DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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Priest
Can you provide me with any historical evidence of Muslims eating Pork, or even discussing that it is Halal or Haram?? I will be thankful.
I have no idead. My concern is not the history written by man, but what Allah has revealed in Al-Quran.
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I have no idead. My concern is not the history written by man, but what Allah has revealed in Al-Quran.
MUHAMMAD(PIUH) was there to explain the Quran, and we find no historical evidence which shows eating of posk during his time by Muslims.
Therfore it can safely be concluded that Quran never said Pork is Halal.
And the vice versa is just your wishful thinking.Allah Ho Akbar.
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Salaam all,
An interesting thing is to find out where the pigs are coming from, I mean where are they in their wild nature located!?
Today we have farmers who breed pigs for their meats and skins.
Was there wild pigs in SAUDI ARABIA during the time of Prophet Muhammad?
Peace
Sis Majidah -
I have no idead. My concern is not the history written by man, but what Allah has revealed in Al-Quran.
MUHAMMAD(PIUH) was there to explain the Quran, and we find no historical evidence which shows eating of posk during his time by Muslims.
Therfore it can safely be concluded that Quran never said Pork is Halal.
And the vice versa is just your wishful thinking.Allah Ho Akbar.
You have no idea what the Last Prophet ate or didn't eat. Where you there in his presence to know for a fact what he ate or didn't eat or are you simply taking the so-called "historical reports" of others as to what he ate or didn't eat? Your conclusion is simply ignorant.
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You have no idea what the Last Prophet ate or didn't eat. Where you there in his presence to know for a fact what he ate or didn't eat or are you simply taking the so-called "historical reports" of others as to what he ate or didn't eat? Your conclusion is simply ignorant.
Funny indeed!
I asked; can you provide me any Historical evidence that Muslims eat the Pig? or even they discussed about it being Halal or Haram?
and you answeredI Have No idea.
And now you call me Ignorant. roll
Wow, just looking at your logic
Where you there in his presence to know for a fact what he ate or didn't eat or are you simply taking the so-called "historical reports" of others as to what he ate or didn't eat?
One can assume a lot.
I have never been to the MOON, I never met Armstrong, but I read What Armstrong tells us.
I never met any of Mughal emperors, but I know what they ate, through history.hmmmmmm a Priest??
How can we be sure there was Jesus?? no existing priest ever met him.
Well I think churches should reconsider their induction policy for Priests. -
Salaam all,
I think I must defend Pb here!
My understanding is that Pb wants to follow Al-Quran as the only true source, then he can't look in the history books.
If you want to be a true believer in God and his scripture then you'll have to study Quran and verify what's in there.
Much things in Quran isn't literal but instead it telling us a story behind it so i can figure it out if I lay down some energy on it.
My understanding is that you cannot take each word in Quran for what it is you'll have to look behind the word or read between the lines sometimes.
That is what God wants us to do, to study to dig for knowledge and not only get all served on a plate.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Salaam Br Jaxal,
Well not I, but other people don't have to be so smart as I am
God is advice us about what can harm us and therefore we should take his advice seriously.
I don't eat red meats only fish and I'm nearly a vegetarian so i think I take God's advice for real.
To eat healthy is a good way.
Peace
Sis Majidah -
Raj-ah,
PBM You have no idea what the Last Prophet ate or didn't eat. Where you there in his presence to know for a fact what he ate or didn't eat or are you simply taking the so-called "historical reports" of others as to what he ate or didn't eat? Your conclusion is simply ignorant.
Funny indeed! I asked; can you provide me any Historical evidence that Muslims eat the Pig? or even they discussed about it being Halal or Haram? and you answered I Have No idea. And now you call me Ignorant. roll Wow, just looking at your logic.
History, as many so rightly define it as, is nothing more than agreed upon fiction/opinion/conjecture. If you found out that the Last Prophet did eat pork...would you believe it? If that information did come out others would counter by claiming that that "historical report" is false. So, who would be right? Al-Quran has no doubt in it about what it discusses/provides guidance on. You should endeavor to emulate my logic.
Where you there in his presence to know for a fact what he ate or didn't eat or are you simply taking the so-called "historical reports" of others as to what he ate or didn't eat?
One can assume a lot.
Allah, per ayats 733 and 1736, makes assumption making/opinion making, about Him and and His Deen...haram. Go and read the ayats for yourself.
