DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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Hundreds of millions eat pork, why doesn?t, at least a few, get sick and/or die from it, if it is unhealthy?
Your question is as silly as Priest's argument but now when you have asked it
Trichinellosis became a nationally reportable disease in 1966 in USA
Trichinellosis has a broad clinical presentation, ranging from asymptomatic to fatal. Initial symptoms of abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, and low-grade fever might occur within 1 week of ingestion of infected meat, as the larvae invade the bowel wall. These symptoms might be followed in approximately 1--8 weeks by facial edema, peripheral edema, headaches, intermittent fever, conjunctivitis, rashes, pruritus, cough, myalgia, and eosinophilia, as the larvae migrate through the tissues and encyst in the muscles (2,3). Fatal cases might result from neurologic and myocardial complications (3).And one of the major cause for this disease is Pig.
During 1947--1951, a median of 393 cases (range 327--487) was reported annually, including 57 trichinellosis-related deaths
Another list of diseases and deaths related with pork can be given; but that is not the point other animals can cause similar diseases too.
Quran is very clear it says "laham al khanzeer" is prohibted
"Laham" is "Flesh" Khanzeer is "swine" in Arabic
In Hebrew it is "Khazeer" in aramanic it is "Khanzeer" all these languages are interelated, if any one has another translation for that he should bring it forward and back it with some evidences.Now if some one after these clear verses of Quran wants to have the pork; well there is no law in the world which can stop him/her go on enjoy.
Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Islam as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.
They consult you concerning what is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for you are all good things, including what trained dogs and falcons catch for you." You train them according to GOD's teachings. You may eat what they catch for you, and mention GOD's name thereupon. You shall observe GOD. GOD is most efficient in reckoning.Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, . Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.
You and the others continue to mistranslate khinzeerin, however, it doesn't matter,
It does matter what is your translation???
For those who are Jewish we prohibited animals with undivided hoofs; and of the cattle and sheep we prohibited the fat, except that which is carried on their backs, or in the viscera, or mixed with bones. That was a retribution for their transgressions, and we are truthful.
Ok; let us assume that Allah never prohibited Pork for Jews and accept your logic for a while that the translations of all the scholars are wrong.
Then it was past about Jews and the present is Quran the final revelation which is saying that from now the pig is prohibited for Jews as well for Muslims.
6145] Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.and if you still not believe
If they disbelieve you, then say, "Your Lord possesses infinite mercy, but His retribution is unavoidable for the guilty people."because ayats 55 and 6146, when taken together, completely destroy any such notion of the pig being haram. You have yet to refute the 55 and 6146 argument which proves the pig was never ahram to Jews or mankind
Now; here is the point where you are confused and trying to make others confusesd.
PIG was not Haraam for Jews before but from now on it is.
This is only if we follow your lame argument.But infact by your logic or by our logic Conclusion is the same SWINE is prohibited in QURAn! for what reason that is another deabte!
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
I am inclined to think that the pig is ?innocent?...If you, or anyone, can come up with a proof, i.e. that pig?s meat is foul, I will follow that...However, the pork-ban is so deep rooted in me that I probably won?t eat it anyway. Therefore nothing much will change for me, one way or another, but I would still like to know.
I'm so glad that you made these comments, because it shows the power of jibt/superstition ( superstition to maintain a belief despite the evidence to the contrary.) The question is, given that Allah didn't make the pig haram, hence, as you so well put it, is innocent, why then, wouldn't you eat it? Not to eat it if the opportunity presented it self, is to not believe Allah, but others, hence, ibt/superstition...is shirk. I am not accusing you of shirk at all, Ali, I'm just remarking about how subtle it can it be at times. Looking forward to your thoughts.
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Ra-jah,
Hundreds of millions eat pork, why doesn?t, at least a few, get sick and/or die from it, if it is unhealthy?
Your question is as silly as Priest's argument but now when you have asked it
Trichinellosis became a nationally reportable disease in 1966 in USA
Trichinellosis has a broad clinical presentation, ranging from asymptomatic to fatal. Initial symptoms of abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, constipation, and low-grade fever might occur within 1 week of ingestion of infected meat, as the larvae invade the bowel wall. These symptoms might be followed in approximately 1--8 weeks by facial edema, peripheral edema, headaches, intermittent fever, conjunctivitis, rashes, pruritus, cough, myalgia, and eosinophilia, as the larvae migrate through the tissues and encyst in the muscles (2,3). Fatal cases might result from neurologic and myocardial complications (3).And one of the major cause for this disease is Pig.
