Arranged Marriages are an INJUSTICE?
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Peace Ahmed,
Then my guess was right. D
What time is it now in Australia? Evening, afternoon? It is 8 am in Riyadh.
I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear
I guess you have to bring that Ayah then, and I doubt that you would find such a concept in the Quran. I never came across such a message, direct or indirect.
As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners. Marriage is something very very personal and the person has the full right to choose for him/herself. It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more. If one is fully free to choose their religion as there is no "Ikraha Fee AlDeen", then "Min Bab Awla" there should be no "Ikraha Fee AlZawaj". Choosing a life partner need not be argued about. It is a very personal, private matter.Here is how the arranged marraige should be practised
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A man will be looking for a wife so he inquires with some family members, freinds and possibly work mates
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same with a woman who wants to marry, she will inquire with the same
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the parties other than the man and the woman will try to find a good partner for the person wants to marry
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if found, a meeting between them and all the parties invloved should attend and the two must start to know each other
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if the two accepted it then piece of cake
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the two may also choose yo have more time to know each other before they decide
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When the time asked passes, it will be up to the two to go ahead with the marriage
that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated
the problem is humans omit points 4 to 7 and force the marriage to happen, and that is not Islamic in any way, it is a cultural thing
In Saudi Arabia We don't have #2 and #3. No man will ask another man to marry their daughter or sister. The family of the woman will just have to wait for "3adalha" her destined husband.
#4 does not happen here, and if it does then the woman has only half an hour to speak to the guy (if she dares to) and then it would be settled. After speaking to the guy with of course her family present she would not dare to say no, I don't want him. Because the family pressure will be overwhelming.
that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated
You are either lucky or too kind. Eygptian men are the kindest of all Arabs. That is a well-known and agreed-upon fact D
In Eygpt, things are so much different than here. Eygptians are very open, so there is no comparison between there and here.
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think? -
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Peace Ahmed,
Peace sister
Then my guess was right.
Absolutely, do you mind if I ask what was the hint? don't be shy in saying it, I will not be offended lol
What time is it now in Australia? Evening, afternoon? It is 8 am in Riyadh.
it is 515 PM wednesday, my mom lives in Riyadh for the last 30 years BTW, she is an English Teacher
I believe the arranged marriage was mentioned in the Quran as a good practice to do, I have to find it though, it is not a direct message rather an indirect message but will be clear
I guess you have to bring that Ayah then, and I doubt that you would find such a concept in the Quran. I never came across such a message, direct or indirect.
I will but I need a lot of time please, I think it was about encouraging marraiges to some people which can be considered arranged marraige, i have to show the verse though
As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners.
I don' treally know where you got this interference from, it is just within the circuit of known people like family and friends, NO interference at all, if the two wants to marry each other after the meeting is organised, where the interference will be?
well most of the prophet marraiges were arranged marraiges
Marriage is something very very personal and the person has the full right to choose for him/herself.
fine with me, but that does not mean that I don't ask people that I know if they have a wife for me or for my son, or a husband for my daughter then we see them and if everyone is happy, why not then?
don't you consider the ads on the papers by people looking to marrry are an invitation for an arranged marriage?
well, i reckon it is
unless the only way that you accept is the man and the woman know and meet each other by themselves?
It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more.
well what you said above looks like ineterference to me
If one is fully free to choose their religion as there is no "Ikraha Fee AlDeen", then "Min Bab Awla" there should be no "Ikraha Fee AlZawaj". Choosing a life partner need not be argued about. It is a very personal, private matter.
yet I don't understand sister where you got this Ikrah from?, did I ever suggest that?
