How Authentic is the Quran?
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SaLaM Tony
There is a good thread on this forum underlining how there are minor differences in the Quran with words and letters being added. Then, if you ask shias, they believe that a whole surah was taken out of the Quran as part of the sunni conspiracy. So, i dont beleive the quran is as it was revealed to Prophet Muhammad. But then again, the true and complete scripture is with God and no one can touch that
*Hums the tune Cant touch that lolllll
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Is it free from corruption? How can we be sure that it was exactly the same Quran revealed to Muhammad? Do we have any reliable history on how the Quran came about aside from the sunni tradtions?
I am avoiding blind faith.
I need your comments. Thanks all.
Peace.
Tony
Peace Tony,
First of all, there are details in the Quran about how the Quran came about.
However, there are (apparently) 7 different translations of the Quran in circulation today. I read this in a sunni book called 'ulum ul quran'. This is interesting because in the progressive muslims quran translation there is a verse that describes some people who 'ripped the Quran into shreds'. This verse is translated differently in other (sunni) translations. I have tried to look up the word 'ripped into shreds' up, but my very basic Arabic dictionary did not have the root.
Off hand I cannot remember the verse, but I am sure others will enlighten you!
And of course, let us not forget the speech marks. They are, of course, a corruption as they are not present in earlier versions.
So, to sum up, I find it very difficult to believe that the Quran has not been corrupted. However, I doubt that the extent to which it has been corrupted is that great .
Ulum ul Quran is a good book to have concerning this matter. Also, Layth's intro at the beginning of 'The Message' is also interesting.
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Salaamun alaikum,
Roshan;However, there are (apparently) 7 different translations of the Quran in circulation today.
Not translations, RECITATIONS (qiraat). This is of course false because al-quraan was revealed in 'lisaanun arabiyun mubiin' (clear arabic language).
I read this in a sunni book called 'ulum ul quran'. This is interesting because in the progressive muslims quran translation there is a verse that describes some people who 'ripped the Quran into shreds'. This verse is translated differently in other (sunni) translations. I have tried to look up the word 'ripped into shreds' up, but my very basic Arabic dictionary did not have the root. Off hand I cannot remember the verse, but I am sure others will enlighten you!
Its 15/91 but what is your point about this verse?
And of course, let us not forget the speech marks. They are, of course, a corruption as they are not present in earlier versions.
Where does the quran tell you to look for 'earlier versions' or even original manuscripts (masaahif) please?
So, to sum up, I find it very difficult to believe that the Quran has not been corrupted. However, I doubt that the extent to which it has been corrupted is that great .
Are you a sunni or an orientalist?
Ulum ul Quran is a good book to have concerning this matter. Also, Layth's intro at the beginning of 'The Message' is also interesting.
Ulumul quran by Ahmad Von Denfer is based on HADITH AND SEERAH. So can I ask you please, who verifies the information von Denfer gives you ? You don't mind turning that book onto the Quran but who judges that book?
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Peace be upon you,
I myself am not too concerned with the question. I take the word "quran" to only mean reading. It is AL KITAAB (the universal law) that is to be ultimately read, THIS READING (often given the title Koran) is only help along the way, appreciation be to the God.
Doesnt matter much to me about how it got to be where it is, the only importance to me is does what I have in my hands guide me towards realizing the ultimate state of PEACE, and does it help me understand Divine Law of the Universe. Does it help me change my behavior to manifest the God within me.
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Peace Tony,
How Authentic is the Quran? Is it free from corruption? How can we be sure that it was exactly the same Quran revealed to Muhammad?
There is a mathematical code embedded into the Koran http//www.submission.org/miracle/
The most significant patterns are the basmala-letters, each basmala-word, the number of basmalas, the number of suras, the numbers of verses, each being a multiple of 19, as well as the pattern of the initial Q, and sura 74 talking about the mathematicle code.
Before verifying, make sure that you have removed the 2 injected verses 9128-129 from the Koran-manuscripts, which do not belong to the Koran.
Peace,
Omar -
Are you paranoid about sunnis?
No, just asking the brother what his sources are. Are YOU paranoid about being questioned? If so, I suggest you go back to the blind-faith, ritual-centred game of sunnism. Trust me, its comfort zone is huge. A lifetime of languising awaits you.
Brother not everyone who doubts the the authenticity of the Quran is a sunni ok? lolll . Or is that you dont know the numerous additions to the Quran?
Additions to the Quran or Editions of the Quran?
Let me ask you something how do YOU know the reports claiming those additions or editions are true? They come from non-quranic sources.
If your criteria of 'correctness' comes from other than the Quran, then you cannot possibly be 'quranic', can you? If you trust some parchment some person found in the ruins of some mosque, then you must be an orientalist. If you trust some report by a guy who lived 250 years after the prophet, you're a sunni. Don't shy away from these labels, Jaxal. Quranic people judge by the Quran. Other criterias represent other gods.
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Looooooooooooooool So what now? you think this is an arab conspiracy???? Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Jaxal, get over your identity crisis. You're a sunni through and through. That's why you believe this nonsense about the additions to the Quran. You're just like this guy www.aperfectquran.co.uk so why don't you meet up with him and plan more derogations against the Quran? Enjoy it, there are a billion of you in the world. People who accept all sorts of derogatory nonsense about the quran just because some guy with a 'muslim name' they never met said so.
