The Fast of Ramadan: The only one which is universal!
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PS The only solar implication in all this, which is amazing actually is the Metonic cycle of 19 years. 19! 19! 19! 19!
THAT is when the Earth-Sun-Moon reset to an original position. The Sun-Earth position is half the story.
What compounds the amazing counts is that "al-shams" alone in that form occurs in the Koran 19 times! Altogether there are 33 mentions of 'shams' and it so happens that the surface of the sun as a whole ie. equator + pole spins a whole revolution in 33 days!
Also the moon defines different types of 'month'. There is the 'synodic' month which is the ~29.5 day cycle from full moon to full moon. This is sometimes 29 and sometimes 30 days - so it is not absolutely rock solid.
Then there is the actual length of time for the moon to orbit the earth once. This period is actually 27 days. This is known as the 'tropical' month. The time it takes for the moon to appear at the same point against the star background every month ie. lunar equinox to lunar equinox. It is at a slightly earlier phase each time ie. 2 days short of the same phase because the earth is orbiting the sun at the same time and the relation between the sun and moon is what determines the phase.
So it takes an extra two days for the moon's phase to be the same whereas the moon has already completed it's orbit and it is thus at a different point in the sky.
Now when you count the total number of 'qamar' it amounts to 27 times.
Coincidence?
It's interesting to watch the moon every night against the star background - try it and you'll see that each night it is at a regular distance away from its previous position.
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Peace,
Err i haven't. You should give up your baseless argument about the Restricted months being about hunting and OOO what great wisdom it is,
Read carefully 51-2 and you will see that hunting is clearly mentioned as restricted with respect to the restricted "shahr". See also 594-96. Again, all you are demonstrating is your inability to read properly.
yet you could barely designate which months are stated to be restricted, nor do u offer a way to count the months to make them 30 days.
The word "shahr" doesn't mean "months", it means "full-moon" and I did clearly designate which ones are restricted in this article, which apparently you did not read
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
And if they are 30 days,
They are not 30 days. You didn't read the article. You are debating against your own imagination. Here is the link again in case you forgot
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
then they wouldn't complete the 365 days (30x12 = 360) needed for a year which still leaves arbitrary judgement on your part to decide which months should have the extra days to adjust.
I agree. The God did not give us 30 day periods. What he gave us as a marker is a clear cosmic phenomena. Read the article and you will know what I am talking about instead of debating against what you imagine I am saying.
Nor do you explain how you would adjust for intercalation.
You failed to read the article where it is clearly explained how 936 provides automatic and accurate intercalation.
Yes of course the occurence of words AYAM is 30 and YAWM is 365, but that still presents the problem above. And if the calendar (something so important) was outlined so subtely, you'd think it was only meant for people in our time to actually understand this. Which to me doesn't make sense.
No, as far as I know, the occurrence of the word AYAM is not 30. I agree with you that those counts are subjective and not meaningful.
HELLO. Did you see me put quotes? Did you see me state verse numbers? No! I was paraphrasing. Of course the ayat precisely is "Inna 3idat al-Ash-hur 3inda Allah ithna 3shr shahra".
This was not paraphrasing. It was a wrong statement.
You're arguing over semantics now. What I said isn't different from what is said there. The number of months is 12 in the sight of God. THAT IS THE POINT. Because then you base your whole interpertation on the word SHAHR referring to MOONS and not specifically MONTHS, in order to make fit your other theory of what Ramadhan is actually referring to. So who's sloppy here?
This is sloppy reading again and this time you can't give the lame excuse of "I was paraphrasing". 936 doesn't say "The number of months is 12 in the sight of God". It says" "Inna 3idat al-shuhur 3inda Allah ithna 3shr shahra", which means "the COUNT of the SHAHR with The God is twelve." There is a difference between "3adad" (number) and "3idat" (count) and The God doesn't use those words haphazardly as you do.
