DO AYATS 5:5 AND 6:146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...?
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
Jaxal wrote I see. So if the verse was translated into anything BUT english, it wouldnt say that meat of the pig is foul? English translation or not, i will point out to you clearly where the "meat of pig, for it is foul" is in the aramaic. Do you think God made a mistake and you and PB are the ones correcting God? Like RK correcting the Quran? Or is it that you are more knowledgable than God? Tell me bro, what is the secret?
Jaxal, continues to ignore the following Quranic facts
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The Torah is not mankinds book of guidance, Al-Quran is.
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Allah, per His Quran, ayat 6146, informs us that, He only made haram to the Jews the species of animals with claws. Now, as pigs don't have claws, they could not have been one of the haram species of animals.
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If the pig is rijsun/foul, why then, did Allah allow the righteous people to eat it before the advent of Al-Quran? Even if one believes that the Torah forbade eating it, why did Allah allow Abraham and the righteous with him and before the advent of the Torah to eat it?
Peace.
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Dear Jaxal,
Repeat this a few more times, maybe it becomes the final truth. ?
You seem to have a sick pig, whereas mine is getting healthier and healthier. lol
Maybe you should care more for it, and for the words of God?There is no secret actually, just that some people are using their minds to think and some are using their minds to read lips.
Regds
Ali Omar
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Dear PRIEST_BOKMEI,
From what I?ve seen so far, dear Jaxal not only ignore the facts you mentioned, he ignores facts, full stop. ?
I will not waste my time on endless repetitions.
It?s another matter if new thoughts, or evidence, come into the picture.
For now the pig is off the sick list.Regds
Ali Omar
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
Dear PRIEST_BOKMEI,
From what I?ve seen so far, dear Jaxal not only ignore the facts you mentioned, he ignores facts, full stop. ?
I will not waste my time on endless repetitions.
It?s another matter if new thoughts, or evidence, come into the picture.
For now the pig is off the sick list.Regds
Ali Omar
All praises due to Allah. It is heartening to see people distance themselves, as you have done in this matter, from superstition and disbelief.
Peace to you.
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SaLaM Ali
There is no secret actually, just that some people are using their minds to think and some are using their minds to read lips.
Sorry bro, the words of God will supercede yours and pb's word any day of the week of the month of the year D . If God says pork is unclean/foul , then pork is unclean/foul. Why?
Becoz God Says So D
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But all of my personal likes and dislikes can't deny that Spaniards eat pork almost in a daily basis and still there are Spaniards on the earth surface, and quite healthy people they are.
You have commented on my post without completely reading it. Just go through it once more if you can.
Is trichinellosis common in the United States?
No, it is not but one omer asked that he has seen no such a case and I showed him hundreds.
You just did not read the complete post sorry for you and your comments.Priest wrote
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad.
Now here it is! hmmm defined as both , then why you chose the second.
Just replace ill seeming with the Pig and it will be the most vague definitation ever found. Now that is seeming ill to me may be is not seeming to you, what about blind?? you will have to come up with a translation "ill smelling" lol
You seem ill informed regarding the languages, in all the scriptures of those times Khanzeer is translated into "Swine/Pig" in Arabic, in aramanic, and in Hebrew.
You are just Guessing and what a bad Guess it is.Thank you! you've made my point. Given that, the pig was never haram for the Jews, when ayat 55 is being revealed it had to have been lawful, thus, making it lawful for the Muslim as well; there is simply no denying this glaring fact, otherwise, a contradiction occurs between 53 and 55
Contradiction is in your mind and not in QUran but your haughty attitude is not allowing you to over come it.
Read the following verses for one final time and just think for a while without being bias.Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, ............... Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.
So according to you the Pig was never Haram for jews, Ok let us agree for sake of argument therfore whatever the Jews ate is law ful for Muslims now, BUT what you fail to consider is that with every thing becoming law ful there are few exceptions of the things repeated in 5 different verses including in the folowing verse.Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination..........
And Alhamadulllilah we find no contradiction in God's words.
Your argument has been sunked inmto river Nile.
Have you ever asked any Jew that does he eats Pig or not? and if not why??
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Ra-jah,
Priest wrote
Khinzeerin, is defined as both pig and what is seen as ill-seeming/bad.