I have never been to the MOON, I never met Armstrong, but I read What Armstrong tells us. I never met any of Mughal emperors, but I know what they ate, through history.
You don't know, that is, for a fact, any of the above. You simply have come to believe fervently what others have told you about the above, but you don't know for a fact, because you didn't personally witness any of it. Study the following
- Say the things that my Lord hath indeed made haram/unlawful are indecencies, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority; and saying things about Allah of which you have no knowledge.
1736 And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.
Ayat/proof 378, tell us there will be those among mankind, who will say Allah, His Deen, His Quran, and His Messenger, that which Allah did not say of those subjects. Ayat/proof 733, tells mankind it is haram/forbidden to say anything of Allah with out knowledge And, ayat/proof 1736, warns mankind not to pursue anything of which he has no knowledge.
2844 You were not on the Western side when We decreed the Commission to Moses, nor were you a witness.
2844 Wama kunta bijanibi algharbiyyi ith qadayna ila moosa alamra wama kunta mina ashshahideen.
Main Entry SHAHIDA to be present with that which is witnessed. page 299
Main Entry WITNESS see for oneself one who has personal knowledge of something something serving as evidence or proof.
Main Entry PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE done in person without the intervention of another.
Main EntryRAMA to throw, cast, hit, blame, cast on, charge to speak conjecturally.page 223
Main Entry IMPRESSION a vague idea in which some confidence is placed.
Main Entry OPINION belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge.
Main Entry CONJECTURE supposition inference from defective or presumptive evidence b a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork.
From the above ayat/proof and definitions then, when one speaks of a person or an event and was not a witness to either, then, that individual isn't speaking from personal knowledge, hence, cannot be called a shahideen/witness. When an individual relates a story of a person or an event and was not a witness, then that story is...hearsay.
Main Entry HEARSAY EVIDENCE evidence based on what someone has told the witness and not of direct knowledge The evidence of those who relate, not what they know themselves, but what they have heard from others.
When one loses focus of the above ayat and definitions, the following is the result
5328 And they have no knowledge of it; they do not follow anything but conjecture, and surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at all.
6116 And if you obey/follow the majority of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow nothing but conjecture and they only lie.
hmmmmmm a Priest?? How can we be sure there was Jesus?? no existing priest ever met him. Well I think churches should reconsider their induction policy for Priests.
My forum name, Priest Bokmei, has nothing at all to do with Christianity, but with the alleged founder of White Eyebrow/Bok Mei Kung-fu. Your ignorance continues to manifest itself.
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PEACE SWEDEN,
I think I must defend Pb here! My understanding is that Pb wants to follow Al-Quran as the only true source, then he can't look in the history books. If you want to be a true believer in God and his scripture then you'll have to study Quran and verify what's in there.
Thank you for your support on this point. Yes, you are correct. Al-Quran, for its purpose, that is, to Guide
Main EntryGUIDANCE/Al-Quran the instructions on how to live a righteous life in this world (especially, not to do shirk) , so that, one may successfuly pass the test of conduct , so that, one may avoid the destiny of Hell and gain the destiny of Paradise .
is the only source of guidance for mankind.
Looking forward to your reply.
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PEACE, TO ALL,
Many destitute people around the world, to survive,...eat smelly bad looking things for food. (
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"Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah."
Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
I have choosed these two verses from the chapters that you quoted, to show you if that is so? what you are trying to propogate than it means there is a claer contradiction in QURAN, but NO that is not the case Dear Priest. For a Muslim above verses are more than enough to believe what Quran is saying clearly but for you and Swedish lady we have to analyze it further.
The priest base his arguments on following verses
For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.
55] Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, *. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.and tries to tell us that Swine is not Haram as is clearly mentioned in other verses.
He statesThis is my understanding. At the time Al-Quran was being revealed, the species of animal, the pig, was not haram to the People of the Book i.e the Jews
Albion noting the blunder in his statements quickly comes in for his support and with complete dishonesty or ignorance discusses some chapters like mathew of bible and leaves the main issue discussed in Leviticus.
Here are some verses open to discussion for all
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you".
"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you."
And then Deutronomy
"And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass."
So wht you say Now? my dear priest.