I don't see how I am making contradictory comments, when I am pointing out YOUR contradictions by comments.
a) you say SHAHR is the Moon or a specific phase of the Moon.
b) you point out that God counts 12 SHAHR
c) 12 SHAHR = 12MOON = 1 Lunar year
d) Despite this, you keep pushing a Solar year based on some self-styled month you haven't declared yetIt is simple. If you ALWAYS count 12 full moons in a year, then you will have accurate automatic intercalation. Every three years there will be a year with 13 full-moons. You don't count the 13th moon because we are told to only count 12 so you skip it. This is the simplest mechanism for intercalation that is not prone to any manipulation.
clapclapclap Ad Hominum. Very good. Yes that will shut me up. My argument is flawed because im sloppily reading your super well written article. Good one.
You either were "sloppily reading it" or didn't read it at all. Here is the link again just in case you couldn't see it above
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htm
Ok WOW. Now you're recanting but you're doing it in oooh so sly a way. Luni-solar it is now. Ok. So back to problem 1, if it luni-solar, how do you divide the year into 12 months, using the moon and the sun without adding arbitrary months or days or whatever. If it's so clear, make us a calendar right now that doesn't rely on gregorian count and their established months that are completely arbitrary.
See the article. Do you want the link again? The God is not telling us about man-made calendars. He is telling us about clear cosmic phenomena.
Also 1712 mentions nothing about the SUN being the origin of day/night, other than the Night and Day are in themselves Ayats of God's power. The sun has nothing to do with the alteration of the night and the day!! It's THE EARTH'S SPIN! Which is clearly reffered to in 395. The verb KAWWARA.
If there was no moon, we would still have daylight and night. If there was no sun, it would be all night without daylight no matter how much the earth spins. So the sun does influence daylight and night. This is indisputable and even elementary school students know it so stop wasting everyone's time by arguing about it.
In fact, the night/day alteration spoken of 1712 allows us to count the days between each new/full moon.
Once again, you are sloppily reading 1712, which clearly talks about the count of the YEARS NOT the DAYS.
Can you count the number of months simply by relying on the sun rising and setting?
Yes. Isn't that what everyone does? To paraphrase you "Duh". )
Again, The God doesn't talk about "months". He talks about clear cosmic phenomena that are used for timing.
Duh, plural of Hillel. Crescent. Either way 2189 is again clearly showing that it's the phases of the moon that are the timing mechanisms for THE PEOPLE AND THE HAJJ. Again you're missing the point and twisting God's clear verses.
But then there are actually 24-26 crescents in a solar year and 24 in a lunar year. The time between crescents is about 20 days between waxing and waning crescent. This is not the timing mechanism for the so-called Islamic calendar. In fact, the present so-called "7ajj" starts on the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and not with the waxing crescent. It ends on the 10th, not with the waxing or the waning crescents. So the crescents don't time anything about the present so-called "7ajj" as you suppose and its timing has nothing to do with any crescent. Again, please see the article to see how the crescent can be used to time the "7ajj".
Wow you need a calendar to know when it's time to go to the beach? Ever try stepping outside and checking out the weather? Do poeple really need a calendar on the wall to know that summer/spring/fall/winter are on their way or coming. All we need is to look at the position of the sun and since we already keep track of the sun for prayers, we can tell when the days are getting longer or shorter and know the seasons and the equinox. No need for a calendar.
This is what the solar calendar is based on THE SUN. You are also basing your timing on THE SUN. It is the same.
Muslims have been using a purely lunar calendar for at least 1000 years until european colonization, you're telling me they didn't hunt and plant crops properly because of it? Ridiculous.
No they haven't. The farmers use a solar calendar because they need to plant and harvest crops at specific times of the SOLAR year. We never hear of anyone harvesting crops according to a lunar calendar. This is indisputable. The lunar calendar is completely useless and thus it is used only for the purpose of religious festivals.
If anything, God doesn't want us to follow a natural cycle BECAUSE people have fallen into SHIRK by doing so associating coming seasons and festivals with the sun or the stars because they return to their positions. Your only strong point is the hunting season, which is admirable, but not strong enough.