Here is how the arranged marraige should be practised
-
A man will be looking for a wife so he inquires with some family members, freinds and possibly work mates
-
same with a woman who wants to marry, she will inquire with the same
-
the parties other than the man and the woman will try to find a good partner for the person wants to marry
-
if found, a meeting between them and all the parties invloved should attend and the two must start to know each other
-
if the two accepted it then piece of cake
-
the two may also choose yo have more time to know each other before they decide
-
When the time asked passes, it will be up to the two to go ahead with the marriage
that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated
the problem is humans omit points 4 to 7 and force the marriage to happen, and that is not Islamic in any way, it is a cultural thing
In Saudi Arabia We don't have #2 and #3. No man will ask another man to marry their daughter or sister. The family of the woman will just have to wait for "3adalha" her destined husband.
well it is a cultural thing, but I reckon the prophet went to Abu Bakr and asked him to marry Ayisha, what is wrong with it if everyone is happy? "No Ikrah"
#4 does not happen here, and if it does then the woman has only half an hour to speak to the guy (if she dares to) and then it would be settled. After speaking to the guy with of course her family present she would not dare to say no, I don't want him. Because the family pressure will be overwhelming.
you see it is a cultural thing, like for example women in your country are not allowed to drive, pretty stupid if you ask me?
but let me ask you sister, can any saudi talk about the king freely in the street?
that is what happened with me, and I only needed 9 days to know her and we married on day 10 (after she also accepted) now we are living 15 years togther and have two beautiful kids and Alhamdullelah can not be separated
You are either lucky or too kind. Eygptian men are the kindest of all Arabs. That is a well-known and agreed-upon fact
Thank you sister, I appreciate your nice words, but if you really see my wife, you will perfectly undersatnd the amount of luck that I had, she was a Haja before I married her and she was raised in australia, she is also egyptian and a very beautiful lady, what else an egyptian man can ask for? lol
In Eygpt, things are so much different than here. Eygptians are very open, so there is no comparison between there and here.
of course sister, I know your country very well, I have been there many times i also did omra once, I have many family members there including my mother, and to be honest I hate both countries "Egypt and SA" don't get me wrong please, I can elaborate if you wish lol
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?
of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla lol
peace sister
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Salam Ahmed,
The hint?
Your name my dear brother! It is a typical Eygptian name ) Don't you think?I will but I need a lot of time please, I think it was about encouraging marraiges to some people which can be considered arranged marraige, i have to show the verse though
Do you mean
"Wa anki7o al ayama minkum wa ssale7een in yakoono foqaraa'a yughnihumu Allah...." Correct me if I'm wrong!As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners.
I meant the decision of choice. Of course, family and friends will always volunteer names but it should stop at that. The final decision should be the woman or the man, not the family. That is what I meant.
well most of the prophet marraiges were arranged marraiges
Maybe you are right!
fine with me, but that does not mean that I don't ask people that I know if they have a wife for me or for my son, or a husband for my daughter then we see them and if everyone is happy, why not then?
Naturally! Nothing is wrong with that. But how can you ask a husband for your daughter? How do you say it? I am curious! Do you have a certain tactics, implications...?? )
It is only out of obedience that the child should allow his/her parents to suggest opinions and learn from them but no more.
well what you said above looks like ineterference to me
But that interference is welcomed from the girl, or maybe even not welcomed. That is why parents should clear themselves from that decision even if the child asked for it. They should only give as much advice and information, and leave the rest to "Ssa7ib/Ssa7ibat Al Shaa'an"
Differences are a cultural thing, absolutely, but sometimes these things can be really bad.
So your wife was a Haja before getting married. Well let me guess
She and her family were in Australia then visited SA to make Hajj then the two families met and the marriage happened! How far am I? )I can perfectly understand why you hate SA, but Eygpt!
TAJ wrote
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla
OoooooooooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!
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SaLaM Taj
What would you say is both the man and the woman wanted their parents to look for a suitable husband/wife . Some people are just shy to do the work themselves.
Why not? If the son asks for help. The problem if they suggest someone so badly and then you didn't like the girl. Some tension is bound to happen between you and your family, don't you think?
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SaLaM Taj
You are assuming that the father/mother will then force the girl/boy they chose on their son/daughter. This is not what i meant. What i mean is, a guy/girl asks his/her parents to find a suitable husband/wife for him/her to which they agree. Is there something wrong with that?
