who is a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you Bahman,
I forgot I put that there. I do aspire to always deliver truth, but I will change that title so that no one gets the wrong idea. Thanks D
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Peace be upon you PeacefulMuslim,
do u mean wisdom makes one a messenger of God?
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
And Quran is an outcome of Man's wisdom?
I do realize that people have titled this book as "QURAN", but "quran" is only that which is read, which includes all books and the universe itself. When contemplating the laws of life you are reading "quran".
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
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hi idolfree1,
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.
knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all aboutSo to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
idolfree1 wrote
I mean KNOWLDGE (knowing rather than believing) gives you the resources to be a messenger, only when you are actually delivering the message (truth) can you be described as messenger.knowledge of?
if u say knowledge of life and its essence, thats what wisdom is all about
idolfree1 wroteKnowledge of anything at all.
So to answer your question, all truth is from the God, so assuming that his book contains 100% truth, then it is from the God's Knowledge recieved by a human being through intuition.
Quran was recievd by intuition?
I was not a witness, but when guidance comes to a human that is not teh product of another human(outside), then it comes from intuition(inside).
and, i am not sure if i understand u right, but are u saying wisdom, since its from God too and hence a wise person conveying wisdom becomes a messenger of God?
Lets go back to the word KNOWLEDGE, it means that something is KNOWN(therefore can be proven). When someone recieves knowledge from within, that is prophecy, when one spreads that knowledge, that is messengership.
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Hi Idolfree 1,
this concept of 'possessing & conveying knowledge of any kind' can be highly confusing coz like i said, knowledge can be anything
and knowledge, i'd say is a blessing from God which we attain, when we seek/strive for .
knoledge of life and its essence
knowlege of science
knowledge of maths
knolege of space
knowledge of astronomy
knowlege of ITmessengership is something much more serious! Messengers convery words of God! they are not intuitions.
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
this concept of 'possessing & conveying knowledge of any kind' can be highly confusing coz like i said, knowledge can be anything
Yes, knowledge involves the WHOLE, and that is the essense of ONENESS, there is nothing apart from the God. This is where the word "Holy" comes from. We are to be WHOLEISTIC in our approach.
and knowledge, i'd say is a blessing from God which we attain, when we seek/strive for .
knoledge of life and its essence
knowlege of science
knowledge of maths
knolege of space
knowledge of astronomy
knowlege of ITIs the God not a part of life, science, math, space, astronomy, etc?
messengership is something much more serious! Messengers convery words of God! they are not intuitions.
Intuition is learning from within as oppossed to outside form a teacher or book, etc. The God reveals Truth to Its servants WITHIN.
Is not the God addressing LIFE?
Is not the God addressing science?
Is not the God addressing astronomy?etc?
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Hi Idolfree1,
knowledge involves the WHOLE, and that is the essense of ONENESS, there is nothing apart from the God. This is where the word "Holy" comes from. We are to be WHOLEISTIC in our approach.
Is the God not a part of life, science, math, space, astronomy, etc?
Intuition is learning from within as oppossed to outside form a teacher or book, etc. The God reveals Truth to Its servants WITHIN.
Is not the God addressing LIFE?
Is not the God addressing science?
Is not the God addressing astronomy?etc?
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people. If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people. -
Messengers are those who Allah chooses and endows upon them certain signs. for the mankind to ascertain; they clarify and settle down most disputes that the people have engaged in with reference to the Quran through the wisdom of Allah. They believe not the worldly ways and lead not the life based on such beliefs. Allah will remain their Protector and Helper until they ( the rasuls ) shall be raised up, having completed their stint in the world.
Allah says it is easy for one to understand if the chosen one is rasul or not, if only he has the wisdom of The Book. Many disclaimed in the past the status of messengership of the chosen ones but they are the people astray having no faith in the Book.
The Best sign of a messenger is the practical quality of his life based on the principles of the Book, for, he aught not to preach what he do not practise.
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Peace,
The Best sign of a messenger is the practical quality of his life based on the principles of the Book, for, he aught not to preach what he do not practise.
I agree with you on this. It is very important that people recognize the rasool not only by way of preaching, teaching, and helping the people towards betterment, but also by his own implementation of the quranic criteria.
Joe
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.
well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.
If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people.Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
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Hi Idolfree1,
u r very right. all knowledge is from God. all wisdom is from God. all forms of goodness is from God. and recieving them from God makes us good human beings and not messengers of God.
According to ur definition, all human beings are messengers of God.No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.
and can u eloborate what kind of knowledge should one recieve to be a messenger.
and yeah, are all scientists messengers of God? coz they can prove science?)well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.
i think u misunderstood my statement. by God's words, i meant God adressing mankind directly. if u see Quran, Allah is adressing mankind or adressing the prophet.
If u see Quran,God is seen addressing the people and the prophet.