So according to you The God created a wrong natural cycle that He doesn't want us to follow! I don't think so.
Hunting is the ONLY restriction during the restricted full-moons. So it is the most important thing about the restriction and you are brushing it off.
As for "shirk", I think that attributing something (in this case a manmade lunar or solar calendar or seven day week) without authority is "shirk". Again, this is not about a calendar, but it is about natural cosmic phenomena.
So now you're suggestign we also abolish the week?
You can abolish it or not abolish it. This will not make a difference. The only thing is that you should not claim that The God decreed a seven day week when we know for certain it is completely manmade.
GEE. I wonder why it's called OUSSBOU3, could it be rooted in the number SAB3A?
The word "OUSSBOU3" is NEVER mentioned in the great reading and hence cannot be decreed by The God.
But now let's count shall we? You like to count
No, I don't like to mindlessly count.
The Sabbath was decreed only for those who ended up disputing it. Your Lord is the One who will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding their disputes.
Why don't you translate "sabat" for us? You are obviously ignorant of its meaning as you demonstrate below.
According to the Quran the said abstinences are only for the Jewish people.
This is according to you or whatever else you are reading NOT the great reading. Certainly not 16124.
?Sabbath? is on the seventh day of the week.
The word "sabat" means "rest" NOT "seven". Look it up.
Not only that, but Sabbath occurs 7 times in the Quran. Woot. Point and match.
It seems from your comments that you are one of those mathematically ignorant who believe in mathematical codes in the great reading. Firstly, as far as I know "sbt" in all its forms occurs 9 times. Even if it occurred 7 times, it is meaningless and has nothing to do with the number seven which in Arabic is "saba3a" NOT "sabat". Again, the word "sabat" means "rest" NOT "seven". This is elementary.
Your 365 count for Yawm is indeed the number of days for a full revolution around the sun, but doesn't mean anything or does it refer to a calendar in any shape or form, this is just pointing out an astronomical detail since either way its ~365.25 so needs arbitrary calendars. Whereas counting lunar cycles is much easier and obvious.
It is not my count and I think it is a false count. The word "ywm" and all its derivatives doesn't occur 365 times. Also, as you point out there aren't 365 days in the year, there are 365.25. So even if the count was 365, it is still meaningless.
PS The only solar implication in all this, which is amazing actually is the Metonic cycle of 19 years. 19! 19! 19! 19!
So you are a believer in Code 19. This explains why you can't read properly. You are too obsessed with imaginary hidden mathematical codes in the text and you don't actually read the text.
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Salaam.
May God shows us His straight path in this striving that we are all engaged in. Ya qallabul qulub, thabbit qalbi 3ala dinika ya Rab.
This is obviously leading nowhere because your whole argument is that i haven't read your article and your entire counter is to tell me "here's the link, go read the article", which i have. And found it riddled with holes and that is what I'm bringing to your attention. What makes your view so authoratative anyway, that you so easily pretend to brush me off? I wasn't alone in dissecting your article, not that you care. Good for you.
All this comes down to ONE thing ayman. Can you make us a proper calendar that everyone can follow based on the The Quran alone? Without all the man-made extras that have already been used? WIth the 12 full moons, plus the "uncounted" 13th? cough it up! I wanna live by God's Will, so reveal it.
As for the "so-called" 7ajj, (i love your belittling attiude, ka2ano nizzil 3alek el wa7i mashallah!), where does it say anything about a waxing crescent? I'm curious. Maybe i missed that part.
And stop anglicizing it. It's QUR'AN. And not THE READING. Wasn't there an epic of an article about how we should use the names Allah assigned to things? Hmmm must've been the other quranite site. Oops i used the Q word! See everyone can put "secterian" labels on everyone else btw.
I'll respond to your full reply later, i must continue my game of CIV4 right now. They have religions added in. Very interesting.
Salaam!
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All this comes down to ONE thing ayman. Can you make us a proper calendar that everyone can follow based on the The Quran alone? Without all the man-made extras that have already been used? WIth the 12 full moons, plus the "uncounted" 13th? cough it up! I wanna live by God's Will, so reveal it.
