Spirit(Nafs)

mquran

Salaam Kyle,

Interesting link there, Kyle. To me, the various words in al-quraan pointing out phenomena like the sun, moon, earth etc have a symbolic meaning in our society (like i know some languages which call thier movies stars 'STARS') but im not sure about making a direct link like this. thanks for the heads up though, man. You've been reading some Taoist works, i think ? Good of you to share that.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Thanks Yes, I have been reading many different philosophies. I am trying not to think of the information as being "taoist" or this or that, I am trying to take all opinions and follow the best

but im not sure about making a direct link like this

Please elaborate on what dangers you see in making a direct link so I can reflect.

mquran

Well Kyle, first let me say that there are 2 dimensions to my analysis project

perspective of al-kitaab
perspective of al-quraan.

in al-kitaab sense, these are the real laws in the universe. it's the actual operating system in the universe. whatever manual you read (or dont read), you press the button, something'll happen. so from this dimension, im not so worried about strictness of concepts. i read and simply check the criterion.

in al-quraan sense, my analysis must be strict. i.e. if the reading doesnt say it, im not going to assume it. i take this position because in my experience, when u allow the reading to be in the driver's seat, it reveals far more of itself then when you project concepts into it (case in point would be the jew/christian myth in the quran).

so getting back to the heaven-man-earth 'trinity' of the taoists. im not sure how the quran sees it. the word 'heaven' and 'garden' are distinct words. having said that, the word 'sama' for heavens roots itself in 'ism' or 'name/essence'. Plenty of research to be done, i think

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Well Kyle, first let me say that there are 2 dimensions to my analysis project

perspective of al-kitaab
perspective of al-quraan.

in al-kitaab sense, these are the real laws in the universe. it's the actual operating system in the universe. whatever manual you read (or dont read), you press the button, something'll happen. so from this dimension, im not so worried about strictness of concepts. i read and simply check the criterion.

Understood and agreed.

in al-quraan sense, my analysis must be strict. i.e. if the reading doesnt say it, im not going to assume it. i take this position because in my experience, when u allow the reading to be in the driver's seat, it reveals far more of itself then when you project concepts into it (case in point would be the jew/christian myth in the quran).

Understood. Do you see the symbolism in this reading of revelation being like rain falling on a dead earth, etc?

so getting back to the heaven-man-earth 'trinity' of the taoists. im not sure how the quran sees it. the word 'heaven' and 'garden' are distinct words. having said that, the word 'sama' for heavens roots itself in 'ism' or 'name/essence'. Plenty of research to be done, i think

Yes, I took the heaven-man-earth comparison from another reading, and I agree more work needs to be done.

mquran

Understood. Do you see the symbolism in this reading of revelation being like rain falling on a dead earth, etc?

Ah yes. Exactly where im going with this. Imho, al-quraan refers us to ever present signs in the world so that we may find - despite the worst possible corruption in language- the authentic meaning of the text.

Kyle, if you can, find a book called 'Islam and the Bahai Faith'. i read it some years ago and this baha ullah guy did have some powerful insights on the metaphors the quran uses.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you M Mehdi,

i was waiting for the mental.. the mind if you will... thanks

You're welcome D

idolfree1 wrote
Mental Spirit
Vital or Animal Spirit

M Mehdi
the mind is part of the physical...

Assuming we are both talking about "mind" and not "brain", yes mind is part of the physical realm, but the physical realm is divided into two sections phenomenal and noumenal. The Mind belongs to the noumenal realm. If you were refering to the brain, that would be phenomenal realm.

how can you seperate the mind and the animal... the mind is dependent on the animal.. the mind is not seprate from the animal.. that's why i only brought two...

i'd like to hear why you seperated the two.. -thanks

The mind is seperate from the animal. Those beings we call animals do not have this "mind", so they follow instinct. It is "mind" that allows man to achieve the highest hieghts or go to the lowest lows. The mind is the middle ground, where we must achieve our balance. The mind recieves information from the Divine Spirit as well as the Animal Spirit. For example, one is overweight, the divine spirit says "get on a good diet, excercise", the animal spirit says "go eat that ice cream", the mind is the area where we must SEE AND CHOOSE to follow either the animal or the Divine.

The Mind is the part of us that recieves the messages from the Divine Spirit and REPROGRAMS the animal spirit to follow Divine Law.

Aw man, this is so deep. I get excited talking about it D Please let me know if you do not understand what I am saying or if you disagree and would like to discuss this further.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ,

Ah yes. Exactly where im going with this. Imho, al-quraan refers us to ever present signs in the world so that we may find - despite the worst possible corruption in language- the authentic meaning of the text.

