, rules and restrictions. Intelligence is telling us who we are and what we can be. It is the key towards infinity, towards God. Just ask yourself, why was I born intelligent without any knowledge? Ask yourself hundred times until you get the answer. Can religion tell you who you are? Whether it is a system or a phrase that means submission? Religion is an intelligent concept that was created at certain intelligent level to help you go forward, yet today it is nothing but a restriction to your level of intelligence. It is a tool that helps the mind to feel more comfortable by avoiding infinity and the urge to seek.The main questions are who we are and why we are here? Did religion answer those questions for you? Did you believe the answers? Are you now comfortable with the truth that religion is presenting you? The answer is no, no, no. Let me tell you why I think religion never answered those questions. Before our existence, this life did not exist. And this life is different from what existed before it. And the reasons behind our existence exited only in that which does not exist in our life todat. So, for the reasons to come to our current existence and be explained in a manner that we where we exist today can understand, it had to go through the same transformation that our existence had to go through in order for it to exist in a different way to the existence that existed before our existence. Then what we end up with is a version of reasons that are distorted in the same way that our existence is different from the existence that is behind our understanding today.
Does that sound too complicated? What about if you know everything and I know nothing? Would our judgement be the same? What if you wish to explain to me why we are different, would I understand? How could you explain to me your point of view if you are not first telling me what you know? How could I understand you if the realm where I live does not allow your absolute knowledge to exist? How could you deal with me when my mind is so dependant on a time frame that you do not experience and what you are trying to tell me could not exist in that frame of time that I am restricted to? Whatever you say would be interpreted by my restriction to mean something that you did not mean to say. And If I heartedly believe the information I have received from you it would create my new restriction to ever be able to understand what you truly wanted to say. So, you would better say nothing and let me first work around my frame of time to reach an understanding at my own pace.God bless
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As far as I am concerned, religion or God?s communication is something very personal. herefore, a message from God could not be meant to be straightforward for all, but rather personal. I.e. every one of us should allow his/her instinct and intelligence to lead him/her towards what ultimately creates who we are.
Agreed...
What about if you know everything and I know nothing? Would our judgement be the same?
005.069 Those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
IMHO No our judgement will not be the same... the one who was given more will be asked more... who was given less will be asked less..
Luke 1248 So to every to whom much was given, much will be demanded from him, and to whom they entrusted much, all the more they will ask of him.
What if you wish to explain to me why we are different, would I understand?
Its God's will and decree..
005.048 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way.If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
Whatever you say would be interpreted by my restriction to mean something that you did not mean to say. And If I heartedly believe the information I have received from you it would create my new restriction to ever be able to understand what you truly wanted to say. So, you would better say nothing and let me first work around my frame of time to reach an understanding at my own pace.
Al-Qiyama 075.016 - 19
Move not thy tongue to make haste therewith.
It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it
But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital
Nay more, it is for Us to explain itMatthew 77 "Be asking, and it will be given to you*; be seeking, and you* will find; be knocking, and it will be opened to you*.
Peace and God Bless
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Ritualisation of human spirituality = Occultism
This is the wiki definition
OccultThe word occult comes from Latin occultus (hidden), referring to the 'knowledge of the secret' or 'knowledge of the hidden' and often meaning 'knowledge of the supernatural', as opposed to 'knowledge of the visible' or 'knowledge of the measurable', usually referred to as science. The modern term's meaning is often imprecisely translated and used as a term for 'secret knowledge' or 'hidden knowledge', in the sense of meaning 'knowledge meant only for certain people' or 'knowledge that must be k
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OccultRituals - are like Salaat etc and there is nothing hidden about that ritual.
Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum guys,
This is a very interesting thread and many thanks Openurmind for starting this. I'd like to just ask the question
what makes a religion a religion and by this definition, is football hooliganism a religion (clue watch Football Factory).
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what makes a religion a religion and by this definition, is football hooliganism a religion (clue watch Football Factory).
Here is what wiki defines it
Religion, sometimes used interchangeably with faith, is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the practices and institutions associated with such belief.
Religion in the true sense of the word has an trascendent element while the hooliganism has not.
But you can also say Atheism is a Religion - It is a religion without a God.
So perhaps Religion=ritualisation of human spirituality perhaps a better definition?Regards,
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Shalom LT
Ok, Wiki definition duly noted. I challenge the limit of that definition though. I see a 'religion' to mean thus
Includes
-a belief system (football is life, millwall is evil)
-a uniform ( obviously the home and away t-shirts)
-an indentity (im a west ham fan, ur not, i'll kick your teeth in)
-mythologies (do u remember the time our goalie flew through the air yada yada)....what do you think of that, LT ?
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Shalom LT
Ok, Wiki definition duly noted. I challenge the limit of that definition though. I see a 'religion' to mean thus
Includes
-a belief system (football is life, millwall is evil)
-a uniform ( obviously the home and away t-shirts)
-an indentity (im a west ham fan, ur not, i'll kick your teeth in)
-mythologies (do u remember the time our goalie flew through the air yada yada)....what do you think of that, LT ?
Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
Regards,
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Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
It lacks a conventional metaphysics, yes. However, I think that its metaphysics which truly moves human beings. So people who have football as thier religion ultimately worship football which they subconsciously will take them to ultimate happiness.
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Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
It lacks a conventional metaphysics, yes. However, I think that its metaphysics which truly moves human beings. So people who have football as thier religion ultimately worship football which they subconsciously will take them to ultimate happiness.
Well you if you go beyond the conventional then anything is possible! -)
Some people will say sex gives them ulitmate happiness so sex can be their religion too? -)
Regards,
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Relegion is a hodge podge of silly stuff colaborated from all over the place. Its eclectic in its nature, and ALWAYS man made. However...spirituality is the direct connection between a man and his creator. Thus i view Quran not as a book of relegion, but rather a spiritual guide.
I try to remain intellectually honest about things ,and just as i can see that much of what is in the Bible is obviously based on lies, misconceptions, and basically things wich just arent true. I cannot intellectually defend Quran for the same reasons. THERE WAS NO ABRAHAM! PERIOD! end of sentence!
If you push the rabbis enough around they will tell you so, pesky characters. What we are dealing with is a lie that got its own life. However, I do belive in God strongly, i have had experiences removing every single shred of doubt i might have, and i know that who ever compiled the books knew the same, so at least i get to chose my own lies rather than those being fed to the massess.
Thank God.
Peace
EDIT The book teaches us it can take us two ways. I think that is, if yo ulisten to the storys, and try to understand their spiritual meaning, and abide by it. Law will be established within you. If you on the other hand try to understand its law, but have no spirit. You are doomed to fail miserably, and will end tying yourself up in knots over details that just arent important. (like whether Abraham was a historical character or not)
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Salaam,
LT Well you if you go beyond the conventional then anything is possible!
Some people will say sex gives them ulitmate happiness so sex can be their religion too?
Hehe, did u forget about Osho Rajneesh?
NoahRelegion is a hodge podge of silly stuff colaborated from all over the place. Its eclectic in its nature, and ALWAYS man made. However...spirituality is the direct connection between a man and his creator. Thus i view Quran not as a book of relegion, but rather a spiritual guide.
By this definition, I fully agree.