Thus a messenger is acting for God. The purpose of the messenger is to convey God's message. the message has nothing to do with the messenger. he just carries and conveys it to the people.Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
Messengers of God are not necessarily superheroes from middle east.
they are normal human beings but have been choosen by Allah to convey His message.
we can live a good life and convey message of goodness/righteousness around us, but that wont make us messengers of God. -
Peace be upon you Peaeful Muslim,
Idolfree1
No, you have to recieve KNOWLEDGE first, MOST people only guess. KNOWLEDGE can be proven, guessing requires no proof.PM
and can u eloborate what kind of knowledge should one recieve to be a messenger.
and yeah, are all scientists messengers of God? coz they can prove science?ANY knowledge, ANYTHING that can be proven as true. There is NOTHING outside the realm of the God. An example of some knowledge is how the good response is not equal to the bad response. We can see the PROOF of this knowledge by looking at the forum. We can see how the bad responses create an avalanche of negativity.
That is a small example.
Yes, a true scientist is a messenger when he delivers truth, ONLY at the time of delivery. Messenger is a description of the person performing that act. Not title for a human being.
idolfree1 wrote
well, propably the confusion here is becoz we differ in our definitions of a 'messenger of God'PM
my definition would be-- a messenger is one who conveys God's words to His people.IF
Same as mine. God's words are TRUTH, proveable knowledge.i think u misunderstood my statement. by God's words, i meant God adressing mankind directly. if u see Quran, Allah is addressing mankind or adressing the prophet.
Well, I must disagree with your understanding. The God's words are EVERYTHING in the Universe. The God says "be" and it becomes, everything is the God's word! D Remember, the God says in this reading that "we will show YOU the signs in the horizons and within our spirits/minds(nafs) until you know it is the truth". So the God's words are the entire Universe. Our job is to discover the laws, which is that which is proveable.
Yes, and we ALL should be conveying the God's message. Most of us are following the example of Jonah, running from the duty. Or are unaware of how they are messengers becuase we have been taught that messengers are some superheroes from Middle East only, from the past only.
Messengers of God are not necessarily superheroes from middle east.
they are normal human beings but have been choosen by Allah to convey His message.
we can live a good life and convey message of goodness/righteousness around us, but that wont make us messengers of God.You better make sure. The God says that YOU are one of the messengers. Take away the shackles of the mind that we all have been taught. You have to make this message apply. We have to get out of this mindset that messenegrs are from middle east from the past. NO, we are alive and well, all of us, and we must step up to the plate. Deliver the truth which is proveable. Dont wait for some being to fly from out of the sky to stand on a mountaintop and say "do this, dont do that" we have the LAW right in front of out faces, deliver it. D
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Peace idolfree1
But "messenger" is not a title, it is an action of a human being. If the human is not delivering the message either verbally or by example, then this description does not apply.
Yes, this is also what I stated. A messenger is one who delivers a message. A messenger of the God takes the TRUTH and delivers it.
Its not about giving someone a TITLE, its about the information itself. When someone speaks TRUTH they are a messenger, any other time, they are not a messenger. Further, one does not have to pick between people, anyone can be a messenger, you probably recieve the message all day long and not realize it. For example, if you are a smoker and 4 people during the course of your day tell you that smoking is bad for your health and explian OBJECTIVELY exactly how it effects your vehicle(body), then you have just beenvisited by 4 messengers.
To be clear, I have not give ANYONE the title of messenger, only those who speak TRUTH are messengers ONLY AT THE TIME THEY ARE GIVING TRUTH, otherwise the true messenger remains within man waiting to be uncovered.
Yes, a true scientist is a messenger when he delivers truth, ONLY at the time of delivery. Messenger is a description of the person performing that act. Not title for a human being.
Could you quote a verse of the quran about an idolater (or any non-muslim person) said to be a messenger because at some time he has told something true ?
So, how can I be sure I am receiving inspiration from God ?
Excellent question!! This is the key to it all. The God explains that if there is something from "Him", that it can be VERIFIED! So what yuo do is take the information and TEST IT! If it is Truth, it will work everytime, if not it is not Truth.
If someone claim that pork is halal, how should I verify it ? What is the criterion ?
- Can we not conclude from this verse that a messenger has to be inspired by God ?
Yes, a messeger of the God is one who speaks Truth, we must first recieve the truth before we can deliver it. The people should not be suprised that the God informs those who strive with the correct understanding of things. The God is near and answers the call.
Lets go back to the word KNOWLEDGE, it means that something is KNOWN(therefore can be proven). When someone recieves knowledge from within, that is prophecy, when one spreads that knowledge, that is messengership.
So, a messenger is by definition a prophet , right ?
Peace
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Peace mquran,
Is it a matter of wonderment to men that We have sent Our inspiration to a man from among themselves?- that he should warn mankind (of their danger), and give the good news to the Believers that they have before their Lord the lofty rank of truth. (But) say the Unbelievers "This is indeed an evident sorcerer!" (10/2)
So yes, a messenger should be under 'wahi' from Allah.