The translation is from KINGS JAMES of Leviticus and can be checked
It is not from me. winkSwedish Lady
Salaam all,
I think I must defend Pb here!
Yes; please go on.
SaLaM Raj-ah
Excellent point
THanks JAXAL.
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Raj-ah,
"Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah."
Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
I have choosed these two verses from the chapters that you quoted, to show you if that is so? what you are trying to propogate than it means there is a claer contradiction in QURAN, but NO that is not the case Dear Priest. For a Muslim above verses are more than enough to believe what Quran is saying clearly but for you and Swedish lady we have to analyze it further.
LOL! My Dear Raj-ah, you and the vast majority of the so-called Muslims, continue to, and erroneously so, mistranslate khinzerin as pig and this is why you imagine that I'm in contradiction with Al-Quran.
The priest base his arguments on following verses
For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with claws/thufur; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.
"Undivided hoof", is gross mistranslation. Thafara, means claws/talons. See
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The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, by Omar, pg. 350.
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The Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic, by Wehr, pg. 581.
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The English-Arabic Translator Dictionary, by Steinglass, pg. 146.
None of these dictionaries translates thafara, as hoof. Look it up for yourself.
Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, ...
and tries to tell us that Swine is not Haram as is clearly mentioned in other verses. He states
PBM This is my understanding. At the time Al-Quran was being revealed, the species of animal, the pig, was not haram to the People of the Book i.e the Jews.
Albion noting the blunder in his statements quickly comes in for his support and with complete dishonesty or ignorance discusses some chapters like mathew of bible and leaves the main issue discussed in Leviticus.
Here are some verses open to discussion for all
"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you".
"Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch, they are unclean to you."
(Leviticus 117-And then Deutronomy "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you. Ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass." (Deuteronomy 14
So wht you say Now? my dear priest.
The translation is from KINGS JAMES of Leviticus and can be checked
It is not from me. winkLOL! What say I, you ask? Let me ask you the following
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Is Al-Quran the The Book of Guidance for mankind or is the Torah the Book of Guidance for mankind or...are both Books the Guidance for mankind? If you need a clue, please look at ayat 2185 wink
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Is Al-Quran without error or doubt? Is the Torah without error or doubt? Are both Books without error or doubt? Or, do both Books contain error and doubt? Tell us what you...know.
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Al-Quran says that...the animals with claws were made haram to the Jews as food, because the Jews transgressed. Now, pigs don't have claws, so, Al-Quran is contradicting the Torah...which do you believe is the true account? They both cannot be the true account.
Swedish Lady Salaam all, I think I must defend Pb here!
Raj-ah Yes; please go on.
Sweden, all praises due to Allah, is beginning to work through the scam.
SaLaM Raj-ah
Excellent point
THanks JAXAL.
Jaxal, has made no points excellent or otherwise.
You are very ignorant of Al-Quran, Raj.
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I am sorry I was out of the town on an official tour for few days.
LOL! What say I, you ask? Let me ask you the following
Well before you ask any question you should answer first, my Dear Priest.
You are very ignorant of Al-Quran, Raj.
Well i am a student only!
But I would have rather taken this statement seriously if someone who has displayed better knowldge of Quran would have said it. -
I am sorry I was out of the town on an official tour for few days.
LOL! What say I, you ask? Let me ask you the following
Well before you ask any question you should answer first, my Dear Priest.
You are very ignorant of Al-Quran, Raj.
Well i am a student only!
But I would have rather taken this statement seriously if someone who has displayed better knowldge of Quran would have said it.My Dear Raj, as I said...you are very ignorant of Al-Quran, hence, you a poor student of it as well.
Now, unless you can refute my analysis of ayats 55 and 6146, relative to swine being halal, as well as, address the following three questions/points, then please refrain from further pestering me, thanks.
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Is Al-Quran the The Book of Guidance for mankind or is the Torah the Book of Guidance for mankind or...are both Books the Guidance for mankind? If you need a clue, please look at ayat 2185
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Is Al-Quran without error or doubt? Is the Torah without error or doubt? Are both Books without error or doubt? Or, do both Books contain error and doubt? Tell us what you...know.
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Al-Quran says that...the animals with claws were made haram to the Jews as food, because the Jews transgressed. Now, pigs don't have claws, so, Al-Quran is contradicting the Torah...which do you believe is the true account? They both cannot be the true account.
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