Ah, the traditional way is so hard to shake off... always looking for some medium or other. roll -
Dude.. stop hiding behind calling others that disagree with your flawed interpretations as "traditional" or "secterian". For all you know, you're the misguided one and have been led to believe that you're personal whim is the only possible logical explanation. Sheesh.
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Peace,
And stop anglicizing it. It's QUR'AN. And not THE READING. Wasn't there an epic of an article about how we should use the names Allah assigned to things?
The reading or recitation is an accurate translation.
We are communicating in English afterall - and all languages are equally intelligible to the God. You may call upon Him in any language and He will respond.
Remember that you must steer clear of associating anything with the God - and unfortunately it seems that in traditional Islam, Allah is an Arab god who understands only Arabic.
The God is free of all that people associate.
Regards.
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Remember that you must steer clear of associating anything with the God - and unfortunately it seems that in traditional Islam, Allah is an Arab god who understands only Arabic.
shock
ooh right.. the arab conspiracy.. i forgot.. shake head
And among His Signs is the creation of the Heavens and the Earth, and the difference of your languages and colors. Verily, in that are Signs for people of sound knowledge.
(Q al-Rum 3022)You have it in your signature.
There's nothing holy or sacred about Arabic, and translating quran as 'reading' or 'recitation' is perfectly correct. There's no conspiracy - there's just too much ignorance amongst traditionalists to understand their errors.
Peace.
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For all you know, you're the misguided one and have been led to believe that you're personal whim is the only possible logical explanation.
Perhaps. Isn't it a good thing I don't have to worry about being judged by you or any other human for that matter? wink -
Peace,
May God shows us His straight path in this striving that we are all engaged in. Ya qallabul qulub, thabbit qalbi 3ala dinika ya Rab.
The signs of The God are not only in the great reading, they are all around us. If you are sincere then you need to ponder on The God's signs and stop making the baseless argument that it is wrong to use for timing the natural solar cycle that The God created and clearly refers to in the great reading.
This is obviously leading nowhere because your whole argument is that i haven't read your article and your entire counter is to tell me "here's the link, go read the article", which i have.
You are either confused between articles or unable to read properly because you haven't addressed or argued against a single point from the article in the link. Instead, you keep arguing against the count of 365 days and the 19 year Metonic cycle, which are points never made in this article. Those points were made in another article that has major mistakes.
And found it riddled with holes and that is what I'm bringing to your attention.
You didn't bring a single one. I would appreciate it if you show me where there are holes in the article so that I can correct it. Instead of your empty boasting, please be specific and quote the appropriate passage from the article and tell everyone what is wrong with it.
What makes your view so authoratative anyway, that you so easily pretend to brush me off?
One can approach this from three points of views, (1) What the great reading tells us, (2) Scientific, and (3) Historical.
(1) From what the great reading tells us, we can clearly see that the year is solar. When shown 1712, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "3am" is lunar and "sana" is solar or something like this. When you were proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead shifted to the hypocritical rhetorical argument that using the sun for timing is somehow "pagan".
You also made the following argument, which shows your poor knowledge of the Arabic language and more importantly your ineffective approach to understanding the great reading
Kaddara what? Kaddar al qamar! for what? lita3lamou 3adad as-sinin wal 7isab! The moon is clearly what is intended to set time periods, and through that to learn mathematics and counting. Al shamssou dhia2 and that's it! God didn't say "kaddarahUM", it's not plural. It strictly refers to the moon. So where's your sloppy reading? Oh right there!
To see your Arabic mistake, just read 106, which is the immediately next passage. Is "ayat liqawm ya3lamoon" a function of just the last part that came before it ("ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard") or is it a function of everything that came before it ("ikhtilaf allay wa alnahar wa ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard")? Of course, it is a function of everything that came before it NOT just the last part. Now apply the same logic to 105. Moreover, one has to effectively understand the great reading by looking at all the passages and not one in isolation. When 1712 and 105 are read TOGETHER we can clearly see the meaning of 105. Notice that 1712 talks about daylight and night and 105 talks about the light of the sun. Notice that immediately after 105 we hear in 106 about the daylight and the night like in 1712. So those two passages are connected and we must understand them in light of each other.
