Spirit(Nafs)

Jaxal

SaLaM idolfree

idolfree i think this is the first time we agreed on anythin shock . Have you started eating KFC? D

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Jaxal,

I'm sure we will agree on more as time passes.

I never gave up meat yet,but I havent eaten KFC in a while, but I am sure I have eaten other food that is just as bad. I am working on it though.

I have nafs as Spirit, I do not think it limits nafs in anyway, I dont think Spirit was totally understood. The spirit can be looked at in three sections.

Does anyone know what these three sections are?

mquran

Salaam Kyle,

I have nafs as Spirit, I do not think it limits nafs in anyway, I dont think Spirit was totally understood. The spirit can be looked at in three sections.

Well, it depends on how you assemble your analysis. What I do is, I look at all occurences and processes and build a mental, non-verbal perception of the nafs. I then bring into my own diction in my life.

When you say 'spirit', the word itself carries with it meaning inherited from its use in english. That may impede or even corrupt your understanding of the nafs.

thats just from my experience, Kyle.

el-Aziz

I take "spirit" and "soul" to be the same thing, for the record.

I consider ruuh to be the spirit and nafs to be the soul.
Not the same thing.

Peace be upon you,

How do you all understand the nafs?

What I ascertain is that the nafs is not part of the being that we call "I". It is the part of being that we must purify to be successful.

Please comment on the nafs.

Nafs is something to obtain reflection of.
I would like to compare it to the aryan word "khod" that has the exact same meaning. As in Persian, khod-am is "myself", just like nafs-? could be the same thing (even if it's not commonly used).
The funny thing is that the Persian word for God is "Khod?" literally meaning "itself". I hope this gives an idea of what I consider being the nature of "nafs".

I totally agree that nafs is not what we believe to be "I"...where we - not by grammatical rules, but - in fact actually state ourselves being an object (to oneself) and not a subject.

Was that clear?

/S

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

When you say 'spirit', the word itself carries with it meaning inherited from its use in english. That may impede or even corrupt your understanding of the nafs.

thats just from my experience, Kyle.

Respected and understood.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you El Aziz,

I think I understood you. Only difference I have is that I take "ruh ul qudus" to be the divine energy which moves through and animates the spirit/soul (nafs). I compare the "ruh" to what the Chinese call "chi", what the Hindus call "prana", etc.

The more we develop this divine energy, the better we can carryout what we WILL to do. That is why the "ruh" is a crucial part of the story of Isa, son of Mariam. Isa represents the WILL of man, and the will of man is carried out by vitalized "energy". This ruh/chi/prana is chiefly obtained through the breath(reSPIRation). The root word for "ruh" is the same for Breath in this reading(quran). The SUN of God ionizes the air we breath and the plants capture the sunlight so we can consume it. It is only after the "ruh" that the malaika submit to adam.

As for Nafs, I take that as the material side of this equation (ruh being the energy side). In terms of metaphor, it is like the sun is the ruh and the soil is the nafs. Our thoughts are like seeds planted in our soil(nafs), when we get rain (knowlegde/revelation/inSPIRation), mixed with the sun (ruh/chi-the energy to carry it out), then the seeds(thoughts) will grow(manifest).

unknownuser

Peace be upon you M Mehdi,

idolfree, in more words than necessary so far you've only come to say what i did above...

Thats why started with " The Only difference I have is that I take "ruh ul qudus" to be the divine energy..." Which means that I agree with everything else But everyone else might want this to be elaborated upon as there are more here than just you and I respected brother

idolfree1 wrote
Does anyone know what these three sections are?

so far from what i've read you have only mentioned two...

Actually, I haven't mentioned any of them. The three I was referring to are, from highest to lowest;

-An-nafs al-mutma?innah (Peaceful spirit)
-An-nafs al-laww?mah (Reproaching spirit)
-An-nafs al-amm?rah (Commanding Spirit)

Or we can say

Divine Spirit
Mental Spirit
Vital or Animal Spirit

Or we can say

Heaven
Man
Earth

Etc.

mquran

Salaam Kyle,

Interesting link there, Kyle. To me, the various words in al-quraan pointing out phenomena like the sun, moon, earth etc have a symbolic meaning in our society (like i know some languages which call thier movies stars 'STARS') but im not sure about making a direct link like this. thanks for the heads up though, man. You've been reading some Taoist works, i think ? Good of you to share that.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Thanks Yes, I have been reading many different philosophies. I am trying not to think of the information as being "taoist" or this or that, I am trying to take all opinions and follow the best

but im not sure about making a direct link like this

Please elaborate on what dangers you see in making a direct link so I can reflect.

mquran

Well Kyle, first let me say that there are 2 dimensions to my analysis project

perspective of al-kitaab
perspective of al-quraan.

in al-kitaab sense, these are the real laws in the universe. it's the actual operating system in the universe. whatever manual you read (or dont read), you press the button, something'll happen. so from this dimension, im not so worried about strictness of concepts. i read and simply check the criterion.

in al-quraan sense, my analysis must be strict. i.e. if the reading doesnt say it, im not going to assume it. i take this position because in my experience, when u allow the reading to be in the driver's seat, it reveals far more of itself then when you project concepts into it (case in point would be the jew/christian myth in the quran).

so getting back to the heaven-man-earth 'trinity' of the taoists. im not sure how the quran sees it. the word 'heaven' and 'garden' are distinct words. having said that, the word 'sama' for heavens roots itself in 'ism' or 'name/essence'. Plenty of research to be done, i think

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Well Kyle, first let me say that there are 2 dimensions to my analysis project

perspective of al-kitaab
perspective of al-quraan.

in al-kitaab sense, these are the real laws in the universe. it's the actual operating system in the universe. whatever manual you read (or dont read), you press the button, something'll happen. so from this dimension, im not so worried about strictness of concepts. i read and simply check the criterion.

