What is the meaning of God alone Qur'an alone?

mquran

Mehdi, I'm not playing your game. To me , a bidimensional picture says nothing until the perciever projects a meaning unto it. If you think otherwise, thats fine.

mquran

so please think when you feel so sure about your understanding of the Quran when you try and argue it onto another... or when you call folks kafir over your own meaning of the Quran you are projecting only your perception onto another... your opionon of onto another.. when the Truth is Evident... there is no argument...

I understand where you're coming from but I think you fail to take into account a few things

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.
Al-quraan has a systematic way of projecting meaning unto its text. After doing so, we can even check if our meaning is correct via its measurement of total consistency. This is why I keep asking you to bring a verse to the discussion. If my view is wrong, the verse you bring will prove it.
To judge someone as 'kafir' isnt necessarily pejorative. Your actions on the other thread showed me you weren't after a civilised discussion. My judgement therefore was necessary for me to identify you as someone whom I cannot have a discussion with. Its a protection mechanism, not a racial classification as per sunnism. The second you change your posture and discuss constructively and civilly, the judgement changes.

mquran

i disagree with you.. but understand that it is only your opionon... and you're entitled to it..

Ok, that's fine. Would you care to tell me where I've gone wrong?

mquran

not only physical...

1. Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah , without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them

Read what I said again please

Al-quraan's field of effect is the physical realm. Its an objective truth which even disbelievers would admit to when their hour arrives. 10/90 is a good case in point where Firaun admits his belief, albeit when its too late.

The ayat you posted has no relevance to what I just said. My assertion is about al-quraan's objective truth, not about Allah's bounties.

Do you feel al-quraan's truth is subjective? If so, kindly provide your evidence.

if you go through my posts you'll see that i do bring verses.. however i don't argue them.. why? simply because the "systematic way of projecting meaning unto it's text"... is one perception.. one way of looking at it... perhaps your way... as you said

Ok, so what is your opinion on the matter? Does al-quraan simply allow any and all interpretations without any interference? If so, why are sunni interpretations glaringly false in general?

you appear to live in a black and white world.. i understand this world by means of the beuty in which "absolution" brings from the absolute...

Ah beautiful. Evidence please?

your views are contradicting... simply shows that the physical realm which we live in.. this Dunya.. is much more than just black and white... even if you refer it to the "this is what democracy looks like" flyer i posted...

it is much more than... you either do it like mquran says.. or you suck! you know?

Hmm, you're comparing a poster to the book of Allah? Gosh. And btw, I ask for evidence. I could be wrong in my views and am willing to reposition myself but I have to see evidence. I havent seen you address my points much. Of course thats your right to miss the point but do inform me because I dont like wasting my time.

as i said.. you appear to jump the gun.. and pre-judge.. your juegement of me being a kafir... and your actions of judging as such.. only tells more of who and where mquran comes from.. than of m. mehdi..

How is that a PRE-judgement ? You acted first and then I decided how to percieve you. I wouldnt have decided that if you didn't act in that way. So how is it a PRE-judgement?

mquran

once again.. thank you for your opinion... and showing yourself.. i believe the verses i posted and insha-Allah will post have great relevance... at least for me

but alas, what does it matter which verse or not i post for 'you' if whatever i post is of no relevance to you...? and since i will not 'argue' the Quran...

Absolutely fine. Thanks for proving the depth of your research.

might as well post about weenies

You certainly have an immersive understanding of the concept.

Omeiza

Dear mquran.

Please answer the following questions according to your understanding of the Qur'an.

Does faith make a Muslim to love another Muslim?

Can a Muslim who does not love another Muslim like himself be considered to have a perfect faith?

Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim

"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

"Is my statement true or false?
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

Peace

mquran

Does faith make a Muslim to love another Muslim?

From what I see of the ayaat, no.

Can a Muslim who does not love another Muslim like himself be considered to have a perfect faith?

Perfect faith? Can you give me the Quranic equivalent phrase?

Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim

"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'

"Is my statement true or false?

It is true given that that is all the information.

And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

No, I wouldn't.

And if you wish to continue our discussion, here are my questions

What is the point of the above example.
What is the subject matter of al-quraan

thank you.

mquran

Mehdi it appear that you want for me to understand your point of view, and from me to you ... likewise

Not really. God already told me that guys like you can't (7/179) but I only just realised it now. So to stop wasting my time would be good enough.