(2) Scientifically, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "lunar calendars are better at specifying hunting restrictions". When you were again proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead made a false argument that the "restricted months were not about hunting". When shown 51-2, etc. and clearly proven wrong, you again didn't admit your mistake and again resorted to empty rhetoric. You can't be sincerely striving if you can't even admit such manifest errors. I don't think that your game of CIV4 will help you correct such errors.
(3) Historically, even traditionalist sectarians admit that the present day so-called Islamic calendar was invented during the time of Umar I and hence the prophet didn't use this calendar.
So as we can all see, the great reading, science, and history converge and support the understanding presented in the article and demolish your false arguments.
I wasn't alone in dissecting your article, not that you care. Good for you.
I hope that you would dissect it because so far you haven't. Many people have dissected it before, even before it was published on the site. This has helped me greatly and enabled me to improve it. Dissecting the article is a good thing and I do hope you start doing it. The first step is to read it and address specific issues by quoting the relevant passages from the article and telling us why they are wrong.
All this comes down to ONE thing ayman. Can you make us a proper calendar that everyone can follow based on the The Quran alone? Without all the man-made extras that have already been used? WIth the 12 full moons, plus the "uncounted" 13th? cough it up! I wanna live by God's Will, so reveal it.
The God gives us the scorching full-moon ("shahr ramadan") as the marker. This is the first full-moon after the summer solstice. It is also the first restricted full-moon. So you count four full moons starting with the scorching full-moon and you get the timing for the restriction. You count 12 full-moons until the next summer solstice and then you start over. If you get 13 full moons, you skip counting the 13th moon because we are told to only count 12 and this way you get automatic intercalation. It is the simplest and least error prone mechanism. This way, the lunar cycles and the solar cycles are used for timing as indicated in 1712 and 105. So you essentially have lunar "months" while the year is solar and the "calendar" is in sync with the seasons.
As for the "so-called" 7ajj, (i love your belittling attiude, ka2ano nizzil 3alek el wa7i mashallah!), where does it say anything about a waxing crescent? I'm curious. Maybe i missed that part.
2189 talks about the crescents being used as a timing device for the real "7ajj". Your so-called "7ajj" doesn't use the crescents for anything. It starts on an arbitrary day, the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and ends on the 10th. Thus, its timing has nothing to do with the crescent.
And stop anglicizing it. It's QUR'AN. And not THE READING. Wasn't there an epic of an article about how we should use the names Allah assigned to things? Hmmm must've been the other quranite site. Oops i used the Q word! See everyone can put "secterian" labels on everyone else btw.
You are not making any sense. As usual, you seem to have a preconception and you are arguing against it instead of against what is presented here. Do you even know what the word "quran" means? If so, please tell us what it means.
I'll respond to your full reply later, i must continue my game of CIV4 right now. They have religions added in. Very interesting.
I look forward to you giving a productive reply to the article. To be productive, I suggest that you read it first, do your research to verify what is said in it, and then quote the passages that you think are flawed and highlight what is wrong with them. This would be more helpful.
Peace on who followed the guidance,
Ayman
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Ok i rewrote a few things.
You are either confused between articles or unable to read properly because you haven't addressed or argued against a single point from the article in the link. Instead, you keep arguing against the count of 365 days and the 19 year Metonic cycle, which are points never made in this article. Those points were made in another article that has major mistakes.
They didn't have to be in your article. THATS MY POINT, Im pointing them out. Something which is lacking is pointed out.
You didn't bring a single one. I would appreciate it if you show me where there are holes in the article so that I can correct it. Instead of your empty boasting, please be specific and quote the appropriate passage from the article and tell everyone what is wrong with it.
