who is a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you KGB,
Take your time, there is no rush on our peaceful discussion D
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Peace be upon you,
All of us are divine, we all have the "ruh" within us. The problem is that most of us identify with the animal side of us rather than the divine side.
If someone delivers truth to us, we follow it, thats all D
Simple D
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Salaamun alaikum guys,
I just can't resist to jump in into this discussion even I intended not to say anything about Prophethood and Messangership until I finish the whole message.
I am still in my data collection process and have only looked into Sura 3 and Sura 4 of Qur'an which clearly in agreement with what JM is saying.There's no point in rushing. As Kyle said, a peaceful discussion has no rush.
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him. He said, Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant? They said, We affirm. He said, Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.This is the messenger I was mentioning before, KGB. The personality inside all of us. His personality confirms that which is with the Prophets.
I believe that al-quraan is the detailling of al-kitaab (god's system) and unless it disappears from the earth, there will no more such books.
What is the message of these Messangers? Khalifah, Mirza Ghulam, Ahmad, Shareef, and then there are Imams Aga Khan, Syedna Buhran un din and many more who have contributed in the division of Muslims for material gains. I don't see any benefit except further dividing muslims into smaller groups.
Brother, its not about division of muslims but the division of humankind. The essence of humankind is one nation but differences arose between them (2/213). So we need to look towards unity of humankind itself.
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Peace be upon you Kyle,
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
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Salaam Alleikum Kyle
I read your post very carefully understand what you are saying. I sure am not at the intelleuctal level as you are with understanding the Message. I keep praying Rab e Zidni Ilmun which is part of your signature and maybe someday I have your level of understanding until that time Kitab to me is book i.e. Qur'an and Turat, Zubur Injeel.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
You too are above my intellecutal level. I will continue to look into Qur'an regarding Messangership and Prophethood. You reply sure is very interesting.
Hey he is only 5" 2 inch high!!!
Shorter than me!!! -)Regards,
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Salaamun alaikum,
KGB You too are above my intellecutal level. I will continue to look into Qur'an regarding Messangership and Prophethood. You reply sure is very interesting.
You're overestimating me again. 'Intellectual level' is a relative thing. Kyle and I have been doing this for quite some time now, so its nothing to do with intellectual level. Kyle was smart enough to dismiss Mecca long before I even contemplated the possibility so these things also come at relatively different speeds for various people. I admire your open-mindedness and honesty though. Like I say, there some who come here to impress , vent frustrations etc but you're not one of them. Study away please and please share with us what you find.
LTHey he is only 5" 2 inch high!!!
Shorter than me!!!You need to add a foot to that, man. Doesn't increase my intellectual level any though but it does decrease my chances of sitting comfortably in a bus.
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Peace be upon you MQ, KGB, and all,
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The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.I read it as "the scorching full moon is when the reading is sent down". Yes, the book called "Al Quraan" can be described with that word "quran"(reading), but a deeper meaning is implied, it is the witnessing of the Laws of the universe.
The moon has a great effect on the earth, and we are humans (humus+man= earth man). Anyone with toothaches or other pains knows the effect the moon has on the body and the mental hospitals can verify the effect the moon has on the mental condition, thats why they are calle LUNAtics. The full moon is the time when our Nafs is most open, most receptive, this is the time when we understand things the best. The nighttime is the best daily and the full moon monthly, everything runs according to a cycle.
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The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
I hope we can continue this conversation on another thread, I think we are close to an understanding, but I need to clarify what you are saying so I can formulate a meaningful response. But to end this particlular response, any thing that is witnessed/read and verified as true(not contradictory to verification) fits the description of "quran".
My studies have led me to conclude so far that this reading that has been titled "QURAN" is truth. I cannot explain all verses yet so I cannot say 100%. But it is a guide , pointing us to the true goal, so it does not matter if I have 100% trust yet, what matters is that I am witnessing the Universal Law of the God and correcting my behavior that I might enjoy PEACE constantly by going with the flow, not against it.
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Hi guys,
The messenger of God is one who brings God's message. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif It can be no one else.
What do u mean by God's message?
a messenger should be under 'wahi' from Allah.
There's nowhere in al-quraan where it says ar-rasool brings a new book. Ar-rasool are sent by Allah with specific functions in mind (3/164, 59/7, 48/2What kind of specific functions?
Everyone can be a messenger.
But no everyone can be a messenger of God
Muhammad was a messenger of God because he took the message from God (by wahi), and he conveyed it to the humankind.- Is the quran the last word of God ?
- Can anyone receive wahi from God after Muhammad ?
If we answer YES to the first question, and NO to the second, then noone today can claim to the a messenger of God.
But first, we should have to define what wahi is.
only God has the knowledge to say "this one is my messenger".
If we assume the quran is His last word, then as a consequence, there will be no more messenger of God after Muhammad.I am not against the fact that some people behave as "walking quran" (we should all try to behave like this), and become leaders of the ummah... But I would not agree that these people would be called, or would called themselves, messenger of God.
Completely agree
When this human passes this KNOWING(objective), not belief(subjective) to others, this is the God's messenger.
But "messenger" is not a title, it is an action of a human being. If the human is not delivering the message either verbally or by example, then this description does not apply.
A messenger is one who delivers a message. A messenger of the God takes the TRUTH and delivers it.
There is no statement whatsoever given for us to assume there are no more prophets and messengers, these are onging DESCRIPTIONS and each of us has this potential. SEAL of the prophets IN NO WAY means LAST Prophet.
The God gives signs(ayat), but others expect messengers to get some magical book, or some super powers to heal the blind and crippled, or some numerical miracle, etc.
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth.
Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
To be clear, I have not give ANYONE the title of messenger, only those who speak TRUTH are messengers ONLY AT THE TIME THEY ARE GIVING TRUTH, otherwise the true messenger remains within man waiting to be uncovered.do u mean wisdom makes one a messenger of God? And Quran is an outcome of Man's wisdom?
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),?Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him.? He said, ?Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant?? They said, ?We affirm.? He said, ?Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.?
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
.Agree with u
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well, Jaxal,
just asked becoz there are/were some who believe God's message doesnt necessarily mean the book club.
Anyways, i completely agree with ur belief on this one.Ofcourse, God is the source of all wisdom, goodness, knowledge etc... but i dont think posessing any of that necessarily makes man a messenger of God. It will make an ideal human being which should be, what we need to be working for and not messengerhood.
And as for messengers, I think God decides on who he wants as a messenger to convey His message to the people on earth.
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Peace be upon you Bahman,
I forgot I put that there. I do aspire to always deliver truth, but I will change that title so that no one gets the wrong idea. Thanks D
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Peace be upon you PeacefulMuslim,
do u mean wisdom makes one a messenger of God?
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
And Quran is an outcome of Man's wisdom?
I do realize that people have titled this book as "QURAN", but "quran" is only that which is read, which includes all books and the universe itself. When contemplating the laws of life you are reading "quran".
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
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hi idolfree1,
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all aboutSo to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all about
idolfree1 wroteKnowledge of anything at all.
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
I was not a witness, but when guidance comes to a human that is not teh product of another human(outside), then it comes from intuition(inside).
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
Lets go back to the word KNOWLEDGE, it means that something is KNOWN(therefore can be proven). When someone recieves knowledge from within, that is prophecy, when one spreads that knowledge, that is messengership.