Al-Dhikr and the detailing of al-kitaab
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Salaam el-Aziz,
I do not believe they are nine rules. He's saying that if he knows the quran then he must believe these things therein. MQ does not mentioned belief in Allah, but obviously we know this is something else we should believe in. However, since this topic has a theme, MQ has brought forth some things that one should believe in which the quran teaches. I hope you understand.
Joe
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The fact is that what mq stated was interpretations of his own on these verses, not explicit "commands" of the reading.
Agree.. all of the points he listed are HIS INTERPRETATIOIN of what he thinks he sees and not what the quran says or what the Bible says..
Take point number 4 for example, where he THINKS the reference made in 9111 cant be found in the Bible. But when one looks, it is easy to find it in 1st Corinthians 619-20
"GOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of GOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is His truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph."
"Haven't you yet learned that your body is the home of the Holy Spirit God gave you, and that it lives within you? Your own body does not belong to you. For God has bought you with a great price. So use every part of your body to give glory back to God because he owns it."
Even after Muhammad adding his personal touch to 1st Corinthians 619-20. The Original source of 9111 can still be recognised.. But Muhammad misread the underlined blue section in Corinthians and thought "use every part of your body" meant to "Kill and Be Killed". An easy mistake to make for someone who didn't study Corinthians carefully, which Muhammad didn't.....
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Salaam,
Even after Muhammad adding his personal touch to 1st Corinthians 619-20. The Original source of 9111 can still be recognised..
Here Albion is mentioning that the two passages are obvious not the same. S/he subtly decides to say that Muhammad added a 'personal touch', but this passage is originally Biblical. Anything for the mission . Even foresight is here abandoned.
Joe
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I notice you are having troubles addressing the issue Joe and answering questions asked. So here again is the question you are avoiding to answer
Albion is fixated on kitaab being the Bible, and tauraat being Torah and injeel being the Gospel.
Try reading Muhammads little book sometime Joe !!!
2113 And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing, and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing; yet both are readers of the Scripture (kitab).
Maybe you would like to tell us what BOOK/Scripture (kitab) the Jews and Christians read if its not the Bible,Torah and Gospel ????
I added the ???? so you would recognise it as a Question !!
Another Question for you Joe (when you've answered the above)
Can you please provide a link to a thread where I have said this underlined section below ???? ...
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Take your time you will need it !!!!
Even foresight is here abandoned
Are you talking about the foresight Muhammad didn't have by not seeing that the original source of his material is easy to recognise
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Salaam Albion,
Man if you keep editing your posts you'll have me lost. Why don't you leave your posts as they are?
When I say you and Apple Pie have mentioned that you are here to convert people, it's in Apple Pie's own words and your own when you both try to show us that the quran is simply an imitation of the Bible which we should be following since it is al-kitaab. I'm saying, you can read your own posts to see that. You need not take you time, it's clear as day.
Joe
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How do you do mq,
Salaam Stephane,
Albion used the quran to 'prove' his point. I therefore said, if you believe in the verse you pasted, you must believe it said so and so. That's all. I did no tafseer of my own by read directly from the quran.
what is the obvious connection between Albion believing in one verse and being obligated to believe 9 other things of separate places in the reading?
That is this far anyway, a very interpretation of your own. -
your own when you both try to show us that the quran is simply an imitation of the Bible which we should be following since it is al-kitaab.
You are seeing things Joe.... I have no interesting in converting anyone, Christians dont get browny points for converting people. The browny points system is unique to the quran where if you "Kill and be killed" in the cause of Allah of get extra browny points and a free pass to salvation. There is no such Browny Points system in Christianity !!!
my interest is in defending "The Prince of Peace" and his teaching..
And why hit the panic button Joe, if your faith is strong and you have the truth you should have nothing to worry about... but I see a sudden panic attack !!
What is alkitaab?
Obviously what the Christians believe in is not what the Jews believe in. The Jews do not heed the Gospel.
How do they have the same book? Do the Jews follow the Gospel?
Joe the Quran says THEY (Christians and Jews) Read the Scripture (kitab) this means it is in a PRINTED (typed or written form)
The Quran also says Moses was given the FULLY DETAILEDScripture (Kitab) .. Both the Bible and the Torah containes this FULLY DETAILED Scripture (Kitab) that was given to Moses (This is a Fact)
You still avoided the question.!! What is it that the Jews and Christians READ according to the Quran in that verse given ?? ....
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Salaam,
Both the Bible and the Torah containes this FULLY DETAILED Scripture (Kitab) that was given to Moses (This is a Fact)
1 - The Bible and the Torah could be one and the same thing. Why mention Bible and Torah? Are you uneducated about this?
2 - Or do you mean Bible as in the Old and New Testaments? If so then Moses was not given most of the Old Testament nor the Gospel.
What is it that the Jews and Christians READ according to the Quran in that verse given ?? ....
Jews and Christians. According to your translation. Are you sure you are reading the ayatin correctly. Anyways, if we are to say that these are Jews and Christians, alkitaab is mentioned as the book they follow. This brings me back to my previous post and the questions given you therein.