I'm done repeating myself. If you can't understand what i'm pointing out to you without me having to draw you a picture, then re-read all my posts regarding the subject.
One can approach this from three points of views, (1) What the great reading tells us, (2) Scientific, and (3) Historical.
(1) From what the great reading tells us, we can clearly see that the year is solar. When shown 1712, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "3am" is lunar and "sana" is solar or something like this. When you were proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead shifted to the hypocritical rhetorical argument that using the sun for timing is somehow "pagan".
Again, you didn't read properly. I said that pagans have used the sun cycle to time everything, which lead them to associate natural cycles with gods which they thaught were in the sky, such as the moon, the sun, and other stars. Hence it would seem logical that The God would want us to steer clear from the same error. That is the idea i get from it, just as YOU get a different idea from The Reading.
To see your Arabic mistake, just read 106, which is the immediately next passage. Is "ayat liqawm ya3lamoon" a function of just the last part that came before it ("ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard") or is it a function of everything that came before it ("ikhtilaf allay wa alnahar wa ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard")? Of course, it is a function of everything that came before it NOT just the last part. Now apply the same logic to 105. Moreover, one has to effectively understand the great reading by looking at all the passages and not one in isolation. When 1712 and 105 are read TOGETHER we can clearly see the meaning of 105. Notice that 1712 talks about daylight and night and 105 talks about the light of the sun. Notice that immediately after 105 we hear in 106 about the daylight and the night like in 1712. So those two passages are connected and we must understand them in light of each other.
Ayman. Obviously we have to take the passages in full. And they are referring to all those Signs. But SPECIFICALLY, if you do any sort of NA7AWI or QAW3ED or E3RAB, it is beyond obvious.
"Huw-alathi ja3al al-shams dhiya2, w al-qamara noora, wa kaddarahu manazil lita3lamou 3adad as-sinin wal 7isab"
This part of kaddar is clearly about the moon and when you Kadder something, it is to measure it and to dissect it which would lead to the learning of time keeping.
But now i see your point. You're saying that the part about "lita3lamou.." is referring to all the ayats before it. Ok i can't disagree there. But then lets take the other verses that mention the Day and Night together and they have nothing to do with time keeping, but their function in our daily lives.
Also, the alteration of day and night is needed in order for us to properly measure out the progression of the crescents on a daily basis, instead of trying to seperate a constant progression. Know what i mean? So it can still be interperted, but someone as hard headed as me, as pointing to a lunar cycle ) hehehe
(2) Scientifically, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "lunar calendars are better at specifying hunting restrictions". When you were again proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead made a false argument that the "restricted months were not about hunting".
Again you misunderstand. I said that it doesn't make sense because the "mating season" which would dictate when restricting hunting would be, is the opposite on either hemisphere. ie North and South. You do know that Spring in North = Fall in South and vice versa. So your perfect system would be flawed right off the bat.
My argument was that with the rotation restricted months, and the fact that you have one in the middle of the year, and 3 on the other end, would make great to accomodate this restriction, and within 19 years the cycle resets. So again, just as to YOU your interpretation SEEMS logical, to ME my interpertation is MORE logical. Purely subjective.
When shown 51-2, etc. and clearly proven wrong, you again didn't admit your mistake and again resorted to empty rhetoric. You can't be sincerely striving if you can't even admit such manifest errors. I don't think that your game of CIV4 will help you correct such errors.
I IGNORED your reference to 51 because it speaks of a state of I7RAM and its relation to the 7ajj (whatever you want it to be), and in 52 is AL-SHAHR-AL-7ARAM..singular. Again you take the most clear of ayats and twist them around to make them fit your subjective interpertation. What about 2194 and 2217 and 95? WHat does have to do with hunting? ALL KILLING is forbidden in those months, especially when it comes to FIGHTING..KITAL and is not necessarily about only the "hunting season". nnnnyaaaa...whatsup doc.
(3) Historically, even traditionalist sectarians admit that the present day so-called Islamic calendar was invented during the time of Umar I and hence the prophet didn't use this calendar.