During 1947--1951, a median of 393 cases (range 327--487) was reported annually, including 57 trichinellosis-related deaths
Another list of diseases and deaths related with pork can be given; but that is not the point other animals can cause similar diseases too.
Is trichinellosis common in the United States?
Infection was once very common and usually caused by ingestion of undercooked pork. However, infection is now relatively rare. During 1997-2001, an average of 12 cases per year were reported. The number of cases has decreased because of legislation prohibiting the feeding of raw-meat garbage to hogs, commercial and home freezing of pork, and the public awareness of the danger of eating raw or undercooked pork products. Cases are less commonly associated with pork products and more often associated with eating raw or undercooked wild game meats.
http//www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/trichinosis/factsht_trichinosis.htm#how_spread
Poof! there goes your silly argument.
Quran is very clear it says "laham al khanzeer" is prohibted "Laham" is "Flesh" Khanzeer is "swine" in Arabic. In Hebrew it is "Khazeer" in aramanic it is "Khanzeer" all these languages are interelated, if any one has another translation for that he should bring it forward and back it with some evidences. Now if some one after these clear verses of Quran wants to have the pork; well there is no law in the world which can stop him/her go on enjoy.
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad. The question which arises is...which definition does Allah use? Your defining khinzeerin as pig, vis a vis 55 and 6146, cannot be Quranically rationalized.
Ok; let us assume that Allah never prohibited Pork for Jews and accept your logic for a while that the translations of all the scholars are wrong. Then it was past about Jews and the present is Quran the final revelation which is saying that from now the pig is prohibited for Jews as well for Muslims. Now; here is the point where you are confused and trying to make others confusesd. PIG was not Haraam for Jews before but from now on it is. This is only if we follow your lame argument.
Thank you! you've made my point. Given that, the pig was never haram for the Jews, when ayat 55 is being revealed it had to have been lawful, thus, making it lawful for the Muslim as well; there is simply no denying this glaring fact, otherwise, a contradiction occurs between 53 and 55
53 Forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine...
55 This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them...
The question that arises now is, given that the pig was not haram for the Jews, on what basis then, are you claiming that Allah made it haram?
But infact by your logic or by our logic Conclusion is the same SWINE is prohibited in QURAn! for what reason that is another deabte!
Another debate?! LOL!! what, are you kidding?! this is the debate and you haven't remotely made a case that khinzeerin means pig. You have not overcome ayats 55 and 6146 and, you've had to admit that, Allah, per His Quran...did not make the pig haram to the Jews. So, what is your Quranic basis for why Allah made the pig haram to mankind with the coming of Al-Quran and not prior to the coming of Al-Quran? Please, no conjectures, speculations, notions, or opinions, just the Quranic FACT, thanks.
Now, for you and others to continue to translate khinzeerin as pig, in light of the 55 and 6146, is simply profound denial and superstiton.
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SaLaM Ali
Hundreds of millions eat pork, why doesn?t, at least a few, get sick and/or die from it, if it is unhealthy?
So while God is saying its unclean and dont eat it, you are stuck on how many deaths it has been responsible for?
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad.
Suddenly??? Wow PB looks like God is opening ur eyes Loooooolllll
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Peace Raj-ah,
Hundreds of millions eat pork, why doesn?t, at least a few, get sick and/or die from it, if it is unhealthy?
Your question is as silly as Priest's argument but now when you have asked it
Trichinellosis...Take the case of Spain, my country. We are around 45 millions of Spaniards. The vast majority of us eat pork several times a week. We do, our parents do, and our grand-parents do/did. I won't say the previous generations did because I didn't see them.
Personally I find revolting to eat animals, and especially cured ham that sometimes presents some white dots that people say they are salt and others say they are in the slices of ham because of the acorns the pigs were fed with. But for me they are simply worms cut into slices, therefore the "dots" look (my view, totally denied by other Spanish people, you can imagine)
But all of my personal likes and dislikes can't deny that Spaniards eat pork almost in a daily basis and still there are Spaniards on the earth surface, and quite healthy people they are.
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Same in the US. I know people who eat the pig in every meal. Pig for breakfast (what's breakfast without bacon/ham roll ). Pig for snack (pork rinds, pickled pig's feet). Pig for BBQ (no BBQ restaurant that doesn't serve baby back ribs). The list goes on... roll Personally, I don't touch the stuff... How can you beat chicken?... or a thick juicy steak! http//www.free-minds.org/forum/images/smiles/food.gif
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SaLaM Elena and zenje
Regardless weather people die or live or mutate into aliens. The fact remains that pigs are animals who are associated with eating feaces. Hence God has forbidden pork becoz its a filthy animal.