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I have quoted those verses to my mom earlier, trying to explain ideas/ decissions should not be forced on one's children. lol. Not everyone sees it)
Perhaps not your mom but when you become a mom then perhaps you can put that into practice -)
But then, when it comes to our parents, who do believe that they kind of own us,
This attitude must need to change. But it will not happen with your parents perhaps but when you become a parent yourself then may be. But you have to start somewhere wink
and when we are well aware that our decissions would hurt them and make them miserable, V r left with no choice but accept and smile at our pathetic position.
Yes the situation is pathetic. But I think with good communication with your parents then perhaps they may be able to see the Ideal of not owning childrens dreams -)
Ofcourse, I would never ever do the same to my kids. But then again, that depends too, coz I wont be the only one having to decide.
I think we need to bring up our kids so that they are capable of making a sound decision in their life. But that final decision would be theirs...
Regards,
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Hi Lotetree,
This attitude must need to change. But it will not happen with your parents perhaps but when you become a parent yourself then may be. But you have to start somewhere wink
I agree.
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Arranged Marriages as it is practiced in Pakistan, Bangladesh and India is a way of the Ugly People marrying the Beautiful. The Unintelligent marrying the Smart!
Arranged marriages is a way of perpetuating the Power of Men over women!
Regards,
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Arranged marriages is the only way to get married here.
they don't exist here.
Marriage is a personal thing here, no parents would dare to interfere. They will give some advice of course and some opinion but from outside., the work is done before it is believed that it is impossible to choose someone who won't be accepted by the parents if the girl or the boy gets along with them, with the parents, because the preferences will be the same, the values, the likes and dislikes.
This has been the way for me, for my parents, for my grand parents, (for my great grand parents I don't know) and it will be the same for my children.
Besides, it is not ok here to think of marriage too soon after meeting the other person, it would be considered selfish and to get married without knowing the other person well would be considered a crazy thing.
I totally agree with you.. thats a nice way to approach and get to know a person before taking the relation in to serious level....
hehe...may be I should travel to spain again and date some girls,....hehhehe
shanti
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Arranged Marriages as it is practiced in Pakistan, Bangladesh and India is a way of the Ugly People marrying the Beautiful. The Unintelligent marrying the Smart!
Arranged marriages is a way of perpetuating the Power of Men over women!
Regards,
Donno about India or Pakistan.....but in Bangladesh...ppl are changing. Now days the young generation prefers love marriage than arranged. Still tehre is a long way to go as this change can be mostly observed in the city areas.
shanti(peace)
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Salam Ahmed,
Salam sister Taj
The hint?
Your name my dear brother! It is a typical Eygptian name ) Don't you think?I thought Mohammad is the most common one, well, ahmed is not that far, did you notice in most egyptian movies, the star name is Ahmed and the costar is Mona? lol
I will but I need a lot of time please, I think it was about encouraging marraiges to some people which can be considered arranged marraige, i have to show the verse though
Do you mean
"Wa anki7o al ayama minkum wa ssale7een in yakoono foqaraa'a yughnihumu Allah...." Correct me if I'm wrong!not sure sister I have to find the verse and discuss it with you, i may be wrong though, but I will do my best to find it
As a matter of fact, I think it goes straight against Islam to interfere with the choice of marriage partners.
I meant the decision of choice. Of course, family and friends will always volunteer names but it should stop at that. The final decision should be the woman or the man, not the family. That is what I meant.
sure
well most of the prophet marraiges were arranged marraiges
Maybe you are right!
I think all are except Khadija
fine with me, but that does not mean that I don't ask people that I know if they have a wife for me or for my son, or a husband for my daughter then we see them and if everyone is happy, why not then?
Naturally! Nothing is wrong with that. But how can you ask a husband for your daughter? How do you say it? I am curious! Do you have a certain tactics, implications...?? )
no tactics but looking for a good man to my daughter
Differences are a cultural thing, absolutely, but sometimes these things can be really bad.
