Even without the Qur'an, Dating Sucks!
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SaLaM Salikah
Men find the idea of having sex repulsive? With You? I simply refuse to believe that. Impossible! Or is it the opposite? In which case, you are right. Men and women shouldnt be having sex before marriage. God says he created us in pair. Inshallah, one way or theother, you will find your pair Salikah.
I dont date. Infact, I find it so replusive that i have decided to stay single and adopt a baby girl. Ofcourse i have my reasons for it. But i dont need a woman in my life for me to enjoy all the pleasures of life. Ofcourse the same goes for you Salikah. Dont worry sal, inshallah you will find ur dream guy
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Peace SalikahDC
I meet a lot of wonderful woman, and spend time with them where ever it pleases us. But i dont "date" in the sense that you do it in America. I hate meeting people like that, as i find it superficial. Often i just spontaniously chat someone up in the supermarked and end up having a walk and coffee with them. When im out partying i meet a lot of great people, allthough their use of substances makes them a little fuzzy minded, still i chat people up and end up having coffe or something else, often in their place.
When i make it known that if we have sex we will be maried, and im not ready for that commitment just for "getting off", i get a lot of respect. And i have made great girl freinds (not lovers) out of people who thought i was their ride for the night.
Why are you so certain that having dinner at your place or his = sex?
If you have that little trust in the men that you date, youre dating the wrong men.And why are you not being perfectly honest about your deen to begin with? Then the problem wouldnt arise at all.
I always make it known what i am, what my viewpoints are and that those are the rules of engagement. People respect honesty like that, and it removes 90% of the complications. Furthermore, people react very positively to my deen, and often the conversations end up as FAQ's because they think my view on Islam is an interresting one that they never heard before. I have made ravers read the Quran , or sit still and listen to it with interrest.
We have nothing to hide, and if you fear that the men that you date will react negatively to you saying. "Im a muslim". You are dating the wrong men. Any sane man, would instantly ask "ohh...but arent you supposed to wear that head thing then?" (and they now know by reflex that casual sex is out of the question). And that is the opening line for you to explain what you view Islam as being.
Sometimes the true source of our problems are located 3 cm from each ear. Are there something that you could change, that change the current situation?
Peace
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Peace SalikahDC
Often i just spontaniously chat someone up in the supermarked and end up having a walk and coffee with them. When im out partying i meet a lot of great people, allthough their use of substances makes them a little fuzzy minded, still i chat people up and end up having coffe or something else, often in their place.Yes, that is pretty much my experience. I love the walks and the chats and what not. However, THIS is what I call dating as well. Dating, to me, is basically any method of getting to know someone that you are attracted to you for whatever reason.
When i make it known that if we have sex we will be maried, and im not ready for that commitment just for "getting off", i get a lot of respect. And i have made great girl freinds (not lovers) out of people who thought i was their ride for the night.
Verbally I get respect, but men rarely usually stick around to be buddies. But I understand their position as sexual attraction can often get in the way of male/female "friendships". Also, I think women are much more open to different expressions and situations regarding male/female relationships and sexuality insofar that they might be open to trying to have a "platonic" friendship in the first place. However, it is almost as if men EXPECT full access to a woman's body without investing adequate time, resources, and general interests in the woman's mental, physical, emotional, and sexual health. Unfortunately, this is the normal trend that I see amongst my peers. In my case, when the access is denied, men are off and running to someone who will give them what they want. And this is not to say that these types of relationships are doomed from the beginning, as I have seen many successful partnerships bloom from situations that were not initially "islamic".
Why are you so certain that having dinner at your place or his = sex?
If you have that little trust in the men that you date, youre dating the wrong men
.I never said its a certainty. You have to take everything in context of the situation. For the majority of my experiences, I am sure that they wanted to have dinner...as well as some privacy time as well. The times that I have obliged, my point was proven. Besides, who says that its always the men that are the problem!?! I have a sex drive myself, you know. I don't always trust myself.
And why are you not being perfectly honest about your deen to begin with? Then the problem wouldnt arise at all
.I think you misunderstood what I said. I do not lie about my way of life. However, my way of life is just that-my way of life. I don't know about you, but it is quite difficult to explain all my pespectives that encompass my "deen" up front. I am not self righteous nor on the path to converting people to my understanding. I, basically, just go with the flow and present my "deen" within my perspectives and ideologies. By getting to know me, you will know my deen.
Furthermore, people react very positively to my deen, and often the conversations end up as FAQ's because they think my view on Islam is an interresting one that they never heard before. I have made ravers read the Quran , or sit still and listen to it with interrest
.Most people I know are unfamiliar with Arab culture, Sunnah, and Islam. Therefore, me just having the Qur'an in my bag is enough to spark conversation about my "religion". Believe it or not, most men usually try to get me to accept their point of view. Most even assume that an ex boyfriend "converted" me to islam in the first place (which is absolutely not true). After taking the time to explain the concept of Qur'an Alone to one guy, he said, "Oh, I get it. You're only accepting what you want to accept in Islam without accepting the entire thing". That's kind of the point, but not really.