Yes of course. Just as only with Umar was there a single authoratative Qur'an compiled, so you wanna doubt his reliability..go ahead..you're shooting youself in the foot. And all that Umar did FYI is meet with his companions and set the beginning YEAR of the calendar, and not the months or calendar itself. Hence they chose the Hijra to be year 1. The months themselves were already in operation, since we know the prophet performed 7ajj and sawm on multiple times, for at least 10 years while he was in Madina.
So as we can all see, the great reading, science, and history converge and support the understanding presented in the article and demolish your false arguments.
I have responded to everyone one of your claims but i can see how easily a new comer or a someone with little knowledge can be easily convicnced of your writings. That was a compliment btw, because you do expound well your points. I'm just showing you MY view of things.
The God gives us the scorching full-moon ("shahr ramadan") as the marker. This is the first full-moon after the summer solstice. It is also the first restricted full-moon. So you count four full moons starting with the scorching full-moon and you get the timing for the restriction. You count 12 full-moons until the next summer solstice and then you start over. If you get 13 full moons, you skip counting the 13th moon because we are told to only count 12 and this way you get automatic intercalation. It is the simplest and least error prone mechanism. This way, the lunar cycles and the solar cycles are used for timing as indicated in 1712 and 105. So you essentially have lunar "months" while the year is solar and the "calendar" is in sync with the seasons.
The Scorching Full Moon issue is up to date. But for sake of argument lets say its that. You forget that the arabs had the names of the months before the Quran was revealed, and because of their adding of months, they would keep them in a seasonal synch. So the fact that the month of ramadhan was named that way is no surprise if in fact it is the 9th month, which would fit in your time period.
Ok and how would you put this on someone's fridge so i can plan when to go to the beach?
2189 talks about the crescents being used as a timing device for the real "7ajj". Your so-called "7ajj" doesn't use the crescents for anything. It starts on an arbitrary day, the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and ends on the 10th. Thus, its timing has nothing to do with the crescent.
sigh granted and agreed that the crescents point it out? But you said yourself a crescent is a phase of the moon, which phase specifacally? We know that hillel is a crescent of a certain size, where can you see the proper set time for it? The 8th Dhul-Hijjah is basically on the start of the second quandrant/quarter whatever it is. The verse never says which specific hillel to use and when to start it. Hence you need the Sunna. Unless you show me otherwise. Anyway im no expert on this specifc issue but ill look it up.
You are not making any sense. As usual, you seem to have a preconception and you are arguing against it instead of against what is presented here. Do you even know what the word "quran" means? If so, please tell us what it means.
Dude.. i KNOW what it means and i KNOW it would means something close to THE GREAT READING, but would you call someone who's name is Ismael in Arabic, "Hey! Name of God, how are you?" or would you just call him Ismael? That's the point!
I look forward to you giving a productive reply to the article. To be productive, I suggest that you read it first, do your research to verify what is said in it, and then quote the passages that you think are flawed and highlight what is wrong with them. This would be more helpful.
Did it even dawn on you that maybe i was writing my own ideas to counter your propositions and not necessarily a point by point by line by line refutation of your article? But you're begging for it so i will.
Point by point. Which i have already done throughout my 20 posts, but whatever ill write you a dissertation worthy of academic peer review. You just won't have it in a day or two.
Salaam.
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Peace,
In this article, it is interressant to note the fact that to take the moon as reference for the fast allows to all the people to fast the same month and every season. I liked this universal side of this analysis.
What you or I like doesn't matter when it comes to the truth. What matters is what The God is telling us in the great reading. There is nothing in the great reading that says that we should follow a purely lunar calendar or that the fast is at different times each year and there is no evidence in the great reading or anywhere that the prophet used to fast at different times each year as you would like to do.
If not according to you ayman, to which period of the calendar gregorian corresponds "SH' AR RAMADHAN"? Is this period it same the all year? Do all the people meet this period or this regulation is valid only for those which observe this period?
