who is a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you MQ, KGB, and all,
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The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth. Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.Dude, the Quran says 'the month of ramadhan is which is SENT DOWN al-quraan...' (2/185)
This doesn't mean you're wrong with the second part. Allah inspires man with al-haqq too. He simply finds clarification from al-quraan.I read it as "the scorching full moon is when the reading is sent down". Yes, the book called "Al Quraan" can be described with that word "quran"(reading), but a deeper meaning is implied, it is the witnessing of the Laws of the universe.
The moon has a great effect on the earth, and we are humans (humus+man= earth man). Anyone with toothaches or other pains knows the effect the moon has on the body and the mental hospitals can verify the effect the moon has on the mental condition, thats why they are calle LUNAtics. The full moon is the time when our Nafs is most open, most receptive, this is the time when we understand things the best. The nighttime is the best daily and the full moon monthly, everything runs according to a cycle.
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The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).I'd use the word 'declared' as opposed to 'read' because 'iqra bismi rabbika' is more suited to be translated as 'declare in the name of ur lord'.
So anything declared is a 'quraan' (10/15 confirms this) but Al-quraan is the declaration which God authenticates as from Him. This is why even the word 'hadha'/this has after it the word 'AL-quraan' (see 10/37).
I hope we can continue this conversation on another thread, I think we are close to an understanding, but I need to clarify what you are saying so I can formulate a meaningful response. But to end this particlular response, any thing that is witnessed/read and verified as true(not contradictory to verification) fits the description of "quran".
My studies have led me to conclude so far that this reading that has been titled "QURAN" is truth. I cannot explain all verses yet so I cannot say 100%. But it is a guide , pointing us to the true goal, so it does not matter if I have 100% trust yet, what matters is that I am witnessing the Universal Law of the God and correcting my behavior that I might enjoy PEACE constantly by going with the flow, not against it.
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Hi guys,
The messenger of God is one who brings God's message. http//www.geocities.com/bigjaxal/s1.gif It can be no one else.
What do u mean by God's message?
a messenger should be under 'wahi' from Allah.
There's nowhere in al-quraan where it says ar-rasool brings a new book. Ar-rasool are sent by Allah with specific functions in mind (3/164, 59/7, 48/2What kind of specific functions?
Everyone can be a messenger.
But no everyone can be a messenger of God
Muhammad was a messenger of God because he took the message from God (by wahi), and he conveyed it to the humankind.- Is the quran the last word of God ?
- Can anyone receive wahi from God after Muhammad ?
If we answer YES to the first question, and NO to the second, then noone today can claim to the a messenger of God.
But first, we should have to define what wahi is.
only God has the knowledge to say "this one is my messenger".
If we assume the quran is His last word, then as a consequence, there will be no more messenger of God after Muhammad.I am not against the fact that some people behave as "walking quran" (we should all try to behave like this), and become leaders of the ummah... But I would not agree that these people would be called, or would called themselves, messenger of God.
Completely agree
When this human passes this KNOWING(objective), not belief(subjective) to others, this is the God's messenger.
But "messenger" is not a title, it is an action of a human being. If the human is not delivering the message either verbally or by example, then this description does not apply.
A messenger is one who delivers a message. A messenger of the God takes the TRUTH and delivers it.
There is no statement whatsoever given for us to assume there are no more prophets and messengers, these are onging DESCRIPTIONS and each of us has this potential. SEAL of the prophets IN NO WAY means LAST Prophet.
The God gives signs(ayat), but others expect messengers to get some magical book, or some super powers to heal the blind and crippled, or some numerical miracle, etc.
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
The God did not send down the book called "Koran", the God inspires man with the truth.
Man then writes it down as a form of pasing the message.
The God reveals universal law(al kitaab) to any who wishes to know the correct path and strives for such knowledge. Anything that is read is described as "quran" (notice the lower case).
To be clear, I have not give ANYONE the title of messenger, only those who speak TRUTH are messengers ONLY AT THE TIME THEY ARE GIVING TRUTH, otherwise the true messenger remains within man waiting to be uncovered.do u mean wisdom makes one a messenger of God? And Quran is an outcome of Man's wisdom?
381 And when Allah took the covenant of the Prophets (saying),?Certainly, whatever I have given you of the Book and the wisdom, then there comes to you a Messenger confirming that which is with you, you must believe in him and support him.? He said, ?Do you affirm and take on that (condition) My Covenant?? They said, ?We affirm.? He said, ?Then bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses.?
The question is will there be more Books (Al Kitab) after the completion of Qur'an. I believe there will be no revelation after Qur'an reference is 5101.
.Agree with u
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well, Jaxal,
just asked becoz there are/were some who believe God's message doesnt necessarily mean the book club.
Anyways, i completely agree with ur belief on this one.Ofcourse, God is the source of all wisdom, goodness, knowledge etc... but i dont think posessing any of that necessarily makes man a messenger of God. It will make an ideal human being which should be, what we need to be working for and not messengerhood.
And as for messengers, I think God decides on who he wants as a messenger to convey His message to the people on earth.
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Peace be upon you Bahman,
I forgot I put that there. I do aspire to always deliver truth, but I will change that title so that no one gets the wrong idea. Thanks D
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Peace be upon you PeacefulMuslim,
do u mean wisdom makes one a messenger of God?
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
And Quran is an outcome of Man's wisdom?
I do realize that people have titled this book as "QURAN", but "quran" is only that which is read, which includes all books and the universe itself. When contemplating the laws of life you are reading "quran".