How can you beat chicken?... or a thick juicy steak!
Inded
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Salaam,
I do enjoy ribs. Sometimes I will have a hero with ham, but my usual is with turkey. I have not eaten ham bacon and I do not like pork sausages . Chicken and steak is good too. Lots of good food out there. Alot I've not eaten but I'm willing to try.
Joe
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Hi,
Trichinellosis, also called trichinosis, is caused by eating raw or undercooked meat of animals infected with the larvae of nematodes (roundworms) of the genus Trichinella. Infection occurs commonly in certain wild carnivorous (meat-eating) animals but may also occur in domestic pigs.
In addition to the classical agent T. spiralis (found worldwide in many carnivorous and omnivorous animals), several other species of Trichinella are now recognized, including T. pseudospiralis (mammals and birds worldwide), T. nativa (Arctic bears, Walrus), T. nelsoni (African predators and scavengers), and T. britovi (carnivores of Europe and western Asia).Rats and rodents are primarily responsible for maintaining the endemicity of this infection, so why not getting it directly from one of the main sources?
BEIJING (AFP) ?A restaurant in southern China's Guangdong province is doing a brisk business in rat dishes.?
Symptoms are nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, fatigue, fever, and abdominal discomfort are the first symptoms of trichinellosis. Headaches, fevers, chills, cough, eye swelling, aching joints and muscle pains, itchy skin, diarrhea, or constipation follow the first symptoms. If the infection is heavy, patients may experience difficulty coordinating movements, and have heart and breathing problems. In severe cases, death can occur.
For mild to moderate infections, most symptoms subside within a few months. Fatigue, weakness, and diarrhea may last for months.
During 1997?2001, a total of 72 cases of trichinellosis (median 12 cases annually; range 11?23 cases) were reported to the CDC (US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). The majority of these infections came from eating wild game, predominately bear. Wild game meat is becoming progressively more popular and those who prefer to consume not fully cooked meat are at increased risk of infection with trichinella. The CDC advises everyone to cook all meats, particularly wild game, to an internal temperature of 160? F (71? C).
Well, maybe Allah didn?t know about this? Pigs don?t even seem to be the main source for this disease.
A report published by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Economic Research Service states "Microbial pathogens in food cause between 6.5 million and 33 million cases of human illness and up to 9,000 deaths each year in the United States. Over 40 different foodborne pathogens are believed to cause human illness. The annual cost of human illness caused by seven foodborne pathogens for which we have estimates ranges between $5.6 billion and $9.4 billion. Meat and poultry are the primary sources."
The report states that "Foods most likely to carry pathogens are high-protein, nonacid foods, such as meat, poultry, seafood, dairy products, and eggs. . . . Farm livestock and poultry infected with microbial pathogens may expose other animals in a herd or flock by excreting pathogens, pathogen cysts, or larvae."11
Of the foodborne illnesses that are confirmed and reported to the CDC, over 90 percent are attributed to bacteria.12 Nine major foodborne pathogens cause human illness in the United States, including eight bacteria and one parasite Campylobacter jejuni, Clostridium perfringens, Escherichia coli 0157H7, Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella, Staphylococcus aureus, Shigella, Yersinia, and Toxoplasma gondii (the parasite). Poultry is specifically identified as a major source of Campylobacter jejuni or coli, Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, and Staphylococcus aureus. Chicken and turkey gravies are specifically identified, along with meat, meat stews, meat pies, and beef, as a major source of Clostridium perfringens.13
Ouch! What?s left?
So, stop eating or turn vegetarian, maybe even vegan, and save yourself from all these illnesses. Maybe the Hindus and Buddhists are on to something here, although some of them also eat meat?Strange, 72 reported cases of illness from eating carnivorous animals, mostly wild animals like bear (and because the meat was raw or undercooked), and 6.5 to 33 million cases of human illnesses with up to 9,000 deaths each year from eating, especially chicken and turkey. And also beef is a culprit.
Wouldn?t it make more sense to forbid chicken and turkey, then, or maybe meat in general? This seems to be some 100,000 times more dangerous to us.
I must say I begin to feel, very strongly, that the pig is comparatively innocent. The argument that pork is forbidden because it is foul doesn?t seem to hold water.
On the contrary, pork seems to be much healthier than chicken, turkey, beef etc.Anyway, the pig is not any worse than other living creatures.
So now ?God save the pig?.Regds
Ali Omar
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SaLaM Ali
The argument that pork is forbidden because it is foul doesn?t seem to hold
Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
You are more knowledgable than God?
