Comments on "What is Religion?"
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Thus
Religion or AL-Deen = Way of Life / Attitude towards God..
The best way of life / attitude towards God = Submission to His Will, aslamta lil rabbial-alamienSalam Bro,
I did not dispute the meaning of religion, whether you call it system, way of life or submission, I do not really care much. What I was going about is that if I say I have a free mind, I should not come and ask silly questions. I can not ask dogs why they bark, or bees why they sting, similarly I should not ask humans why they argue.
As far as I am concerned, religion or God?s communication is something very personal. Any collective consciousness exists only outside our personal awareness. We create collective consciousness; however, we are unable to unite consciously to claim that we are one consciousness. God is aware of that and is also aware of our inability to unite in an absolute way. Therefore, a message from God could not be meant to be straightforward for all, but rather personal. I.e. every one of us should allow his/her instinct and intelligence to lead him/her towards what ultimately creates who we are. Let me tell you what I really think
The law of infinite existence
Life is infinite, whether we like/know it or not. God is all knowing, infinite and most intelligent. We are what our minds can be. We lack the knowledge, we are restricted by time, yet we are intelligent. The lack of knowledge (Regarding who we are and what we are capable of) created our sense of fear and our minds are here to protect us by creating a balance between the known and the unknown. As a result, our minds tend to create certain expectations that we sometime are hardly able to see behind them. We see what the mind is telling us to expect to see. In order for our mind to allow us to see more than what we are ready to comprehend, we would need realisations. Realisations take time, understanding and an open mind (Courage). So for our mind to see infinity, we have to open our minds and defeat time. For our minds to protect us, they tend to create rules and restrictions to support our expectations. Rules and restrictions are mostly created collectively, by groups and nations. The only force that works in our favour is our God given intelligence. Intelligence is a sense as well as glue. It is glue that holds the knowledge (energy) together to create form. It is a sense that we are capable of understanding. With intelligence we are able to break though expectations, rules and restrictions. Intelligence is telling us who we are and what we can be. It is the key towards infinity, towards God. Just ask yourself, why was I born intelligent without any knowledge? Ask yourself hundred times until you get the answer. Can religion tell you who you are? Whether it is a system or a phrase that means submission? Religion is an intelligent concept that was created at certain intelligent level to help you go forward, yet today it is nothing but a restriction to your level of intelligence. It is a tool that helps the mind to feel more comfortable by avoiding infinity and the urge to seek.The main questions are who we are and why we are here? Did religion answer those questions for you? Did you believe the answers? Are you now comfortable with the truth that religion is presenting you? The answer is no, no, no. Let me tell you why I think religion never answered those questions. Before our existence, this life did not exist. And this life is different from what existed before it. And the reasons behind our existence exited only in that which does not exist in our life todat. So, for the reasons to come to our current existence and be explained in a manner that we where we exist today can understand, it had to go through the same transformation that our existence had to go through in order for it to exist in a different way to the existence that existed before our existence. Then what we end up with is a version of reasons that are distorted in the same way that our existence is different from the existence that is behind our understanding today.
Does that sound too complicated? What about if you know everything and I know nothing? Would our judgement be the same? What if you wish to explain to me why we are different, would I understand? How could you explain to me your point of view if you are not first telling me what you know? How could I understand you if the realm where I live does not allow your absolute knowledge to exist? How could you deal with me when my mind is so dependant on a time frame that you do not experience and what you are trying to tell me could not exist in that frame of time that I am restricted to? Whatever you say would be interpreted by my restriction to mean something that you did not mean to say. And If I heartedly believe the information I have received from you it would create my new restriction to ever be able to understand what you truly wanted to say. So, you would better say nothing and let me first work around my frame of time to reach an understanding at my own pace.God bless
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As far as I am concerned, religion or God?s communication is something very personal. herefore, a message from God could not be meant to be straightforward for all, but rather personal. I.e. every one of us should allow his/her instinct and intelligence to lead him/her towards what ultimately creates who we are.
Agreed...
What about if you know everything and I know nothing? Would our judgement be the same?
005.069 Those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
IMHO No our judgement will not be the same... the one who was given more will be asked more... who was given less will be asked less..
Luke 1248 So to every to whom much was given, much will be demanded from him, and to whom they entrusted much, all the more they will ask of him.
What if you wish to explain to me why we are different, would I understand?
Its God's will and decree..
005.048 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way.If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
Whatever you say would be interpreted by my restriction to mean something that you did not mean to say. And If I heartedly believe the information I have received from you it would create my new restriction to ever be able to understand what you truly wanted to say. So, you would better say nothing and let me first work around my frame of time to reach an understanding at my own pace.