Joe
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what is the obvious connection between Albion believing in one verse and being obligated to believe 9 other things of separate places in the reading?
That is this far anyway, a very interpretation of your own.Please read his writing again. He noted down the numbers 28/48-49 while only quoting 49. You may feel this ok but I don't, I believe in ethical , truthful discussions. Do you know where the 9 things come in? If you don't, kindly read the posting. There's no point in asking me something already clearly in the thread.
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Salaam el-Aziz,
Yea, exactly. If the Torah is part of the Bible why mention the Torah and the Bible containing kitaab in the first place? Why not just the Bible? Which lead to my second point. Moses and the Bible. According to tradition he wrote the 1st five books. Albion says that this Torah and Bible which constitutes al-kitaab was given to Moses. How so? I'm wondering. Albion must explain him/herself.
Joe
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4 That at-tauraat and al-injeel contain promises mentioned in 9/111 and also information about the messenger and his followers in 48/29yet 'torah' and 'gospel' contain no such promises (but a lot of good pornography for the discerning adult)
MQ?s point about the reference to 9111 not being in the Bible has been proved WRONG as the Original Source of 9111 CLEARLY came from 1st Corinthians as shown in earlier Posts
Now lets look at MQ?s Second FALSE Statement in Point Number 4 where he CLAIMS the TWO references to 4829 cant be found in the Torah and Gospel
Muhammad - the messenger of GOD - and those with him are harsh and stern against the disbelievers, but kind and compassionate amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating, as they seek GOD's blessings and approval. Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah. Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers. GOD promises those among them who believe, and lead a righteous life, forgiveness and a great recompense.
Firstly the Reference to the Example in the Torah which is the highlighted Blue section
"Their marks are on their faces, because of prostrating. This is the same example as in the Torah"
A quick look in the FULLY Detailed Scripture (kitab) given to Moses reveals the example that Muhammad was talking about.
2Ch 73 And all the children of Israel looked on, when the fire came down, and the glory of Jehovah was upon the house; and they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and gave thanks unto Jehovah, saying, For he is good; for his lovingkindness endureth for ever.
Exo 2838 And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, and Aaron shall bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before Jehovah.
Exo 3435 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
Neh 86 and Ezra blessed Jehovah, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with the lifting up of their hands and they bowed their heads, and worshipped Jehovah with their faces to the ground.
Num 206 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tent of meeting, and fell upon their faces and the glory of Jehovah appeared unto them.
Jdg 1320 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of Jehovah ascended in the flame of the altar and Manoah and his wife looked on; and they fell on their faces to the ground.
1Ki 1839 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and they said, Jehovah, he is God; Jehovah, he is God.
1Ch 2117 Then David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
Concidering the Fact that over 90% of the quran can be sourced back to the Bible, its an easy matter to find all such references even after they have been twisted. So MQ is just showing his lack of knowlege by making such false statements in his attempt to defend Muhammads copy of the Bible
"Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers"
MQ's other False claim about this reference is also easy to find in the gospel and will be posted in next post.
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Is it prerequite for you Christians boys to undergo a lobotomy before entering the house of Paul, oops i mean 'Jesus'?
In none of the examples you have provided from your paedophilic, racist book is the complete statement given by 48/29? God isn't a dumbass like you where he needs to patch up verses from here and there. When God says they sell thier SOULS AND WEALTH, he means souls and wealth. Of course, I can't expect bible-toters to take God seriously. After all , he did lose his WWF to Jacob thus making him 'israil'
No wonder you keep saying 'little book'. The way the bible carries forth, you must feel little all day long..lol
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4 That at-tauraat and al-injeel contain promises mentioned in 9/111 and also information about the messenger and his followers in 48/29yet 'torah' and 'gospel' contain no such promises (but a lot of good pornography for the discerning adult)
The next FALSE CLAIM that MQ made is the second part of 4829
The Reference to the Example in the Gospel as highlighted in Red
"Their example in the Gospel is like plants that grow taller and stronger, and please the farmers. He thus enrages the disbelievers."
This is a well known parable of Jesus called the "Parable of the Seed" found in Matthew 13
The Parable of the Seed
13 24 Jesus told them another parable "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.
1325 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
1326 When the wheat sprang up and brought fruit, then the weeds also appeared.
1327 "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
13 28 'An enemy did this,' he replied. "The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
1329" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
1330 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
1331 Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field
1332 which indeed is less than all seeds; but when it is grown, it is greater than the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven come and lodge in the branches thereof.
The Parable of the Seeds Explained
1336 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
1337He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.
1338 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
1339 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
13 40 "As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
1341 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
1342 They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
1343 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
One can see how DETAILED the Scripture is compared to Muhammads version.
Everytime Mahammad copied from the Scripture he added his self serving parts to twist Gods word. Like Muhammads interest in Booty etc
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Being full of bullshit doesn't make a thing 'detailed', except 'detailed in bullshit'. I dont want to follow a book 'detailed in bullshit'. I'll leave that paedophilic, racist, foreskin collecting morons like yourself. If your God can only approximate and not reproduce, its no wonder you people can believe his 'son' died.