Now here it is! hmmm defined as both , then why you chose the second. Just replace ill seeming with the Pig and it will be the most vague definitation ever found. Now that is seeming ill to me may be is not seeming to you, what about blind?? you will have to come up with a translation "ill smelling" lol You seem ill informed regarding the languages, in all the scriptures of those times Khanzeer is translated into "Swine/Pig" in Arabic, in aramanic, and in Hebrew. You are just Guessing and what a bad Guess it is.
LOL! if you would simply use your common sense, you'd realize that I didn't choose the second...Allah did! If khinzeer meant the animal pig, then long ago you, Marie, Tanveer, Jaxal, S. Carrot whoever, would have been able to refute, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 which makes it impossible for khinzerin to mean the animal pig. To date, none of you have been able to explain away ayats 55, 4160, 55, and 6146. Here, let me post them again for you
4160 For the iniquity of the Jews We made unlawful for them certain (foods) good and wholesome which had been LAWFUL for them;- in that they hindered many from Allah's Way;-
Allah, per the above ayat, never made any food haram to the Jews or anyone due to its being foul by nature or that it was foul for the eater to eat. He made it haram as a punishment and, it was previously halal!
55 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them...
Al-Quran is the GUIDANCE for mankind, so, where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews? Given that Allah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews, hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran.
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.
Pigs don't have claws, hence, they are excluded from this category, period, end of story. Even if one wanted to mistranslate thufr to mean undivded hoof, ayat 4160 makes it clear that it would have only been haram due its being a punishment for the Jews and not because it was foul/rijsun. In addition, ayat 4160 makes it clear that the haram animals, before being made haram as a punishment, were HALAL AND WHOLESOME, hence, the pig, previous to the Jews transgressing, would have had to have been halal. So, if the pig is forbidden to us now, why then, did Allah allow the righteous to eat it for ages and only inform mankind that it is foul/rijsun with the coming of Al-Quran? If it is foul now then it would have had to have always been foul, so, where is your proof of that?
Contradiction is in your mind and not in QUran but your haughty attitude is not allowing you to over come it. Read the following verses for one final time and just think for a while without being bias.
Please, you are referring to yourself and not me. Just because you wish khinzeerin to mean the animal pig is not going to make it so. Ayats 4160. 55, and 6146 prevents you or anyone else from doing this.
Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, ............... Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.
So according to you the Pig was never Haram for jews,
Not according to me, but according to Allah per ayat 6146, to wit pigs don't have claws. When is that going to resonate with you?
Ok let us agree for sake of argument therfore whatever the Jews ate is law ful for Muslims now, BUT what you fail to consider is that with every thing becoming law ful there are few exceptions of the things repeated in 5 different verses including in the folowing verse.
There can be no exception, because that would create a contradiction. The pig, prior to the coming of Al-Quran, per ayat 6146, was not haram for the Jews (pigs don't have clwas), hence, on what grounds then, does it all of sudden become become haram for the Jews and the rest of mankind? It can't be because it is foul/rijsun, because if that was/is the case then Allah would have mentioned this fact in ayat 6146 and it would have been haram for Abraham and the righteous with him and, if this is the case, where is your proof? If you cannot prove this, well, you cannot declare that the pig was haram for Abraham, because you don't know and, what you don't know, per ayat 1736, you are not allowed to follow/believe
1736 And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge ( certitude of); for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).
Have you ever asked any Jew that does he eats Pig or not? and if not why??
Of course I have and most respond that it is the tradition not to eat it. Anyway, what is the point of your question? Is the word of the Jew going to supercede ayats 4160, 55, and 6146?
Ra-jah, pack it up. There simply is no way to overcome ayats 4150, 55, and 6146, period. If there were, Marie, S. Carrot or Tanveer, would have done so.
lol
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LOL! if you would simply use your common sense, you'd realize that I didn't choose the second...Allah did! If khinzeer meant the animal pig, then long ago you, Marie, Tanveer, Jaxal, S. Carrot whoever, would have been able to refute, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 which makes it impossible for khinzerin to mean the animal pig. To date, none of you have been able to explain away ayats 55, 4160, 55, and 6146.
As usual Priest responding with ad hominiems. I have not read the comments of others except Jaxal, but one thing is clear You are misguided. There is nothing to refute at all, you are Just trying to translate and mold the Quranic verses as per your needs, in which you have badly failed.
All the tradtions
All the Historical events
and All the Quranic verses go against your claim.