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SaLaM mquran
Ok maquran, seriously, you need to stop calling me a sunni for no reason. When then are two copies of the Quran in front of you. And one of them is changed. Only a blind fool will deny such facts. There is a thread on the forum on this. I sujjest you find it and read it.
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SaLaM mquran
What are you getting so worked up about?? chill! Chill and then read the post. Im sure you will find it if you search. U dont have to believe me.
Good enough reason for you?
Brother, its of no concern to me what YOU think of me. I only care about Allah and His opinion of me )
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Hehe, im not worked up at all. I just think you should know where your viewpoints are from. To get you to quote the quran, the source you claim to cling to is equivalent of getting the Pope to quote the Puranas to justify Catholicism. There's no problem personally from me, but if you post in the forum, people tend to answer you if you're posting claptrap like 'God teaches democracy'. Call it a law of nature if you will but that's what happens.
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What a confusion a complete mess where everybody is trying to sell their version of religion. Doubts about Qur'an authenticity, verifying Qur'an by errorenous Code 19, trying to find the hidden message of Qur'an.
There is no way that we are going to unite as muslims.
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Peace be upon you
Roshan;However, there are (apparently) 7 different translations of the Quran in circulation today.
<<Not translations, RECITATIONS (qiraat). This is of course false because al-quraan was revealed in 'lisaanun arabiyun mubiin' (clear arabic language).>>
Yes, you are correct. This is what I had meant to say.
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I read this in a sunni book called 'ulum ul quran'. This is interesting because in the progressive muslims quran translation there is a verse that describes some people who 'ripped the Quran into shreds'. This verse is translated differently in other (sunni) translations. I have tried to look up the word 'ripped into shreds' up, but my very basic Arabic dictionary did not have the root. Off hand I cannot remember the verse, but I am sure others will enlighten you!Its 15/91 but what is your point about this verse?>>
My point was that perhaps God via the Quran predicts that the Quran would be altered.
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And of course, let us not forget the speech marks. They are, of course, a corruption as they are not present in earlier versions.Where does the quran tell you to look for 'earlier versions' or even original manuscripts (masaahif) please?>>
The Quran is the Quran. There are no versions. But clearly if you look at a 'Quran' today there are speech marks in it. In older versions of the 'Quran' there were none. This is an addition.
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So, to sum up, I find it very difficult to believe that the Quran has not been corrupted. However, I doubt that the extent to which it has been corrupted is that great .Are you a sunni or an orientalist?>>
I am trying to be a Muslim. Because of this I am not afraid to openly minded discuss issues. It is dissapointing that your mindset is still as those from whom we have tried to escape. In fact, it is the first time that I have seen such comments from a Muslim on this forum.
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Ulum ul Quran is a good book to have concerning this matter. Also, Layth's intro at the beginning of 'The Message' is also interesting.Ulumul quran by Ahmad Von Denfer is based on HADITH AND SEERAH. So can I ask you please, who verifies the information von Denfer gives you ? You don't mind turning that book onto the Quran but who judges that book?
I accept your point, but you do not understand mine. There are books with slightly different variations which are all called the 'Quran'. This is either true or not. From what I have read it is. The Sunnis choose to explain this through their religious boooks which state that God gave Muhammad 7 versions of the Quran. But either way, either we have only one 'Quran' in (mainstream) circulation or more than one.
Roshan
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Salaamun alaikum Roshan,
My point was that perhaps God via the Quran predicts that the Quran would be altered.
Altered? 'Adheen' means doesn't mean 'altered' . See 4/46 for 'altering' words from their right places. The word 'tahreef' is used.
Secondly, Allah has promised to protect az-zikr (15/9) and al-quraan is said to be the posessor of az-zikr (dhi az-zikr - 38/2) then no, Allah would be contradicting himself if he said the Quran would be altered.
The Quran is the Quran. There are no versions. But clearly if you look at a 'Quran' today there are speech marks in it. In older versions of the 'Quran' there were none. This is an addition.
Yes, where are you getting this 'older versions' from please? Who told you that these 'older versions' are al-quraan as Allah mentioned it?
I am trying to be a Muslim. Because of this I am not afraid to openly minded discuss issues. It is dissapointing that your mindset is still as those from whom we have tried to escape. In fact, it is the first time that I have seen such comments from a Muslim on this forum.
That's just the point. You're not 'openly' discussing anything. What you're doing is accepting definitions and presuppositions given by other than al-quraan itself, namely by Sunnis and Orientalists. The 7 qiraat nonsense came from Bukhari who surprise, surprise is the best purveyor of hadith! After that, you take a verse like 15/91 claim that Allah predicted its alteration! Is this open discussion?
I accept your point, but you do not understand mine. There are books with slightly different variations which are all called the 'Quran'. This is either true or not. From what I have read it is. The Sunnis choose to explain this through their religious boooks which state that God gave Muhammad 7 versions of the Quran. But either way, either we have only one 'Quran' in (mainstream) circulation or more than one.
Allah promised to protect az-zikr, the one in eminence. Rashad Khalifa tried to excise 2 verses and still called it the Quran. Did it ever reach eminence? Its the same with the Warsh. Its only known in the corner of North Africa. We need to employ the Quran to remove these attempts and believe me, when the ayats are employed, there's no issue. That's my problem with your position. You're not using the ayat but rather Sunni or Orientalist assumptions.