What is the meaning of God alone Qur'an alone?

unknownuser

Sister Peacfulmuslim

I accept your interpetation to 3127, sounds very reasonable when compared to the arabic words, my only note I believe Kalimat Allah in the verse meant to be general Kalimat, i.e. facts, stories, wisdom, etc etc

By wisdom, I mean Truth, Knowledge and Reality of all times(that would include facts, stories(By stories, I guess u mean history))

sure it includes all what you listed in addition to history and possibly many other topics

we have no disagreement sister, it was just an extra bit of info

peace

mquran

Id understand God is one with or without Quran. It makes sense to me. It fits into all those questions that one has about creation and creator. And I can see/sense God's signs all round me. So, Even if there was no Quran, I would have believed God is one(btw, the idea was confirmed in previous scriptures as well). Quran is a good confirmation of the same. Quran is a confirmation of the truth that people failed to see. Quran is Gods message to people, spelling out truth.

Your statement was that it fit into 'all logic and reasoning'. Do you know how a logical deduction works?

If someone said God is good. There's evil in the world. A good God couldn't allow evil. Therefore there is no god. This a logical deduction. So no, it doesn't fit into 'all logic and reasoning'.

I understand this verse as follows
Allah is the most wise and all-knowing and if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Would u say , my understanding of that verse is wrong?

No, but to fit 'kalimah' into other bits of wisdom is a stretch. Kalimah of Allah are his concepts and fully explained in the verse you very nicely omitted (6/115)

None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

just because it is not in The Quran does not void it's Truth... this statement rings Truth on many.... many levels...

i'm not sure who said this above statement.. as the grapevine is not a "proven" science... however it's thought that the Prophet Muhammad has said it... but does it matter..?

AL-quraan clearly defines who an al-mumin is (9/111 for example) and 'wishing for his brother' isn't part of the criteria. So yes, it does matter. I'd rather stick to the book , thanks.

isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

What makes something 'evident' ?

unknownuser

I understand this verse as follows
Allah is the most wise and all-knowing and if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.
Would u say , my understanding of that verse is wrong?

No, but to fit 'kalimah' into other bits of wisdom is a stretch. Kalimah of Allah are his concepts and fully explained in the verse you very nicely omitted (6/115)

What according to u is kalimah? And what is ur understanding of the verse 3127?
Peace!

mquran

hope this helps..

It doesn't . A picture with a caption on the internet. How is that self-evident?

Also, what is your response to the mumin comment? Al-quraan has given a criteria for what a mumin is, but you choose to add to that criteria.

mquran

Mehdi, do you know how to conduct a discussion?

You said 'truth is self-evident'. Im asking you now, how does that picture you posted make something 'self-evident' ?

response to what? you just stated an opionon...

Well, its a verifiable fact that al-quraan has criteria for being a mumin.

Its also a verifiable fact that this criteria doesnt include your comment.

Its another verifiable that al-quraan doesn't allow for external sources to intrude upon the explanation of its concepts.

Make a deduction with these facts or refute them.

unknownuser

Hi mquran,

I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

Is my statement true or false?
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?

mquran

doesn't the picture speak for itself? the picture is self evident...

Self-evident of WHAT ? What is the quality of being 'self-evident?

my deduction is simple... you use your own opinions on the Quran, which is fine, except you try (through your own way) to force your opinions onto other people.. then when that doesn't work out for you... you try and drag folks into arguments about the Quran by splitting translations...

Mehdi, I don't care what people think or if people agree. What I do ask for is if people enter discussions, they follow through. You simply do not address my points. I have shown you why your saying doesn't fit the Quranic world view. I accept that I could be wrong but please SHOW ME HOW. If you cannot, that's fine. If my deductions are wrong, SHOW ME PLEASE. I want to be corrected because I'd like to have the most correct view possible.

but those who understand know that there is no need to argue the Quran and that really pisses you off...

Al-quraan is a text which is meant to be understood and to do this, some debates may be necessary. Of course, some people like yourself turn it into your usual ego-tripping and get offended when the Quran doesn't support your views. I don't get pissed off with empty vessels like you, but I do wonder at myself for responding. I should know better.

unknownuser

You said 'truth is self-evident'. Im asking you now, how does that picture you posted make something 'self-evident' ?

One can hypotheise that DEMOCRACY IS THE RULE OF MAJORITY from that picture perhaps? Just like you can hypothesise the meaning of a verse from the context of the quranic verses in a paragraph?....

some food for thought....

Regards,

mquran

Mehdi, I'm not playing your game. To me , a bidimensional picture says nothing until the perciever projects a meaning unto it. If you think otherwise, thats fine.

mquran

so please think when you feel so sure about your understanding of the Quran when you try and argue it onto another... or when you call folks kafir over your own meaning of the Quran you are projecting only your perception onto another... your opionon of onto another.. when the Truth is Evident... there is no argument...

I understand where you're coming from but I think you fail to take into account a few things

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.
Al-quraan has a systematic way of projecting meaning unto its text. After doing so, we can even check if our meaning is correct via its measurement of total consistency. This is why I keep asking you to bring a verse to the discussion. If my view is wrong, the verse you bring will prove it.
To judge someone as 'kafir' isnt necessarily pejorative. Your actions on the other thread showed me you weren't after a civilised discussion. My judgement therefore was necessary for me to identify you as someone whom I cannot have a discussion with. Its a protection mechanism, not a racial classification as per sunnism. The second you change your posture and discuss constructively and civilly, the judgement changes.

mquran

i disagree with you.. but understand that it is only your opionon... and you're entitled to it..

Ok, that's fine. Would you care to tell me where I've gone wrong?

mquran

not only physical...

1. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah , without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them

Read what I said again please

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.