Any sane man, would instantly ask "ohh...but arent you supposed to wear that head thing then?" (and they now know by reflex that casual sex is out of the question). And that is the opening line for you to explain what you view Islam as being
.Yeah, thats usually what happens and, in the end, they end up making statement such as the aforementioned. I recall one incident where I explained fully how Islam was extremely liberating to womanhood and he replied, "Well, all I have to say is that I do not like how Islam treats women as second class citizens and I don't understand why you converted." Even after I tried to tell him that men, not Islam, was the enemy of women's rights, he still could not understand why I converted to such a "sexist" religion.
Sometimes the true source of our problems are located 3 cm from each ear. Are there something that you could change, that change the current situation?
Well, that's why I am coming here for suggestions. Even my male relatives believe my ideologies regarding dating, commitment, and sexuality are "idealistic" or "stuck up" or "outdated" or "high maitanence"...which are, in there eyes, a turn off. Since they are guys, I am assuming that this may be a sentiment shared amongst many men ages 23-35 in America. So everyone's advice to me has been to lighten up on my deen.
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You're very funny, Jaxal.
I dont date. Infact, I find it so replusive that i have decided to stay single and adopt a baby girl. Ofcourse i have my reasons for it. But i dont need a woman in my life for me to enjoy all the pleasures of life. Ofcourse the same goes for you Salikah. Dont worry sal, inshallah you will find ur dream guy
A woman may not be able to help you enjoy all the pleasures of life, but she may most definitely help you enjoy the pleaseures of a woman lol
I don't really have a prototype or "dream guy", but only the God knows whats in store for me in everything I do. So no, I am not confident that I will find a partner. But I am not pessimistic either. It is what it is, and it will be what it will be. In everything, all one can do is strive to change those things they want to change, and accept those things that they cannot. I like men and passion as I like dancing and reading. If one is absent in my life, I am going to notice it. but it doesn't mean that I can't enjoy everything else that brings me joy.
Thats how I operate lol
But nonetheless, dating still sucks. roll
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Well Sis
It does come off as you being attracted, either to the wrong guys or for the wrong rasons. I dont know you, so youre better at deciding wich.
Whaaaaaat? ...woman likes sex? no way! You dont trust yourself you say hehe? well as i always say, thank God for my hands, they keep me out of trouble (most of the time).
As for my deen i find it simple to explain. as you say, its my way of life, period. this means that i put certain restrictions on myself, and if people cannot live with them or mock them. to bad for them, i honestly dont care.
I have the same problem as you do basically. To find a partner willing to share my spiritual views and lifestyle, and one that can live with the fact that im a full blown crackpot. I even got desperate to the point where i started writing with woman in other countrys, as far away as the other side of earth from me. But now i have just given in.
If i wanted some girl, i have no problem getting so, but all the stuff that is truly important to me, i cant have where i am at. And i chose to accept so.But i get many great freinds along the way, and that is not such a bad trade at all. But i wish you all the best Salikah, and hope that you succeed in finding a man worthy of you.
Peace
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Salaam,
I thought this was funny...
I even got desperate to the point where i started writing with woman in other countrys, as far away as the other side of earth from me.
lol That sure does sound like desperation to me.
Joe
Hey, we're living in desperate times, man. You gotta do what ya gotta do !
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yeah you just go ahead and laugh the both of you. With family like this, i feel like i can safely sack my enemies and still get my shar of flack! D
Greace
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i guess im overly sensitive about this oops
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Speaking of marriage
A friend of mine sent this op/ed from the Washington Post to me this morning. The article hits on some interesting points, but is also problematic for a number of reasons...one being that it fails to point out that single motherhood is not always a choice, but a condition that women must bear.
By William Raspberry
Poor women delay marriage because they value it, but opt for single motherhood in the meantime. Don't they understand that the script they've written for themselves may not play out so well for their children?
To view the entire article, go to http//www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/26/AR2005092600294.html?referrer=emailarticle
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But I understand their position as sexual attraction can often get in the way of male/female "friendships".
But is that what you are after female/male friendships?
Well, you don't date to have friendship do you?
Is not the aim of dating is to have a romantic liasion?
If that is the case why pursue dates if you are only interested in friendship?
You might be better off joining a book or chess clubs for that or any other interest group. And your case a DEEN group -) and if there isn't a DEEN group - why not set one up yourself?
However, it is almost as if men EXPECT full access to a woman's body without investing adequate time, resources, and general interests in the woman's mental, physical, emotional, and sexual health.
Invest in womens physical, mental and sexual health - What are you after a DOCTOR? -)
Men expecting full access to a womens body - look for sexual compatible partners Salikah.