Now if I say there is God and an aethist says there is none, even after all the arguments, debates and evidences provided we are still in dead lock, it is a stale mate, similarly it is with you.Al-Quran is the GUIDANCE for mankind, so, where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews? Given that Allah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews, hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran.
You are Just showing your ignorance or trying to dodge what I have said
Mr. Priest.
Sure, Al-Quran is GUIDANCE to mankind.where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews?
This is a senseless question
Where does Allah tells in Quran there were Dinosaurs??
So applying your following logicAllah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews,
Allah didnot mentioned Dinosaur therefore There would have been no Dinosaur, therefore at the time Quran was revealed the Dinosaurs had not yet been existing. Pathetic!
hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran
No, read the following verses
He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
53] Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Submission as the religion for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful.
Now if we analyse the verse it says The animals that die of disease, attacked by wild animal, fallen from height etc. these all types of meat may seem ill to eyes but before mentioning these Allah mentions "Laham Al Khanzeer".
Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful
Now even if it was Halal for Jews, it has become Haram after these verses for both Jews and Muslims as it surpasses the previous teachings.
In singapore and China they eat snake, In philippines and Korea they eat Dogs, but the Filipinos think ill of eating snakes, do you got it, if we use your definition which nobody uses of the word Khanzeer, then it is the most vague definition ever in this context.He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs*, and food which is dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to GOD will never succeed.
Allah Ho Akbar; how clearly Quran explains about people like you and False Nabi's.16105] The only ones who fabricate false doctrines are those who do not believe in GOD's revelations; they are the real liars.
Ra-jah, pack it up. There simply is no way to overcome ayats 4150, 55, and 6146, period. If there were, Marie, S. Carrot or Tanveer, would have done so.
I have shown it to you that even if except your theory still Pig is not HALAL simply because the verses you quoted talk about past and at the most they say Food of Jews is lawful to you and yours to Jews but there are execptions which include "Khanzeer" the fact you cannot deny.
As Jaxal has Said they all did and I take his words for that.
I don't think so any air is left in your claim, but if anyone else who thinks your claim is correct and can come up with any thing new, we can discuss it. But before doing that please read the entire posts.Thanks and Regards.
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Peace Raj-ah,
You just did not read the complete post sorry for you and your comments.
I understand you are sorry for me if you think I didn't read properly, or I didn't pay enough attention or I am a bad reader or bad at English, etc, I understand that, but why are you sorry for my comments? ?
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Ra-jah,
PBM LOL! if you would simply use your common sense, you'd realize that I didn't choose the second...Allah did! If khinzeer meant the animal pig, then long ago you, Marie, Tanveer, Jaxal, S. Carrot whoever, would have been able to refute, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55, and 6146 which makes it impossible for khinzerin to mean the animal pig. To date, none of you have been able to explain away ayats 55, 4160, 55, and 6146.
As usual Priest responding with ad hominiems. I have not read the comments of others except Jaxal, but one thing is clear You are misguided. There is nothing to refute at all, you are Just trying to translate and mold the Quranic verses as per your needs, in which you have badly failed.
All the tradtions
All the Historical events
and All the Quranic verses go against your claim.
Now if I say there is God and an aethist says there is none, even after all the arguments, debates and evidences provided we are still in dead lock, it is a stale mate, similarly it is with you.LOL! You accuse me of ad hominem arguement, when, in fact, your entire above comment, in response to a factual statement (none of you have refuted, when taken together, ayats 4160, 55, and 6146, makes the pig being haram absolutely impossible) is classic illustration of ad hominem argumentation.
PBM Al-Quran is the GUIDANCE for mankind, so, where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews? Given that Allah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews, hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran. I will point out more of your ad hominems.
You are Just showing your ignorance or trying to dodge what I have said Mr. Priest.
Ad hominem. Anyway, please don't confuse me with yourself or others...I don't dodge anything except people's games.
Sure, Al-Quran is GUIDANCE to mankind.
Well, if you really believe/accpet this, which I don't believe you do, then per ayat 6146, Allah tells you exactly what He forbade the Jews to eat and pork was not one of those things. Ayat 4160 tells you that Allah forbade the Jews a food source not because the food was rijsun, but because the Jews had transgressed and, prior to the prohibition, those foods were halal. Ayat 55, very clearly states that, the food of the People of the Book was/is halal for the Muslims and out food is lawful for them. Now, given the absolute fact that Allah never made the pig haram as food for the People of the Book, it was halal for them and mankind in general ( because there is no mention of it being haram to the People of the Book in Al-Quran), hence, the pig is halal for the Muslim. You nor anyone else can make haram something which Allah did not.
where does Allah in His Quran ever mention that the pig was haram for the Jews?