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Dear Jaxal,
No I do not claim to be more knowledgeable than God, but I do know how to read simple English, and I am able to compare information, at least to some extent. ?
As far as I know, God has not translated 6.145 into English, or am I mistaken? shock
Regds
Ali Omar
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SaLaM Ali
As far as I know, God has not translated 6.145 into English, or am I mistaken?
I see. So if the verse was translated into anything BUT english, it wouldnt say that meat of the pig is foul? English translation or not, i will point out to you clearly where the "meat of pig, for it is foul" is in the aramaic.
Say "I do not find in what is inspired to me forbidden except that it be already dead, or blood, or the meat of pig, for it is foul; or what is corruptly dedicated to other than God." Whoever is forced without seeking disobedience or transgression, then your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.
Qul la ajidu feema oohiya ilayya muharraman AAala taAAimin yatAAamuhu illa an yakoona maytatan aw daman masfoohan aw lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun aw fisqan ohilla lighayri Allahi bihi famani idturra ghayra baghin wala AAadin fa-inna rabbaka ghafoorun raheemun.
Do you think God made a mistake and you and PB are the ones correcting God? Like RK correcting the Quran? Or is it that you are more knowledgable than God? Tell me bro, what is the secret?
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
Jaxal wrote I see. So if the verse was translated into anything BUT english, it wouldnt say that meat of the pig is foul? English translation or not, i will point out to you clearly where the "meat of pig, for it is foul" is in the aramaic. Do you think God made a mistake and you and PB are the ones correcting God? Like RK correcting the Quran? Or is it that you are more knowledgable than God? Tell me bro, what is the secret?
Jaxal, continues to ignore the following Quranic facts
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The Torah is not mankinds book of guidance, Al-Quran is.
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Allah, per His Quran, ayat 6146, informs us that, He only made haram to the Jews the species of animals with claws. Now, as pigs don't have claws, they could not have been one of the haram species of animals.
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If the pig is rijsun/foul, why then, did Allah allow the righteous people to eat it before the advent of Al-Quran? Even if one believes that the Torah forbade eating it, why did Allah allow Abraham and the righteous with him and before the advent of the Torah to eat it?
Peace.
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Dear Jaxal,
Repeat this a few more times, maybe it becomes the final truth. ?
You seem to have a sick pig, whereas mine is getting healthier and healthier. lol
Maybe you should care more for it, and for the words of God?There is no secret actually, just that some people are using their minds to think and some are using their minds to read lips.
Regds
Ali Omar
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Dear PRIEST_BOKMEI,
From what I?ve seen so far, dear Jaxal not only ignore the facts you mentioned, he ignores facts, full stop. ?
I will not waste my time on endless repetitions.
It?s another matter if new thoughts, or evidence, come into the picture.
For now the pig is off the sick list.Regds
Ali Omar
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
Dear PRIEST_BOKMEI,
From what I?ve seen so far, dear Jaxal not only ignore the facts you mentioned, he ignores facts, full stop. ?
I will not waste my time on endless repetitions.
It?s another matter if new thoughts, or evidence, come into the picture.
For now the pig is off the sick list.Regds
Ali Omar
All praises due to Allah. It is heartening to see people distance themselves, as you have done in this matter, from superstition and disbelief.
Peace to you.
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SaLaM Ali
There is no secret actually, just that some people are using their minds to think and some are using their minds to read lips.
Sorry bro, the words of God will supercede yours and pb's word any day of the week of the month of the year D . If God says pork is unclean/foul , then pork is unclean/foul. Why?
Becoz God Says So D
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But all of my personal likes and dislikes can't deny that Spaniards eat pork almost in a daily basis and still there are Spaniards on the earth surface, and quite healthy people they are.
You have commented on my post without completely reading it. Just go through it once more if you can.
Is trichinellosis common in the United States?
No, it is not but one omer asked that he has seen no such a case and I showed him hundreds.
You just did not read the complete post sorry for you and your comments.Priest wrote
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad.
Now here it is! hmmm defined as both , then why you chose the second.
Just replace ill seeming with the Pig and it will be the most vague definitation ever found. Now that is seeming ill to me may be is not seeming to you, what about blind?? you will have to come up with a translation "ill smelling" lol
You seem ill informed regarding the languages, in all the scriptures of those times Khanzeer is translated into "Swine/Pig" in Arabic, in aramanic, and in Hebrew.