Al-Qiyama 075.016 - 19
Move not thy tongue to make haste therewith.
It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it
But when We have promulgated it, follow thou its recital
Nay more, it is for Us to explain itMatthew 77 "Be asking, and it will be given to you*; be seeking, and you* will find; be knocking, and it will be opened to you*.
Peace and God Bless
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Ritualisation of human spirituality = Occultism
This is the wiki definition
OccultThe word occult comes from Latin occultus (hidden), referring to the 'knowledge of the secret' or 'knowledge of the hidden' and often meaning 'knowledge of the supernatural', as opposed to 'knowledge of the visible' or 'knowledge of the measurable', usually referred to as science. The modern term's meaning is often imprecisely translated and used as a term for 'secret knowledge' or 'hidden knowledge', in the sense of meaning 'knowledge meant only for certain people' or 'knowledge that must be k
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OccultRituals - are like Salaat etc and there is nothing hidden about that ritual.
Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum guys,
This is a very interesting thread and many thanks Openurmind for starting this. I'd like to just ask the question
what makes a religion a religion and by this definition, is football hooliganism a religion (clue watch Football Factory).
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what makes a religion a religion and by this definition, is football hooliganism a religion (clue watch Football Factory).
Here is what wiki defines it
Religion, sometimes used interchangeably with faith, is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the practices and institutions associated with such belief.
Religion in the true sense of the word has an trascendent element while the hooliganism has not.
But you can also say Atheism is a Religion - It is a religion without a God.
So perhaps Religion=ritualisation of human spirituality perhaps a better definition?Regards,
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Shalom LT
Ok, Wiki definition duly noted. I challenge the limit of that definition though. I see a 'religion' to mean thus
Includes
-a belief system (football is life, millwall is evil)
-a uniform ( obviously the home and away t-shirts)
-an indentity (im a west ham fan, ur not, i'll kick your teeth in)
-mythologies (do u remember the time our goalie flew through the air yada yada)....what do you think of that, LT ?
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Shalom LT
Ok, Wiki definition duly noted. I challenge the limit of that definition though. I see a 'religion' to mean thus
Includes
-a belief system (football is life, millwall is evil)
-a uniform ( obviously the home and away t-shirts)
-an indentity (im a west ham fan, ur not, i'll kick your teeth in)
-mythologies (do u remember the time our goalie flew through the air yada yada)....what do you think of that, LT ?
Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
Regards,
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Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
It lacks a conventional metaphysics, yes. However, I think that its metaphysics which truly moves human beings. So people who have football as thier religion ultimately worship football which they subconsciously will take them to ultimate happiness.
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Yes, it has all the ritualisitics of religion but lacks the "transcendent" element.
It lacks a conventional metaphysics, yes. However, I think that its metaphysics which truly moves human beings. So people who have football as thier religion ultimately worship football which they subconsciously will take them to ultimate happiness.
Well you if you go beyond the conventional then anything is possible! -)
Some people will say sex gives them ulitmate happiness so sex can be their religion too? -)
Regards,
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Relegion is a hodge podge of silly stuff colaborated from all over the place. Its eclectic in its nature, and ALWAYS man made. However...spirituality is the direct connection between a man and his creator. Thus i view Quran not as a book of relegion, but rather a spiritual guide.
I try to remain intellectually honest about things ,and just as i can see that much of what is in the Bible is obviously based on lies, misconceptions, and basically things wich just arent true. I cannot intellectually defend Quran for the same reasons. THERE WAS NO ABRAHAM! PERIOD! end of sentence!
If you push the rabbis enough around they will tell you so, pesky characters. What we are dealing with is a lie that got its own life. However, I do belive in God strongly, i have had experiences removing every single shred of doubt i might have, and i know that who ever compiled the books knew the same, so at least i get to chose my own lies rather than those being fed to the massess.
Thank God.
Peace
EDIT The book teaches us it can take us two ways. I think that is, if yo ulisten to the storys, and try to understand their spiritual meaning, and abide by it. Law will be established within you. If you on the other hand try to understand its law, but have no spirit. You are doomed to fail miserably, and will end tying yourself up in knots over details that just arent important. (like whether Abraham was a historical character or not)
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Salaam,
LT Well you if you go beyond the conventional then anything is possible!
Some people will say sex gives them ulitmate happiness so sex can be their religion too?
Hehe, did u forget about Osho Rajneesh?
NoahRelegion is a hodge podge of silly stuff colaborated from all over the place. Its eclectic in its nature, and ALWAYS man made. However...spirituality is the direct connection between a man and his creator. Thus i view Quran not as a book of relegion, but rather a spiritual guide.
By this definition, I fully agree.