This is a senseless question. Where does Allah tells in Quran there were Dinosaurs?? So applying your following logic
PBM Allah didn't it would have to be halal, because He never declared it to be haram, hence, at the time 55 is being revealed, the pig was halal for the Jews,
Allah didnot mentioned Dinosaur therefore There would have been no Dinosaur, therefore at the time Quran was revealed the Dinosaurs had not yet been existing. Pathetic!
Your ad hominem is showing again lol. How can it be a senseless question, given that ayat 55 discusses food and its halalness relative to the People of the Book, which includes the Jews, and the Muslim?
We are discussing food sources and not the existence of dinosaurs. Dinosaurs, as a food source, is not under discussion...the pig, however, is. The dinosaurs, had they been around at the time of the Jews, many would have been haram to eat, because they had claws. However, for mankind in general they would have been halal then and now lol. Anyway, please stay focused, thanks.
PBM hence, halal for those who follow Al-Quran.
No, read the following verses
I have read those ayats and you don't understand them, hence, you continue to mistranslate khinzeerin to mean the pig. If khinzeerin means pig, then you S. Carrot, Tanveer, Jaxal, Marie, whoever, would be able to explain away... ayats 4160, 55, and 6146, which, when taken together, destroys any notion that khinzeerin can be translated as the animal pig. You people have not refuted the 4160/55/6146 argument, but only continue to talk around it, avoid it, deny it, but not at all refuted it. Understand this, your continuing to post mistranslated ayats is not a refutation of my argument. The only way to refute my argument is to prove that the pig, prior to Al-Quran, was haram to the mankind in general and the Jews in specific, otherwise, you are just blowing smoke.
The only ones who fabricate false doctrines are those who do not believe in GOD's revelations; they are the real liars.
I suggest that you spend the next few days contemplating the above ayat, because it directly pertains to you and Jaxal.
PBM Ra-jah, pack it up. There simply is no way to overcome ayats 4150, 55, and 6146, period. If there were, Marie, S. Carrot or Tanveer, would have done so.
I have shown it to you that even if except your theory still Pig is not HALAL simply because the verses you quoted talk about past and at the most they say Food of Jews is lawful to you and yours to Jews but there are execptions which include "Khanzeer" the fact you cannot deny. As Jaxal has Said they all did and I take his words for that. I don't think so any air is left in your claim, but if anyone else who thinks your claim is correct and can come up with any thing new, we can discuss it. But before doing that please read the entire posts.
LOL! your "exception"...constitutes a contradiction and Allah does not contradict Himself...ever. Until you can prove that, prior to Al-Quran, the pig was haram, then, ayat 55 by itself, destroys your argument. Contemplate the following ayat
16116 But say not - for any false thing that your tongues may put forth,- "This is lawful, and this is forbidden," so as to ascribe false things to Allah. For those who ascribe false things to Allah, will never prosper
Prove to us all where the pig was ever haram, prior (ostensibly) to the advent of Al-Quran. Good luck. wink
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Elena wrote
Peace Raj-ah,
Raj-ah wrote
You just did not read the complete post sorry for you and your comments.I understand you are sorry for me if you think I didn't read properly, or I didn't pay enough attention or I am a bad reader or bad at English, etc, I understand that, but why are you sorry for my comments?
Well I think your english is far better then mine. Why I felt sorry for your comments is because; this is what One Omer Ali wrote
Hundreds of millions eat pork, why doesn?t, at least a few, get sick and/or die from it, if it is unhealthy?
He is asking why not at least few get sick or die from it?
I showed him evidence that not only Few but there are Hundred of cases.
But in the end I wroteAnother list of diseases and deaths related with pork can be given; but that is not the point other animals can cause similar diseases too.
That it is not only the pig, who can cause this disease other animals can also cause this and this is not the point.
Therefore if Millions eat Pig and they don't die or get sick that does not make any point, as Millions drink vine but not all die or get sick by Drinking vine.
But offcourse drinking excessive vine is prohibited in our religon so many of us Just don't drink, shriah goes one step further and even Nips the evil in Bud by banning it. Shariah can be right or wrong but the basic is there.