I agree
So your wife was a Haja before getting married. Well let me guess
She and her family were in Australia then visited SA to make Hajj then the two families met and the marriage happened! How far am I? )not too far and not too close, my mother in law wanted an egyptian husband to her daughter after the horrible experience she went through with her australian daughter in law who was married to her elder son and had 4 children from him, the aussie wife even prevented the kids from seeing their grand parents, they divirced 4 years ago and now he is married to an egyptian and have anopther 2 kids from her, his second marraige was arranged and they are very happy, so that was the motive for my mother in law to seek a husband from the same culture so she went with her to haj and asked Allah for Ibn El Hallal to her daughter and I reckon her wish was granted lol
I can perfectly understand why you hate SA, but Eygpt!
I hate Egypt more than SA, in fact I should be saying I hate SA because it is not my country, but I hate the people holding power in your country, for egypt, it is a very long story but I reckon I'm not confused regarding this senstive issue, I want the best for egypt but it seems it will always be impossible and those bunch of tyrants holding power
TAJ wrote
However, in Eygpt you have something very strange! "Katb Al Kitab" is not considered marriage. There has to be a wedding before the marriage can be consummated! And this goes against Al "Shar3" as far as I know! In Eygpt there are many heated arguments, started for some time now, between people of Shar3 and traditionalists regarding this point. What do you think?of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla
OoooooooooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!
We were legal husband and wife sister, the Kitab was written, and my wife is a very open minded woman and does not hold that much regards for the confusing traditions, especially she was raised in australia
peace sister
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Salam Ahmed,
When I said "your name" I meant your full name "Ahmed Bahgat" and not just Ahmed! That combination is Egyptian no doubt. Like for example if your name were "Noor Al Haq" I would guess that you are Paki or Bengali. If your name were "Noor Allah" I would guess you are Iranian, generally speaking.
The movies )
Suad, Lyla, Adel, Sala7... are also very popular in Egyptian movies, no? It is been a while since I've watched an Egyptian movie. The last one was Adel Imam's "El Safarah Fee El 3imarah". About Israli embassy renting an apartment, as the place for the embassy, in the same building that Adel Imam lives in Cairo. Not a bad movie but I loved his old ones much better, the ones with Yusra and Elham Shaheen..TAJ wrote
Naturally! Nothing is wrong with that. But how can you ask a husband for your daughter? How do you say it? I am curious! Do you have a certain tactics, implications...??
no tactics but looking for a good man to my daughter
How!? Give me an example of how, if that is not too much to ask! ? I am just curious!
my mother in law wanted an egyptian husband to her daughter after the horrible experience she went through with her australian daughter in law who was married to her elder son and had 4 children from him, the aussie wife even prevented the kids from seeing their grand parents, they divirced 4 years ago and now he is married to an egyptian and have anopther 2 kids from her, his second marraige was arranged and they are very happy, so that was the motive for my mother in law to seek a husband from the same culture so she went with her to haj and asked Allah for Ibn El Hallal to her daughter and I reckon her wish was granted lol
I will tell you something Egyptian women are really different than the rest of women in the whole world!!!! You know, there is a saying that is quite common here that goes "He who has not married an Egyptian woman, has not been married at all"!!! And local women have some feeling against Egyptian women!!!! And I better stop here lol
of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla
OoooooooooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!We were legal husband and wife sister, the Kitab was written, and my wife is a very open minded woman and does not hold that much regards for the confusing traditions, especially she was raised in australia
I have to disagree here. I think it is something that you would want to keep for "Ellailah El Kebeerah". I have read that even in USA that this sort of "waiting" is spreading among some girls, not to mention that it already exists there among conservative religious people. Jessica Simpson the singer, is one famous example.
Peace Brother
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Salama Aleikum Taj
Eygptian men are the kindest of all Arabs. That is a well-known and agreed-upon fact
You haven't been ever married to one nor do you know more egyptian couples around you...right? ) 'cos otherwise you wouldn't say so I guess.
Egyptians are definititly very kind people (damhum chafeef!), but egyptian men yell to their wifes as much as other arab men cry .
My best regards
Salam
warda -
Salam Warda,
I was only speaking generally and only based on the couples I know. They men looked extremely powerless and they made good "housewives"! They would cook, clean, etc..