If you are frigid then find a man that is frigid. If you want a man to be a monk - then hey go to a monastery or something!
In my case, when the access is denied, men are off and running to someone who will give them what they want.
If you are not sexually compatible - what do you expect?
They are not going to stick around and clean your oven in hope that they might get a bit!And this is not to say that these types of relationships are doomed from the beginning, as I have seen many successful partnerships bloom from situations that were not initially "islamic".
Love me and Love my deen? I think it does not work like this way when individuals are liberated individuals. And you live in a country of liberated individuals don't you?
Take individuals as they are and not in view to be changed or made to serve you in the context of your DEEN.
Regards,
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What on God's blessed Green Earth are you talking about Lotetree? Alright. I'll amuse you
But is that what you are after female/male friendships?
Did I say that? No. I love my friends, and love to make more, but not in this case.
Is not the aim of dating is to have a romantic liasion?
Thats my point.
If that is the case why pursue dates if you are only interested in friendship?
Again, I didn't say that.
Invest in womens physical, mental and sexual health - What are you after a DOCTOR? -)
Nope. I'm looking for someone who is going to put a similar amount of effort and commitment into the relationship as I will.
Men expecting full access to a womens body - look for sexual compatible partners Salikah.
If you are frigid then find a man that is frigid. If you want a man to be a monk - then hey go to a monastery or something!
You got it wrong again, my friend. I prefer the spiritual super freak, myself. twisted Is that too much to ask? But i'm getting too personal now. Lets keep that hush ops
In my case, when the access is denied, men are off and running to someone who will give them what they want.
If you are not sexually compatible - what do you expect?
They are not going to stick around and clean your oven in hope that they might get a bit!Dammit. And I thought that having them do my chores would get them to stay. You read my mind, LoteTree. roll
Love me and Love my deen? I think it does not work like this way when individuals are liberated individuals. And you live in a country of liberated individuals don't you?
So you seem to think....
Take individuals as they are and not in view to be changed or made to serve you in the context of your DEEN.
Yes! You are such a great reader. That's exactly what I meant when I said
I am not self righteous nor on the path to converting people to my understanding. I, basically, just go with the flow
.Peace.
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What on God's blessed Green Earth are you talking about Lotetree? Alright. I'll amuse you
Blessed are the amusers they will surely make people happy -)
But is that what you are after female/male friendships?
Did I say that? No. I love my friends, and love to make more, but not in this case.
This is what you wrote
Verbally I get respect, but men rarely usually stick around to be buddies. But I understand their position as sexual attraction can often get in the way of male/female "friendships".
and this is what I wrote
But is that what you are after female/male friendships?
Regards,
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Here are my words without context, best provided by you.
This is what you wrote
Verbally I get respect, but men rarely usually stick around to be buddies. But I understand their position as sexual attraction can often get in the way of male/female "friendships".
Add a little context for understanding....
When i make it known that if we have sex we will be maried, and im not ready for that commitment just for "getting off", i get a lot of respect. And i have made great girl freinds (not lovers) out of people who thought i was their ride for the night
.Verbally I get respect, but men rarely usually stick around to be buddies. But I understand their position as sexual attraction can often get in the way of male/female "friendships". Also, I think women are much more open to different expressions and situations regarding male/female relationships and sexuality insofar that they might be open to trying to have a "platonic" friendship in the first place.
And Viola! Its Salikah's perspective NOT out of context. Clearly, I was responding to Noah's post. Sorry you didn't pick up on that.
peace.
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And Viola! Its Salikah's perspective NOT out of context. Clearly, I was responding to Noah's post. Sorry you didn't pick up on that.
peace.You got me there Salikah, the context!
Does that mean its washing dishes for me? -)Regards,
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As Salaam Alaikum,
I honestly cannot wait until I begin dating seriously! It is going to be so fun. I want to be in love, and have a man who wants me deeply despite being annoyed with everything that I do... for some reason I just find that sooo hott.
when i start dating, I want to date with the intentions of finding a spouse... not just to date. I want to get to know this guy, meet his family, blah blah.
Of course we wont be having sex.
And is it just me or.... am I the only girl who actually doesn't really want to marry a virgin? lol. lol.
For some reason I want to marry a divorced man (with no kids!!!). I guess it's becuase I imagine myself with a guy whose about 5 years older than me... i imagine getting married around 22. loll ol.
It'll be so fun! lol
salaam
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Peace sis Salikah, & all,
It's a bit of a cultural problem innit? Having a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship in the Western world almost always imply having sexual relationship too. I get the idea that you want something more than just friendship, but less than sexual partners. I'll just say that if you're in a different culture, say Indonesian , the concept of a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship is still mostly like that more than friends, but it does not involve sex.
I can't speak of other cultures regarding the different views on dating though.
I agree with you and bro Noah, it can be hard. But who knows...
LoteTree raised an interesting suggestion the Deen club. I thought we already have that? This forum, that is.