How Authentic is the Quran?
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Salaamun alaikum Roshan,
Perhaps it is our sloppy terminology which mquran has an issue with. Of course the Quran of God has not changed, but the book commonly called the 'Quran' by Sunnis, Shias and Muslims has.
Roshan, I dont have issues with terminology but with methodology. In Yemen some years ago, archeologists found a manuscript in the back of a mosque a manuscript predating most manuscripts. It gave another version of the Quran. Suddenly, the world was abuzz that the Quran now is fake. Why ? Because of one manuscript.
Lets do a Marty McFly here and go back there. Perhaps there was an Albion like person there who wrote a manuscript and sneakily placed it in the back of the mosque? How do we know all these things UNLESS we did a Marty McFly?
Its the same with all these manuscripts. People use them to justify all sorts of nonsense. Months ago, Ayman wanted to believe that instead of 'the romans were defeated' (30/1) , 'the romans defeated' so what did he do, he went back to the manuscripts. Did he think Allah was so blur that He would leave ambiguity between 'defeated' and 'was defeated'. This is the kind of misdeeds the Quran explicitly refutes when it says it was az-zikr, the one in EMINENCE. No one, not Warsh, not Rashad Khalifa, not any shia author or any Ansarite can never elevate thier versions of the Quran to the level of the Quran we have.
So Roshan, i apologise if this is untrue, but please don't believe in these 'academic methods' or 'literary criticism' nonsense. These theories are suspect in themselves.
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SaLaM mquran
So ur best defence is that its all a conspiracy? . Yes, everything is conspiracy mquran. Everything that ur mind is too small to understand is a conspiracy. Everything that you dont agree with is a conspiracy. roll
Roshan you actually bring up an excellent point.
Of course the Quran of God has not changed, but the book commonly called the 'Quran' by Sunnis, Shias and Muslims has.
If mquran had a clear mind while reading what i said, he would have understood that i dont mean it like complete verses have been re arranged. Rather, letters have been added. I was discussing this with a sunni friend of mine, and he said "why does it matter if a letter is added to the Quran to make it able to pronounce easily?" .I guess i have a problem with that.
In anycase, Im looking for verses from the Quran which say that Quran is a completel book. Can anyone find me such a verse?
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Peace,
I agree with Albion's initial point about the corruption, the book does refer to the reminder and I personally have not seen the reminder being defined as this particular book, as far as I am concerned the Most High can be referring to the continuous signs that unfold in our world and the Universe aswell as the reminders in history (such as the truths of religious books surviving through time).
I personally disagree with the concept of making a book, any book the ONLY source of guidance, it limits an individuals way of thinking and is not neccessarily the best way to live. Combining knowledge from other signs external from books would give a better grounding on things, plus the quran refers to signs external to the book and encourages the reader to seek by himself and to observe his/her surroundings and current situations.
For example there are stories in the book, and wars mentioned where the minority defeats the majority, throughout time this has happened, an individuals that just accepts without witnessing such an example would not be as certain as someone who spots this phenomenom. Plus the people that can relate situations to the book find better guidance and use for the book.
If you just absorb yourself into a text then your gonna become delusional, you need to keep in touch with reality and use the book to guide you through reality not live in a fantasy world that you have not verified and checked with reality. Blindly believing might be fine for some but certainty is always better for me.
Nural
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So ur best defence is that its all a conspiracy? . Yes, everything is conspiracy mquran. Everything that ur mind is too small to understand is a conspiracy. Everything that you dont agree with is a conspiracy.
A very interesting prerequisite in the participation of forums is the ability to read. Jaxal, did you see the word 'conspiracy' in my post? All im saying is, a manuscript found somewhere doesn't prove anything. You think it proves something? Then why don't you tell us, what does a manuscript prove?
Yet you say Moses/Musa wasnt given the Torah?
Again, the inability to read. Is the Quran really so closed to you? Joe quoted 2/53 RIGHT ABOVE your post and you have to ask him? Sigh....
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Its not a matter of a conspiracies at all. Its a matter of where we are and what we're left with. I noticed this some time back when comparing the philosophies of religion and al-quraan. Al-quraan doesn't require you to play Indiana Jones and look for where Ibrahim, Musa and all the other guys are buried. Who CARES? Is God going to ask you 'o mq, at what age did Aisha marry Mohamed?' . No, he gave us the operational manual. Don't find out how your ancestors used windows. YOU read the manual and YOU use it for urself. When the test comes, it'll be on how YOU used windows to exploit the potential of your pc, not how your grandfather used it.
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SaLam Joe and mquran
Joe If moses/musa wasnt given the Torah, then who was?
mquran
Then why don't you tell us, what does a manuscript prove?
How many of you are there? Anyways, you say i cant read, yet you have seemed to miss the whole point of this thread. You say its not enough. Something is in front of your eyes. And you say you dont want to beleive it. You are a true example when God says
GOD seals their minds and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.
Truth is truth. Weather written on a paper, or sent down through Angel Gabriel. Dont be threatened by it. God asks us to accept the truth, even if it is found in the previous scriptures. If the evidence is so weak, then it should be easy to refute. So far, u have just babbled and not given any actual proof that the evidence is wrong becoz of so and so. Simply denying it is no actualy proof. Pur your words where your mouth is and bring actualy evidence to prove it wrong.
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Truth is truth. Weather written on a paper, or sent down through Angel Gabriel. Dont be threatened by it.
So anyone can write anything on a goatskin and it would be truth for you? Marvellous ! very marvellous indeed
God asks us to accept the truth, even if it is found in the previous scriptures.
Where does God tell us to accept 'what is found in PREVIOUS SCRIPTURES' ? Have you actually opened the Quran before?
If the evidence is so weak, then it should be easy to refute. So far, u have just babbled and not given any actual proof that the evidence is wrong becoz of so and so. Simply denying it is no actualy proof. Pur your words where your mouth is and bring actualy evidence to prove it wrong
There's no point in giving evidence to you. You treat the Quran like a piece of excretion anyway. You claim 'quran teaches democracy' and 'god tells us to accept the truth' WITHOUT EVER CHECKING THE BOOK. Maybe you're the new messenger or something. The first messenger who never ever opens the book because it contradicts him at every point.
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Be decent and say you cant prove it wrong. That is much more noble than to rant on and on about how something cannot be accepted when you have nothig to support that.
I can't prove it wrong, you're right but only to people like you WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE BOOK. You prefer to believe the hadith , the source material for this malarkey, so that's fine. You can do whatever you want. I imagine you can't even tell me what my argument is. Care to try? You know what they say about fools keeping thier mouths shut . Want to banish the doubt ? Go on, tell me what my argument is, if you can.
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Peace,
what a cryptic dialogue you both are having. Why mquran and The Nabi speak like this to Jaxal?, mquran in this thread and The Nabi in another thread. What's the problem in speaking simple questions and answers?
Maybe you three are having lots of fun but others, me, gets nothing.
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SaLaM Elena
Actually i understand their skepticism. There was a time when I too dealt this information with hostility. But later i understood the bigger picture. God guides who He wills. Maybe in time they too will understand http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif
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what a cryptic dialogue you both are having. Why mquran and The Nabi speak like this to Jaxal?, mquran in this thread and The Nabi in another thread. What's the problem in speaking simple questions and answers?
Maybe you three are having lots of fun but others, me, gets nothing.Elena, any question at all you want answering, I'd be quite happy to attempt to do so. With this person, I am unable to answer directly because he lacks the civility to answer questions directly. To this point, he cannot tell us what my argument was, even though he deems it wrong. I find this very amusing but I guess I'll have to stop soon.