Some Scholars says that Pig is HAram but Quran has not mentioned the fat of PIg therefore it is HALAL, now that is childish.
Similarly the Priest's attempt to bring forward a contradiction in Quran is, I am sorry to say CHILDISH.
Hope Elena this Clears a lot. -
For Last and Final Time Dear Priest on this Topic until and unless you have anything new.
Well, if you really believe/accpet this, which I don't believe you do, then per ayat 6146, Allah tells you exactly what He forbade the Jews to eat and pork was not one of those things.
OK; I already said Let us take your argument to be true for sake of discussion. So 6146 tells us that in Past; Jews were not forbidden to eat pork, Let us agree for sake of discussion.
(But to agree with this we have to deny Deutronomy, Leviticus, several Historical facts, all the translators, ignore the languages etc. WOW)Ayat 55, very clearly states that, the food of the People of the Book was/is halal for the Muslims and our food is lawful for them.
Ok; There food is Halal for Us and ours to them. So it means if Pig was Halal to them it also becomes Halal for Us, so far your logic has some weight, BUT THEN THERE ARE LIMITATIONS IN OUR FOODS FOR WHICH I HAVE QUOTED DIFFERENT VERSES WHICH INCLUDE PIG, therfore if PIG becomes Prohibited for MUSLIMS it also becomes Prohibited for JEWS, we have to follow the Instructions.
Your logic and argument is lame, Quran also doesnot mention the Prohibition for Jews of animals other than the following Now read it carefully6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones
Now if we take your Childish argument then Quran does not mention for Jews prohibition of animals that die of themselves, blood, and animals dedicated to other Than God.
Therfore according to you we should eat and drink blood becuase it was Lawful for Jews and the food of Jews has been made LAw ful for us, BUT HERE YOU FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT THAT QURAN ALSO SAYS THIS, IN ADDITION TO WHAT HAS BEEN SAIDHe only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than GOD. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
AND WE FIND NO CONTRADICTION IN WORDS OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY the LORD OF ABRAHAM, MOSES, RAM, JESUS, MUHAMMAD, MINE AND YOURS.
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Hi Raj-ah,
Sorry, I should have explained it more clearly.
6.145 says ?lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun?
If ?khinzeerin? here means pig then the verse says that pig is not allowed because it is foul.
I do not think God is lying, so the pig?s meat must be worse than any other meat, and therefore forbidden.To me foul means it is bad in some way, and if it concerns food, then the food that is bad must have some negative effect on the human body. And if one type of food is singled out, then this food must be worse than any other food. Otherwise, why specifically mention that particular food?
As there is no proof what so ever, that people eating pork is worse off than people eating other meat, rather the opposite, there is something wrong in this picture. It does not make sense.To my mind all meat from animals are detrimental to our health, but that is another story.
Regds
Ali Omar
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SaLaM Ali
6.145 says ?lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun?
If ?khinzeerin? here means pig then the verse says that pig is not allowed because it is foul.
I do not think God is lying, so the pig?s meat must be worse than any other meat, and therefore forbidden.Yes, you are finally getting it.
As there is no proof what so ever, that people eating pork is worse off than people eating other meat
I on occasion smoke weed. I know people who smoke weed on a regular basis. But if you came across them they wouldnt have an extra arm growing outta their body or an extra eye. The reason pork is foul is becoz pig eats its own crap and human crap.
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For Last and Final Time Dear Priest on this Topic until and unless you have anything new.
I'm not going to bring anything "new". I will continue to bring the Quranic facts, period. Falsehood must tbe continualy renewed.
OK; I already said Let us take your argument to be true for sake of discussion. So 6146 tells us that in Past; Jews were not forbidden to eat pork, Let us agree for sake of discussion. (But to agree with this we have to deny Deutronomy, Leviticus, several Historical facts, all the translators, ignore the languages etc. WOW)
I asked you before is...Al-Quran the Guidance of mankind or is the Torah the Guidance for mankind?
You replied "Sure, Al-Quran is GUIDANCE to mankind" ( see thread DO AYATS 55 AND 6146, PRECLUDE THE PIG AS BEING HARAM...? post Fri Oct 14, 2005 649 am ). So, why are you bringing up the Torah again?
446 Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say "We hear and we disobey"; and "Hear what is not Heard"; and "Ra'ina"; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said "What hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us"; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe.