Understood and agreed.

in al-quraan sense, my analysis must be strict. i.e. if the reading doesnt say it, im not going to assume it. i take this position because in my experience, when u allow the reading to be in the driver's seat, it reveals far more of itself then when you project concepts into it (case in point would be the jew/christian myth in the quran).

Understood. Do you see the symbolism in this reading of revelation being like rain falling on a dead earth, etc?

so getting back to the heaven-man-earth 'trinity' of the taoists. im not sure how the quran sees it. the word 'heaven' and 'garden' are distinct words. having said that, the word 'sama' for heavens roots itself in 'ism' or 'name/essence'. Plenty of research to be done, i think

Yes, I took the heaven-man-earth comparison from another reading, and I agree more work needs to be done.

mquran

Understood. Do you see the symbolism in this reading of revelation being like rain falling on a dead earth, etc?

Ah yes. Exactly where im going with this. Imho, al-quraan refers us to ever present signs in the world so that we may find - despite the worst possible corruption in language- the authentic meaning of the text.

Kyle, if you can, find a book called 'Islam and the Bahai Faith'. i read it some years ago and this baha ullah guy did have some powerful insights on the metaphors the quran uses.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you M Mehdi,

i was waiting for the mental.. the mind if you will... thanks

You're welcome D

idolfree1 wrote
Mental Spirit
Vital or Animal Spirit

M Mehdi
the mind is part of the physical...

Assuming we are both talking about "mind" and not "brain", yes mind is part of the physical realm, but the physical realm is divided into two sections phenomenal and noumenal. The Mind belongs to the noumenal realm. If you were refering to the brain, that would be phenomenal realm.

how can you seperate the mind and the animal... the mind is dependent on the animal.. the mind is not seprate from the animal.. that's why i only brought two...

i'd like to hear why you seperated the two.. -thanks

The mind is seperate from the animal. Those beings we call animals do not have this "mind", so they follow instinct. It is "mind" that allows man to achieve the highest hieghts or go to the lowest lows. The mind is the middle ground, where we must achieve our balance. The mind recieves information from the Divine Spirit as well as the Animal Spirit. For example, one is overweight, the divine spirit says "get on a good diet, excercise", the animal spirit says "go eat that ice cream", the mind is the area where we must SEE AND CHOOSE to follow either the animal or the Divine.

The Mind is the part of us that recieves the messages from the Divine Spirit and REPROGRAMS the animal spirit to follow Divine Law.

Aw man, this is so deep. I get excited talking about it D Please let me know if you do not understand what I am saying or if you disagree and would like to discuss this further.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Ah yes. Exactly where im going with this. Imho, al-quraan refers us to ever present signs in the world so that we may find - despite the worst possible corruption in language- the authentic meaning of the text.

Kyle, if you can, find a book called 'Islam and the Bahai Faith'. i read it some years ago and this baha ullah guy did have some powerful insights on the metaphors the quran uses.

I think you refered that book to me before. I wil try to find it. Thanks Bro.

mquran

I think you refered that book to me before. I wil try to find it. Thanks Bro
.

Have I ? Wow, it must have been good then, to have stuck in my memory like that! YW and you could share your reading material, if you want.

mquran

Kyle, Majidah's pointed out to me the link between ruh and nafs. Adam was breathed into 'ruh' from Allah and bani adam were asked to witness on thier 'nafs' (7/172). Inshaa Allah, i will explore this further.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ and Majidah,

Majidah's pointed out to me the link between ruh and nafs. Adam was breathed into 'ruh' from Allah and bani adam were asked to witness on thier 'nafs' (7/172). Inshaa Allah, i will explore this further

Tell Majidah to jump in the open discussion so we can all build together.

So far, I see the first part like this, the "ruh" is the divine energy that ANIMATES us to move. It is where the emotions reside. If we do not get emotion BEHIND us, we have difficulty carrying things out. But make sure the emotion is BEHIND adam(intellect) and not BEFORE adam(intellect).

Regarding bani israel witnessing on thier nafs, I am taking Nafs to be the matter side of "energy/matter". It is this side that gives us the illusion of seperation, so it is this side that would need to bear witnes of the ONENESS. It is the matter side the is "furthest" away from the God.

I look foward to more input or clarification.

Prince

Wow i'm liking this topic keep going guys interesting stuff...unfortunately I havent covered this section from the Quran ONLY.

PEACE

unknownuser

my modest opinion

'nafs' = 'soul' is feminin. Plural form 'noufous'
'ruuh' = 'spirit' is masculin. Plural form non-existent
There is only ONE ruuh mentioned in the Reading. It is the spirit of God.
It is Gabriel.

)

SwedenMajidah

Salaam all,

I know I have promise myself to not post here for awhile but i can do one exception on this one D

Ruh=spirit
Nafs=soul

See it like this in a modern explanation. Ruh from Allah is the software like in a computer and you can upgrade all the time.The nafs is the hardware which store all the softwares.
Both must co-operate for a good whole.

The nafs(hardware) can be broken or face other hardships so the ruh can't make a good place in there.

So the connections between ruh and nafs must work to become a follower of Allah in the way He want.

the advice in Quran to search for knowledge is very important to achieve the perfect state of being.

Look, we are nude when we are born into this world. But very fast we get dressed and filled with information,knowledge.And we raises all the time to new levels.

This is our goal in life to climb to a new level. Hven't you notice that there are levels also in Paradise.

I'm in rush and I will come back Insha'Allah later on.

Peace Sis Majidah