Kyle, if you can, find a book called 'Islam and the Bahai Faith'. i read it some years ago and this baha ullah guy did have some powerful insights on the metaphors the quran uses.

I think you refered that book to me before. I wil try to find it. Thanks Bro.

mquran

I think you refered that book to me before. I wil try to find it. Thanks Bro
.

Have I ? Wow, it must have been good then, to have stuck in my memory like that! YW and you could share your reading material, if you want.

mquran

Kyle, Majidah's pointed out to me the link between ruh and nafs. Adam was breathed into 'ruh' from Allah and bani adam were asked to witness on thier 'nafs' (7/172). Inshaa Allah, i will explore this further.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you MQ and Majidah,

Majidah's pointed out to me the link between ruh and nafs. Adam was breathed into 'ruh' from Allah and bani adam were asked to witness on thier 'nafs' (7/172). Inshaa Allah, i will explore this further

Tell Majidah to jump in the open discussion so we can all build together.

So far, I see the first part like this, the "ruh" is the divine energy that ANIMATES us to move. It is where the emotions reside. If we do not get emotion BEHIND us, we have difficulty carrying things out. But make sure the emotion is BEHIND adam(intellect) and not BEFORE adam(intellect).

Regarding bani israel witnessing on thier nafs, I am taking Nafs to be the matter side of "energy/matter". It is this side that gives us the illusion of seperation, so it is this side that would need to bear witnes of the ONENESS. It is the matter side the is "furthest" away from the God.

I look foward to more input or clarification.

Prince

Wow i'm liking this topic keep going guys interesting stuff...unfortunately I havent covered this section from the Quran ONLY.

PEACE

unknownuser

my modest opinion

'nafs' = 'soul' is feminin. Plural form 'noufous'
'ruuh' = 'spirit' is masculin. Plural form non-existent
There is only ONE ruuh mentioned in the Reading. It is the spirit of God.
It is Gabriel.

)

SwedenMajidah

Salaam all,

I know I have promise myself to not post here for awhile but i can do one exception on this one D

Ruh=spirit
Nafs=soul

See it like this in a modern explanation. Ruh from Allah is the software like in a computer and you can upgrade all the time.The nafs is the hardware which store all the softwares.
Both must co-operate for a good whole.

The nafs(hardware) can be broken or face other hardships so the ruh can't make a good place in there.

So the connections between ruh and nafs must work to become a follower of Allah in the way He want.

the advice in Quran to search for knowledge is very important to achieve the perfect state of being.

Look, we are nude when we are born into this world. But very fast we get dressed and filled with information,knowledge.And we raises all the time to new levels.

This is our goal in life to climb to a new level. Hven't you notice that there are levels also in Paradise.

I'm in rush and I will come back Insha'Allah later on.

Peace Sis Majidah

SwedenMajidah

Salaam Pazuzu,

Well have you read surah 5822?

What I see there is that Allah strengthened them with a spirit from Himself.

Them is people who have faith in Allah and the last day.

Peace Sis Majidah

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Pazuzu,

'nafs' = 'soul' is feminin. Plural form 'noufous'
'ruuh' = 'spirit' is masculin. Plural form non-existent
There is only ONE ruuh mentioned in the Reading.

Yes, absolutely correct and it agrees with my position.

Everything in the Universe is from the same "energy" (ruh-singular), Which starts off as one nafs, but divides into many (nafs plural).

We are seperate at the lower level (nafs) but joined at the upper level (ruh). It is the VERY SAME ruh that animates all of us, just like it is teh same sun that gives us all light.

It is the spirit of God.

Yes, The God's Divine Energy

It is Gabriel.

I dont think the divine energy has a name. Hopefully someone can help us with the root for Jibreel so we can look further. What would be the guidance in giving the divine energy a name?

TheNabi

Peace Kyle,

Jim-Ba-Ra = To reduce from a fractured state, or restore from a state of poverty to sufficiency. Set or reduced from a fractured state. "A poor man being likened to one who has a broken bone and his restoration to wealth being likened to the setting of the bone." Compell, constrain, incite, urge, or induce another . Addition of something for the purpose of reparation . Self-magnification, pride, haughtiness, insolence, bold, audacious, inordinate, tyrannical, overbearing, extravagent. A king. "There has been no prophetic office but a kingly office has succeeded in its place through someone's self-magnification, pride, haughtiness, or insolence." Slave, servant. No retaliation or expiatory mulct exacted . Tall, above the reach of the hand, ascend , and retaining excellence.

Jibreel
Al-jabbar
Jabbar

Joe

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Joe,

Thanks for the references, lets see what we can find.

el-Aziz

Good morning!