541 O Messenger. let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places...
Now, given that Al-Quran is the Guidance for mankind and not the Torah, the things you listed i.e. "Deutronomy, Leviticus, several Historical facts", are not relevent. In addition, ayats 446 and 541 makes it clear the Torah cannot be trusted due to tampering. Ayat 6146, proves the Torah was tampered with, at least it parts of it translation anyway.
PBM Ayat 55, very clearly states that, the food of the People of the Book was/is halal for the Muslims and our food is lawful for them.
Ok; There food is Halal for Us and ours to them. So it means if Pig was Halal to them it also becomes Halal for Us, so far your logic has some weight,
Some weight?!
BUT THEN THERE ARE LIMITATIONS IN OUR FOODS FOR WHICH I HAVE QUOTED DIFFERENT VERSES WHICH INCLUDE PIG, therfore if PIG becomes Prohibited for MUSLIMS it also becomes Prohibited for JEWS, we have to follow the Instructions
.These "limitations" which you Tanveer, S.Carrot, Marie, and some others continue to argue, are what you people claim and not what Allah claims and they contradict Allah's Quran. Marie, for example, knows this and that is why she continues to forward the "grammar" argument which has also failed. By your logic, and you've said this, something must be wrong with the pig to make it haram, however, where does Allah, per his Quran, mention, prior to the advent of Al-Quran, that the pig is haram? If it is harmful to those who were given Al-Quran, then it must have been harmful for those prior to the advent of Al-Quran, yet, Allah, per ayat 6146, states exactly/indisputably, what He made haram to a party of those who preceded the advent of Al-Quran and the pig is not found among those haram animals.
Your logic and argument is lame, Quran also doesnot mention the Prohibition for Jews of animals other than the following Now read it carefully.
6146 And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones
LOL! what, exactly, is the point you struggling to make? What am I supposed to be "reading carefully"? Read the ayat yourself and tell me how can the pig be represented in what Allah made haram? LOL! it is not my that logic is lame, the problem is, a failure on your part to use logic!
Now if we take your Childish argument then Quran does not mention for Jews prohibition of animals that die of themselves, blood, and animals dedicated to other Than God. Therfore according to you we should eat and drink blood becuase it was Lawful for Jews and the food of Jews has been made LAw ful for us, BUT HERE YOU FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT THAT QURAN ALSO SAYS THIS, IN ADDITION TO WHAT HAS BEEN SAID
The Jews, having received a Message--the Torah, would have known not to eat animals that die of themselves, blood, and animals dedicated to other than God. This information/guidance/Al-Quran, is for the masses of non- Jewish humanity in general, and, specifically, to the people to whom no warner had previously come--the people of the Last Prophet. You will notice that, the ayat 53 for example, doesn't mention Jews, hence, the information in that ayat is for non-Jewish humanity. Regardless, if the pig was haram, either in part or whole, then in ayat 6146 Allah misspoke, because in that ayat He makes haram to Jew animals with claws and pigs don't have claws, hence, the pig could not have been haram to them or those who come after them.
AND WE FIND NO CONTRADICTION IN WORDS OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY the LORD OF ABRAHAM, MOSES, RAM, JESUS, MUHAMMAD, MINE AND YOURS
.Who is Ram?? Where is this individual mentioned in Al-Quran? Anyway, you are correct, there are no contradictions in Allah's Words. The contradictions are in your words which you then assign to Allah. Tell me...was the pig haram for Abraham? If so, please post the ayat where Allah states that, thanks.
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I on occasion smoke weed.
LOL!!x10!! THIS EXPLAINS...EVERYTHING! lol lol lol
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PEACE, ALI OMAR,
6.145 says ?lahma khinzeerin fa-innahu rijsun?
If ?khinzeerin? here means pig then the verse says that pig is not allowed because it is foul. I do not think God is lying, so the pig?s meat must be worse than any other meat, and therefore forbidden.
To me foul means it is bad in some way, and if it concerns food, then the food that is bad must have some negative effect on the human body. And if one type of food is singled out, then this food must be worse than any other food. Otherwise, why specifically mention that particular food?
As there is no proof what so ever, that people eating pork is worse off than people eating other meat, rather the opposite, there is something wrong in this picture. It does not make sense.Of course it makes no sense and that is why Marie, for example, abandoned this silly line of thought. Anyway, nothing is wrong with your Allah given common sense/logic...at least on this topic anyway
Peace.