You are just Guessing and what a bad Guess it is.Thank you! you've made my point. Given that, the pig was never haram for the Jews, when ayat 55 is being revealed it had to have been lawful, thus, making it lawful for the Muslim as well; there is simply no denying this glaring fact, otherwise, a contradiction occurs between 53 and 55
Contradiction is in your mind and not in QUran but your haughty attitude is not allowing you to over come it.
Read the following verses for one final time and just think for a while without being bias.Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, ............... Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.
So according to you the Pig was never Haram for jews, Ok let us agree for sake of argument therfore whatever the Jews ate is law ful for Muslims now, BUT what you fail to consider is that with every thing becoming law ful there are few exceptions of the things repeated in 5 different verses including in the folowing verse.Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination..........
And Alhamadulllilah we find no contradiction in God's words.
Your argument has been sunked inmto river Nile.
Have you ever asked any Jew that does he eats Pig or not? and if not why??
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Ra-jah,
Priest wrote
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad.
Now here it is! hmmm defined as both , then why you chose the second. Just replace ill seeming with the Pig and it will be the most vague definitation ever found. Now that is seeming ill to me may be is not seeming to you, what about blind?? you will have to come up with a translation "ill smelling" lol You seem ill informed regarding the languages, in all the scriptures of those times Khanzeer is translated into "Swine/Pig" in Arabic, in aramanic, and in Hebrew. You are just Guessing and what a bad Guess it is.
LOL! if you would simply use your common sense, you'd realize that I didn't choose the second...Allah did! If khinzeer meant the animal pig, then long ago you, Marie, Tanveer, Jaxal, S. Carrot whoever, would have been able to refute, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 which makes it impossible for khinzerin to mean the animal pig. To date, none of you have been able to explain away ayats 55, 4160, 55, and 6146. Here, let me post them again for you
4160 For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been LAWFUL for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way;-
Allah, per the above ayat, never made any food haram to the Jews or anyone due to its being foul by nature or that it was foul for the eater to eat. He made it haram as a punishment and, it was previously halal!
55 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them...
Al-Quran is the GUIDANCE for mankind, so, where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews? Given that Allah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews, hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran.
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
Pigs don't have claws, hence, they are excluded from this category, period, end of story. Even if one wanted to mistranslate thufr to mean undivded hoof, ayat 4160 makes it clear that it would have only been haram due its being a punishment for the Jews and not because it was foul/rijsun. In addition, ayat 4160 makes it clear that the haram animals, before being made haram as a punishment, were HALAL AND WHOLESOME, hence, the pig, previous to the Jews transgressing, would have had to have been halal. So, if the pig is forbidden to us now, why then, did Allah allow the righteous to eat it for ages and only inform mankind that it is foul/rijsun with the coming of Al-Quran? If it is foul now then it would have had to have always been foul, so, where is your proof of that?
Contradiction is in your mind and not in QUran but your haughty attitude is not allowing you to over come it. Read the following verses for one final time and just think for a while without being bias.
Please, you are referring to yourself and not me. Just because you wish khinzeerin to mean the animal pig is not going to make it so. Ayats 4160. 55, and 6146 prevents you or anyone else from doing this.
Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, ............... Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.
So according to you the Pig was never Haram for jews,
Not according to me, but according to Allah per ayat 6146, to wit pigs don't have claws. When is that going to resonate with you?
Ok let us agree for sake of argument therfore whatever the Jews ate is law ful for Muslims now, BUT what you fail to consider is that with every thing becoming law ful there are few exceptions of the things repeated in 5 different verses including in the folowing verse.
There can be no exception, because that would create a contradiction. The pig, prior to the coming of Al-Quran, per ayat 6146, was not haram for the Jews (pigs don't have clwas), hence, on what grounds then, does it all of sudden become become haram for the Jews and the rest of mankind? It can't be because it is foul/rijsun, because if that was/is the case then Allah would have mentioned this fact in ayat 6146 and it would have been haram for Abraham and the righteous with him and, if this is the case, where is your proof? If you cannot prove this, well, you cannot declare that the pig was haram for Abraham, because you don't know and, what you don't know, per ayat 1736, you are not allowed to follow/believe
1736 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge ( certitude of); for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
Have you ever asked any Jew that does he eats Pig or not? and if not why??
Of course I have and most respond that it is the tradition not to eat it. Anyway, what is the point of your question? Is the word of the Jew going to supercede ayats 4160, 55, and 6146?
Ra-jah, pack it up. There simply is no way to overcome ayats 4150, 55, and 6146, period. If there were, Marie, S. Carrot or Tanveer, would have done so.
lol