For the answer to your questions, please see
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/timing.htmPeace,
Ayman
Peace
Ayman you say in your article that
"the full-moon around the summer solstice is special because it follows a lower path across the sky compared to the rest of the year's full moons and for some reason our brains are wired to perceive such full-moons as larger than normal."
Can Ayman you provide us evidence of what you advance?
Why don't you expressed last year at the time of the summer solstice to
recall that the abstinence begins?how translate if shahr does not mean "month"
Can you explain this passage
"Another interesting connection is in 2187, which talks about the night of the abstinence ("laylat al-siyam") in which we may approach our wives and eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn and then complete the abstinence until the night (i.e., until sunset since night starts being merged into day at sunset - for example see 2261). We already established that abstinence is then for ten days. In Chapter 89 we also hear about the dawn and then 10 nights"
Which is the relationship between the abstinence of which you speak
and the fact of being able to approach our wives, to eat and drink
until the white wire is distinct from the black wire of the paddle.Does the relationship between couple have a bond with the laws of
hunting?I just try to understand your article because my English language isn't very good. I test to understand your interpretation.
Peace.
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Peace,
Thank you for your thoughtful questions.
Ayman you say in your article that
"the full-moon around the summer solstice is special because it follows a lower path across the sky compared to the rest of the year's full moons and for some reason our brains are wired to perceive such full-moons as larger than normal."
Can Ayman you provide us evidence of what you advance?
This is not something that I advanced. It is well known and you probably saw this reddish colored full-moon in past summers. It is the most spectacular full-moon and it grabs the attention of people if they happen to be outside that night and see it. For more info on why the full-moon around the summer solstice is special, please see
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast14jun_1.htmWhy don't you expressed last year at the time of the summer solstice to
recall that the abstinence begins?I am not sure I understand your question. This year's summer solstice occurred on June 21st. The scorching full moon occurred on the night of June 21-22. So the fasting started on the dawn of June 22 and lasted for 10 days, i.e. until July 1st.
We count four full moons (including the scorching full-moon) to determine the restriction period. For this year, the fourth full-moon was on September 18.
For 2005-2006, there will be 13 full-moons between the summer solstices. We are to count only 12 as per 936. Thus, we would not count the 13th moon. So the next scorching full-moon will be on July 11, 2006. All the information that I am giving is for the Northern hemisphere. For the southern hemisphere, the timing will be different but again this is natural because the period for hunting restrictions will have to be different.
how translate if shahr does not mean "month"
- And those who die from you and leave spouses, they (the spouses) should wait on themselves four full-moons and ten (days). So when they reach their term, there is no blame on you for what they do in themselves with recognized good; and The God is informed of what you do.
2234 is in line with 2189, which says that the crescents are timing devices for people in general (not just for "7ajj"). In this case, the ten extra days is the exact time it takes for the full-moon to reach the crescent stage again.
Can you explain this passage
"Another interesting connection is in 2187, which talks about the night of the abstinence ("laylat al-siyam") in which we may approach our wives and eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn and then complete the abstinence until the night (i.e., until sunset since night starts being merged into day at sunset - for example see 2261). We already established that abstinence is then for ten days. In Chapter 89 we also hear about the dawn and then 10 nights"
Which is the relationship between the abstinence of which you speak and the fact of being able to approach our wives, to eat and drink until the white wire is distinct from the black wire of the paddle.
I do not understand your question. The Arabic says
"... ...The passage in English can be translated as "and eat and drink until the white thread from the black thread of dawn is revealed to you then complete the abstinence until the night". The expression "until it is revealed to you the white thread from the black thread of dawn" is a metaphor for the start of dawn.
Does the relationship between couple have a bond with the laws of hunting?
No.
I just try to understand your article because my English language isn't very good. I test to understand your interpretation.
I understand and I appreciate your sincerity and I will try to explain as best as I can. Do you know Arabic? In this case, I can provide more Arabic explanations. Please let me know if you have other questions.
Peace,
Ayman