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
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hi idolfree1,
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all aboutSo to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all about
idolfree1 wroteKnowledge of anything at all.
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
I was not a witness, but when guidance comes to a human that is not teh product of another human(outside), then it comes from intuition(inside).
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
Lets go back to the word KNOWLEDGE, it means that something is KNOWN(therefore can be proven). When someone recieves knowledge from within, that is prophecy, when one spreads that knowledge, that is messengership.
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Hi Idolfree 1,
this concept of 'possessing & conveying knowledge of any kind' can be highly confusing coz like i said, knowledge can be anything
and knowledge, i'd say is a blessing from God which we attain, when we seek/strive for .
knoledge of life and its essence
knowlege of science
knowledge of maths
knolege of space
knowledge of astronomy
knowlege of ITmessengership is something much more serious! Messengers convery words of God! they are not intuitions.
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
this concept of 'possessing & conveying knowledge of any kind' can be highly confusing coz like i said, knowledge can be anything
Yes, knowledge involves the WHOLE, and that is the essense of ONENESS, there is nothing apart from the God. This is where the word "Holy" comes from. We are to be WHOLEISTIC in our approach.
and knowledge, i'd say is a blessing from God which we attain, when we seek/strive for .
knoledge of life and its essence
knowlege of science
knowledge of maths
knolege of space
knowledge of astronomy
knowlege of ITIs the God not a part of life, science, math, space, astronomy, etc?
messengership is something much more serious! Messengers convery words of God! they are not intuitions.
Intuition is learning from within as oppossed to outside form a teacher or book, etc. The God reveals Truth to Its servants WITHIN.
Is not the God addressing LIFE?
Is not the God addressing science?
Is not the God addressing astronomy?etc?
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Hi Idolfree1,
knowledge involves the WHOLE, and that is the essense of ONENESS, there is nothing apart from the God. This is where the word "Holy" comes from. We are to be WHOLEISTIC in our approach.
Is the God not a part of life, science, math, space, astronomy, etc?
Intuition is learning from within as oppossed to outside form a teacher or book, etc. The God reveals Truth to Its servants WITHIN.
Is not the God addressing LIFE?
Is not the God addressing science?
Is not the God addressing astronomy?etc?
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people. If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people. -
Messengers are those who Allah chooses and endows upon them certain signs. for the mankind to ascertain; they clarify and settle down most disputes that the people have engaged in with reference to the Quran through the wisdom of Allah. They believe not the worldly ways and lead not the life based on such beliefs. Allah will remain their Protector and Helper until they ( the rasuls ) shall be raised up, having completed their stint in the world.
Allah says it is easy for one to understand if the chosen one is rasul or not, if only he has the wisdom of The Book. Many disclaimed in the past the status of messengership of the chosen ones but they are the people astray having no faith in the Book.
The Best sign of a messenger is the practical quality of his life based on the principles of the Book, for, he aught not to preach what he do not practise.
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Peace,
The Best sign of a messenger is the practical quality of his life based on the principles of the Book, for, he aught not to preach what he do not practise.
I agree with you on this. It is very important that people recognize the rasool not only by way of preaching, teaching, and helping the people towards betterment, but also by his own implementation of the quranic criteria.
Joe
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.
well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.
If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people.Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
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Hi Idolfree1,
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.
and can u eloborate what kind of knowledge should one recieve to be a messenger.
and yeah, are all scientists messengers of God? coz they can prove science?)well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.
i think u misunderstood my statement. by God's words, i meant God adressing mankind directly. if u see Quran, Allah is adressing mankind or adressing the prophet.
If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people.Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
Messengers of God are not necessarily superheroes from middle east.
they are normal human beings but have been choosen by Allah to convey His message.
we can live a good life and convey message of goodness/righteousness around us, but that wont make us messengers of God. -
Peace be upon you Peaeful Muslim,
Idolfree1
No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.PM
and can u eloborate what kind of knowledge should one recieve to be a messenger.
and yeah, are all scientists messengers of God? coz they can prove science?ANY knowledge, ANYTHING that can be proven as true. There is NOTHING outside the realm of the God. An example of some knowledge is how the good response is not equal to the bad response. We can see the PROOF of this knowledge by looking at the forum. We can see how the bad responses create an avalanche of negativity.
That is a small example.
Yes, a true scientist is a messenger when he delivers truth, ONLY at the time of delivery. Messenger is a description of the person performing that act. Not title for a human being.
idolfree1 wrote
well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'PM
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.IF
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.i think u misunderstood my statement. by God's words, i meant God adressing mankind directly. if u see Quran, Allah is addressing mankind or adressing the prophet.
Well, I must disagree with your understanding. The God's words are EVERYTHING in the Universe. The God says "be" and it becomes, everything is the God's word! D Remember, the God says in this reading that "we will show YOU the signs in the horizons and within our spirits/minds(nafs) until you know it is the truth". So the God's words are the entire Universe. Our job is to discover the laws, which is that which is proveable.
Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
Messengers of God are not necessarily superheroes from middle east.
they are normal human beings but have been choosen by Allah to convey His message.
we can live a good life and convey message of goodness/righteousness around us, but that wont make us messengers of God.You better make sure. The God says that YOU are one of the messengers. Take away the shackles of the mind that we all have been taught. You have to make this message apply. We have to get out of this mindset that messenegrs are from middle east from the past. NO, we are alive and well, all of us, and we must step up to the plate. Deliver the truth which is proveable. Dont wait for some being to fly from out of the sky to stand on a mountaintop and say "do this, dont do that" we have the LAW right in front of out faces, deliver it. D