Peace be upon you El Aziz,

I think I understood you. Only difference I have is that I take "ruh ul qudus" to be the divine energy which moves through and animates the spirit/soul (nafs). I compare the "ruh" to what the Chinese call "chi", what the Hindus call "prana", etc.

The more we develop this divine energy, the better we can carryout what we WILL to do. That is why the "ruh" is a crucial part of the story of Isa, son of Mariam. Isa represents the WILL of man, and the will of man is carried out by vitalized "energy". This ruh/chi/prana is chiefly obtained through the breath(reSPIRation). The root word for "ruh" is the same for Breath in this reading(quran). The SUN of God ionizes the air we breath and the plants capture the sunlight so we can consume it. It is only after the "ruh" that the malaika submit to adam.

As for Nafs, I take that as the material side of this equation (ruh being the energy side). In terms of metaphor, it is like the sun is the ruh and the soil is the nafs. Our thoughts are like seeds planted in our soil(nafs), when we get rain (knowlegde/revelation/inSPIRation), mixed with the sun (ruh/chi-the energy to carry it out), then the seeds(thoughts) will grow(manifest).

I think it's only a matter of semantics here. Although "spritit" should be the worker while "soul" would be the essence of something.
Therefor, ruuh - meaning the air - is what actually creates (i.e. the spirit) and nafs is a introvert way of looking at the essence of one or another.

/St?phane

unknownuser

idolfree wrote

Quote
It is Gabriel.

I dont think the divine energy has a name. Hopefully someone can help us with the root for Jibreel so we can look further. What would be the guidance in giving the divine energy a name?

And why not?
Why shouldn't it have a name?

Let's look at the following verses together shall we?

1 )God sent his "Ruuh" ( Gabriel ) to Mary, and brought her tidings that she would bear a child.

And relate in the Scripture Mary, when she withdrew herself from her family to a place which was to the east.
She took to a barrier which separated her from them, so We sent Our spirit to her, and he took on the shape of a human in all similarity.
She said "I seek refuge with the Almighty from you if you are a person of faith."
He said "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you the gift of a pure son."
She said "How can I have a son when no man has touched me, nor do I desire such?"
He said "It is such that your Lord has said, it is easy for Me. And We shall make him a sign for mankind and a mercy from Us. It is a matter already ordained."

God's spirit came to Mary in the shape of a human being.

The Koran was revealed to the prophet via God's spirit ( Gabriel )

It was sent down with the trusted Spirit.
Upon your heart, so that you would be of the warners.
In a clear Arabic tongue.

Whenever there is revelation, Gabriel is involved. This is what I understand from the following verse

Possessor of the highest ranks, the One with the Throne. He sends the Spirit with His command upon whom He wills from His servants, that they may warn of the Day of Summoning.

And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know.
Say "The holy Spirit has sent it down from your Lord with truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have surrendered."

They asked the prophet about God's spirit, and he gave them this answer

And they ask you concerning the Spirit. Say "The Spirit is from the command on my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little."

Now, for those of you who still have doubts that Gabriel is the Spirit of God ( Ruuh), I think the following verses should help.

the Ruuh is an angelic being.

The Day when the Spirit and the Angels stand in line, none will speak unless the Almighty permits him and he speaks what is true.
*Please note the expression in italics. We will get back to it later on.

Say "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel, then know that he has sent it down into your heart by God's permission, authenticating what is already present, and a guide and good news for the believers."

If the two of you repent to God, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then God is his ally, and so are Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the Angels are his helpers.

Conclusion

Almost the entire reading is basically God speaking to the prophet through Gabriel.
There is a very long verse in the Koran which 99% of muslims out there read every day, without even being aware of its meaning. It is one of the longest verses in the Koran.

Check it out

God, there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustainer.
No slumber or sleep overtakes Him; to Him belongs all that is in heavens and in the Earth. Who will intercede with Him except by His leave? He knows their present and their future ( the angels ), and they ( the angels ) do not have any of His knowledge except for what He wishes. His knowledge * encompasses all of the heavens and the Earth and it is easy for Him to preserve them. He is the Most High, the Great.

I think these may be the very words of Gabriel himself!! He is praising God on behalf of all the angels.

Note again the italics. Everytime you see the phrase "except by His leave", or, "unless God permitts" it almost certainly has to do with the angels. This has lead me to believe that only the angels can intercede on our behalf on Judgement day. (But that's another topic, better discussed elsewhere.)

I think the word "Kursi" doesn't mean throne. Its root is "kaf" "ra" "seen" , which has nothing to do with chairs or thrones. Also, the context of the verse deals with God's knowledge as surrounding ( or being supperior to ) that of the angels.

I have spoken )

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Pazuzu,

Please have patience with my response, I am still working out the root J-B-R to find the correct understanding.

I will respond once I have finished my study.