But then again you should see the men from around here roll
And I believe they are worse because they are less educated than the Egyptians. They suppress women much more than in Egypt, don't you think? -
Salam Ahmed,
Salam Sister Taj
When I said "your name" I meant your full name "Ahmed Bahgat" and not just Ahmed! That combination is Egyptian no doubt. Like for example if your name were "Noor Al Haq" I would guess that you are Paki or Bengali. If your name were "Noor Allah" I would guess you are Iranian, generally speaking.
I agree regarding my full name, in fact I know a couple named Ahmed Bahgat, a famous Egyptian writer who writes in Al Ahram, and a very famous business man named Ahmed Bahgat
The movies )
Suad, Lyla, Adel, Sala7... are also very popular in Egyptian movies, no? It is been a while since I've watched an Egyptian movie. The last one was Adel Imam's "El Safarah Fee El 3imarah". About Israli embassy renting an apartment, as the place for the embassy, in the same building that Adel Imam lives in Cairo. Not a bad movie but I loved his old ones much better, the ones with Yusra and Elham Shaheen..Believe it or not Taj, my wife ?anne? watch all these movies and I hardly do while she was raised in Australia and I was raised in Egypt, I hardly watch TV actually, only News, Sports and Documentaries, but I used to like the old black and white Egyptian movies, they are great indeed, not the current crap
TAJ wrote
Naturally! Nothing is wrong with that. But how can you ask a husband for your daughter? How do you say it? I am curious! Do you have a certain tactics, implications...??
no tactics but looking for a good man to my daughter
How!? Give me an example of how, if that is not too much to ask! ? I am just curious!
very hard Taj, it depends on talks with my daughter after I allow her to talk to him and to understand him, possibly through talks with my wife and certainly through talks with him, possibly also asking about him through third parties who know him well, and if the daughter is fine then why not?
my mother in law wanted an egyptian husband to her daughter after the horrible experience she went through with her australian daughter in law who was married to her elder son and had 4 children from him, the aussie wife even prevented the kids from seeing their grand parents, they divirced 4 years ago and now he is married to an egyptian and have anopther 2 kids from her, his second marraige was arranged and they are very happy, so that was the motive for my mother in law to seek a husband from the same culture so she went with her to haj and asked Allah for Ibn El Hallal to her daughter and I reckon her wish was granted lol
I will tell you something Egyptian women are really different than the rest of women in the whole world!!!! You know, there is a saying that is quite common here that goes "He who has not married an Egyptian woman, has not been married at all"!!! And local women have some feeling against Egyptian women!!!! And I better stop here lol
Well, I?m so lucky then, but it seems because I?m Egyptian I found the other Arabic women more sexier than the Egyptian women, in fact I love their Arabic accent heaps, LOL
of course sister another stupid and flawed cultural thing, for me when my Kitab was written, I committed the thing betwen me and my wife and we didn't wait for the dukhla
OoooooooooooooKkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!We were legal husband and wife sister, the Kitab was written, and my wife is a very open minded woman and does not hold that much regards for the confusing traditions, especially she was raised in Australia
I have to disagree here. I think it is something that you would want to keep for "Ellailah El Kebeerah". I have read that even in USA that this sort of "waiting" is spreading among some girls, not to mention that it already exists there among conservative religious people. Jessica Simpson the singer, is one famous example.
We actually had two Lialah Kebeerah, one in Cairo ?Dar Eldifa El Gawi? and in Sydney when I arrived, but I careless about all these facial protocols, I were legal husband and wife and our Kitab was witnessed by all family and friends in a small party, then we went on a cruise on the Nile, she was my wife Ala Sunnah Allah
Peace Brother
Likewise sister
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You haven't been ever married to one nor do you know more egyptian couples around you...right? ) 'cos otherwise you wouldn't say so I guess.
I agree
Egyptians are definititly very kind people (damhum chafeef!), but egyptian men yell to their wifes as much as other arab men cry .
I also agree lol but not me