There's nowhere in al-quraan where it says ar-rasool brings a new book. Ar-rasool are sent by Allah with specific functions in mind (3/164, 59/7, 48/2
So, you think
- There can be other messengers after Muhammad
- A messenger is under wahi from God
We know that God has transmitted to Muhammad the quran (a new book) By wahi,.
So, why would another messenger who would come after Muhammad not bring a new book (if he is under wahi) ?
What would this wahi from God bring him ?Take a look at 3/84 for a sec please
Qul Aamaana billahi wa maa UNZILA ALAINA....
Say We believe in Allah and in what is revealed ON US....This is a command from al-quraan. Therefore, if we recieve inzal/revelation from Allah, we are to believe in it.
How can someone know he is receiving revelations from God ?
I and PB are claiming that we are messengers of God.
So, we are both able to receive revelations from God.I say that the flesh of swine is haram, and OB says it is hallal.
We both say we have got this information by inspiration from God.How would you choose between us ?
Maybe you are going to answer "the good opinion is the one who can be backed up the quran".
Hehe, you know it. Al-quraan is a book which tells you even how to read it. With Priest's discourse about the swine, it was easy to see the non-quranic assumptions he made.
OK, you will check in the quran.
But how did people living at the times of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, or Abraham do (without the quran) to know they were messengers of God ?If you told me that your revelation supercedes al-quraan, I'd have to ask you to produce something like al-quraan. A coherent discourse to guide humanity. In fact, this has been done before. Have you heard of Joseph Smith, founder of Mormonism? He claimed to have recieved revelation as well. Check out his 'book of mormonism', if you like.
Bahaullah, MGA also left texts but once again, you will find them unable to produce anything like al-quraan.
Why do you think the book of mormonism is not a coherent discourse to guide humanity ?
Could you argue ? What are your criteria ?
Same question about the writings of Bahaullah...
The bahai think it supersedes the quran. Why don't you agree with them ? What are your criteria ?Let's assume you are living at some time before the revelation of the quran.
How would you have judged the teachings of Jesus, Mo?se, Abraham, and so on... ?
How would you have judged the teachings of Zarathushtra, Bouddha, and so on... ?Let's assume someone (say idolfree) come to us, claims he is a messenger, and expose a discourse to guide humanity better the the quran (which supersedes it). Will you follow him and deem the quran as outdated ?
In order to do that, you must live according the book, teach the book and wisdom and facilitate growth.
What is concretely "the book" ?
Peace
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So, you think
- There can be other messengers after Muhammad
- A messenger is under wahi from God
This is my belief, correct.
We know that God has transmitted to Muhammad the quran (a new book) By wahi
We can only know this by a logical deduction as follows
- al-quraan exists in the world
- al-quraan comes from Allah to a messenger
- the messenger must have recieved al-quraan at a point in time before us.
I don't think the correct word is 'wahi' but 'inzaal'.
So, why would another messenger who would come after Muhammad not bring a new book (if he is under wahi) ?
What would this wahi from God bring him ?Why would he need to bring a new book if one already exists? Wahi doesn't refer to recieving a 'new' book. The concept of a 'new book' doesn't exist in al-quraan.
How can someone know he is receiving revelations from God ?
42/51-52 It is not fitting for a man that God should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with God's permission, what God wills for He is Most High, Most Wise And thus have We, by Our Command, sent inspiration to thee thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,-
So God's inspiration brings about faith, light and guidance.
OK, you will check in the quran.
But how did people living at the times of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, or Abraham do (without the quran) to know they were messengers of God ?I don't know because I live in a time where a book exists. Al-quraan doesn't tell me of the process of a book 'replacement' process.
Why do you think the book of mormonism is not a coherent discourse to guide humanity ?
Could you argue ? What are your criteria ?
Same question about the writings of Bahaullah...
The bahai think it supersedes the quran. Why don't you agree with them ? What are your criteria ?My criteria is based upon my perception of the human being. I believe humans are a certain way in the world and I believe al-quraan is the best discourse to evolutionise them. Of course this is debatable as no one else can share my exact perception as no one can share anyone elses.
Let's assume you are living at some time before the revelation of the quran.
How would you have judged the teachings of Jesus, Mo?se, Abraham, and so on... ?
How would you have judged the teachings of Zarathushtra, Bouddha, and so on... ?I don't know because I live in a time where a book exists.
Let's assume someone (say idolfree) come to us, claims he is a messenger, and expose a discourse to guide humanity better the the quran (which supersedes it). Will you follow him and deem the quran as outdated ?
It depends if he can supercede al-quraan or not.
What is concretely "the book" ?
The book is God's writ for the human being. It contains the laws by which the human being can evolve and transcend decline and death.
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Peace all. Anyone who delivers a message of truth is a messenger(deliverer) or nabi.(informer.) The quran is one book or version about truth,there were others before(torah,bible,bhagvad gita etc..) and there will be others after as well.(maybe baihullahs book,science,new knowledge etc..) The previous and future books do not necessarily make the quran obselete,they just reiterate what was said earlier or make new discoveries/further clarifications. Revelation is an ongoing process.
Peace all.