The ayat you posted has no relevance to what I just said. My assertion is about al-quraan's objective truth, not about Allah's bounties.

Do you feel al-quraan's truth is subjective? If so, kindly provide your evidence.

if you go through my posts you'll see that i do bring verses.. however i don't argue them.. why? simply because the "systematic way of projecting meaning unto it's text"... is one perception.. one way of looking at it... perhaps your way... as you said

Ok, so what is your opinion on the matter? Does al-quraan simply allow any and all interpretations without any interference? If so, why are sunni interpretations glaringly false in general?

you appear to live in a black and white world.. i understand this world by means of the beuty in which "absolution" brings from the absolute...

Ah beautiful. Evidence please?

your views are contradicting... simply shows that the physical realm which we live in.. this Dunya.. is much more than just black and white... even if you refer it to the "this is what democracy looks like" flyer i posted...

it is much more than... you either do it like mquran says.. or you suck! you know?

Hmm, you're comparing a poster to the book of Allah? Gosh. And btw, I ask for evidence. I could be wrong in my views and am willing to reposition myself but I have to see evidence. I havent seen you address my points much. Of course thats your right to miss the point but do inform me because I dont like wasting my time.

as i said.. you appear to jump the gun.. and pre-judge.. your juegement of me being a kafir... and your actions of judging as such.. only tells more of who and where mquran comes from.. than of m. mehdi..

How is that a PRE-judgement ? You acted first and then I decided how to percieve you. I wouldnt have decided that if you didn't act in that way. So how is it a PRE-judgement?

mquran

once again.. thank you for your opinion... and showing yourself.. i believe the verses i posted and insha-Allah will post have great relevance... at least for me

but alas, what does it matter which verse or not i post for 'you' if whatever i post is of no relevance to you...? and since i will not 'argue' the Quran...

Absolutely fine. Thanks for proving the depth of your research.

might as well post about weenies

You certainly have an immersive understanding of the concept.

Omeiza

Dear mquran.

Please answer the following questions according to your understanding of the Qur'an.

Does faith make a Muslim to love another Muslim?

Can a Muslim who does not love another Muslim like himself be considered to have a perfect faith?

Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim

"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

"Is my statement true or false?
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

Peace

mquran

Does faith make a Muslim to love another Muslim?

From what I see of the ayaat, no.

Can a Muslim who does not love another Muslim like himself be considered to have a perfect faith?

Perfect faith? Can you give me the Quranic equivalent phrase?

Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim

"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

"Is my statement true or false?

It is true given that that is all the information.

And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

No, I wouldn't.

And if you wish to continue our discussion, here are my questions

What is the point of the above example.
What is the subject matter of al-quraan

thank you.

mquran

Mehdi it appear that you want for me to understand your point of view, and from me to you ... likewise

Not really. God already told me that guys like you can't (7/179) but I only just realised it now. So to stop wasting my time would be good enough.

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,

Quote
Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim
"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'
"Is my statement true or false?

It is true given that that is all the information.

Quote
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

No, I wouldn't.
And if you wish to continue our discussion, here are my questions

What is the point of the above example.
What is the subject matter of al-quraan

Here's the answer
isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

Quran is God's direct message/guidance to mankind. But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false.

What is 'truth' ? Please define how you would determine a 'truth' ?

Truth is something that?s true and real, that fits into logic and reasoning, and again stands the test.

isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

What makes something 'evident' ?

Hope u got ur answer that truth is self evident. Coz u didnt require anybody to prove to u that 'internet enables us to communicate with people of different parts of the world'. U could urself accept it as true, since it is true.

The second point of our discussion being that
But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false

Allah is the most knowledgable and the most wise.
All the information, knowledge and wisdom that man has attained is from Allah. Without His will and favour, we could not have learnt anything. All the discoveries that man has made comes from Allah too.
The wisdom and knowledge of Allah is not confined to the chapters of Quran alone. Its everywhere. We would learn/attain knowledge and wisdom until the day we die, and it would still be like a drop in an ocean, for the wisdom/knowledge is so vast.

So, to refute anything(true, good, righteous) that is not mentioned in Quran would be denying Allah's sign too.
Allah's knowledge and wisdom is so vast that if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

Peace!

mquran

Here's the answer
isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

So the answer to 'what is the subject matter of al-quraan' is 'isnt truth usually self-evident' ?

Wonderful. I'll wait for Omeiza to answer if its all the same to you.

Hope u got ur answer that truth is self evident. Coz u didnt require anybody to prove to u that 'internet enables us to communicate with people of different parts of the world'. U could urself accept it as true, since it is true

PM, do you know what an ASSERTION is? You gave an assertion 'the internet bla bla'. That's an authenticatable assertion. It is falsifiable by virtue of experience. How do you check your 'universal wisdom' ?

Allah is the most knowledgable and the most wise.
All the information, knowledge and wisdom that man has attained is from Allah. Without His will and favour, we could not have learnt anything. All the discoveries that man has made comes from Allah too.
The wisdom and knowledge of Allah is not confined to the chapters of Quran alone. Its everywhere. We would learn/attain knowledge and wisdom until the day we die, and it would still be like a drop in an ocean, for the wisdom/knowledge is so vast.

So, to refute anything(true, good, righteous) that is not mentioned in Quran would be denying Allah's sign too.
Allah's knowledge and wisdom is so vast that if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

Is al-quraan your criteria or not ? Lets stick to this simple question.

Omeiza

Dear mquran.

The subject matter of the Qur'an is human being precisely the HEART.

What do you say?

Peace

mquran

The subject matter of the Qur'an is human being precisely the HEART.

What do you say?

I'd agree to the 'human being' if you annotate being with mankinds situation in the world. As for the 'heart', I disagree because in the world-view of al-quraan, the heart is only one of the components.

Ok, does al-quraan say all we need to know to be humans ?