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,

Quote
Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim
"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'
"Is my statement true or false?

It is true given that that is all the information.

Quote
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

No, I wouldn't.
And if you wish to continue our discussion, here are my questions

What is the point of the above example.
What is the subject matter of al-quraan

Here's the answer
isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

Quran is God's direct message/guidance to mankind. But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false.

What is 'truth' ? Please define how you would determine a 'truth' ?

Truth is something that?s true and real, that fits into logic and reasoning, and again stands the test.

isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

What makes something 'evident' ?

Hope u got ur answer that truth is self evident. Coz u didnt require anybody to prove to u that 'internet enables us to communicate with people of different parts of the world'. U could urself accept it as true, since it is true.

The second point of our discussion being that
But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false

Allah is the most knowledgable and the most wise.
All the information, knowledge and wisdom that man has attained is from Allah. Without His will and favour, we could not have learnt anything. All the discoveries that man has made comes from Allah too.
The wisdom and knowledge of Allah is not confined to the chapters of Quran alone. Its everywhere. We would learn/attain knowledge and wisdom until the day we die, and it would still be like a drop in an ocean, for the wisdom/knowledge is so vast.

So, to refute anything(true, good, righteous) that is not mentioned in Quran would be denying Allah's sign too.
Allah's knowledge and wisdom is so vast that if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

Peace!

mquran

Here's the answer
isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

So the answer to 'what is the subject matter of al-quraan' is 'isnt truth usually self-evident' ?

Wonderful. I'll wait for Omeiza to answer if its all the same to you.

Hope u got ur answer that truth is self evident. Coz u didnt require anybody to prove to u that 'internet enables us to communicate with people of different parts of the world'. U could urself accept it as true, since it is true

PM, do you know what an ASSERTION is? You gave an assertion 'the internet bla bla'. That's an authenticatable assertion. It is falsifiable by virtue of experience. How do you check your 'universal wisdom' ?

Allah is the most knowledgable and the most wise.
All the information, knowledge and wisdom that man has attained is from Allah. Without His will and favour, we could not have learnt anything. All the discoveries that man has made comes from Allah too.
The wisdom and knowledge of Allah is not confined to the chapters of Quran alone. Its everywhere. We would learn/attain knowledge and wisdom until the day we die, and it would still be like a drop in an ocean, for the wisdom/knowledge is so vast.

So, to refute anything(true, good, righteous) that is not mentioned in Quran would be denying Allah's sign too.
Allah's knowledge and wisdom is so vast that if He decided to pen down all that he knew (wisdom), He would have so much words that 3127 And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing) for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom.

Is al-quraan your criteria or not ? Lets stick to this simple question.

Omeiza

Dear mquran.

The subject matter of the Qur'an is human being precisely the HEART.

What do you say?

Peace

mquran

The subject matter of the Qur'an is human being precisely the HEART.

What do you say?

I'd agree to the 'human being' if you annotate being with mankinds situation in the world. As for the 'heart', I disagree because in the world-view of al-quraan, the heart is only one of the components.

Ok, does al-quraan say all we need to know to be humans ?

Omeiza

The subject matter of the Qur'an is human being precisely the HEART.

What do you say?

I'd agree to the 'human being' if you annotate being with mankinds situation in the world. As for the 'heart', I disagree because in the world-view of al-quraan, the heart is only one of the components.

Ok, does al-quraan say all we need to know to be humans ?

I do not understand what you mean by the phrase "if you annotate being with mankinds situation in the world" Could you please explain further?

Thanks for your patience.

mquran

I do not understand what you mean by the phrase "if you annotate being with mankinds situation in the world" Could you please explain further?

You say al-quraan is about human beings. I say, ok, if by 'being' you mean thier situation in the world, I agree.

So back to the question Ok, does al-quraan say all we need to know to be humans ?

Omeiza

My dear brother mquran!

The subject matter of the Qur'an according to you is the situation of humankind/mankind on earth.

The situation of humankind is determined by the motivating factor of life - the heart.

It is by the heart that we love and hate. It is by the heart that we desire and therefore engage in a voluntary activity.

Our activity is responsible for our situation in the world - let us change our heart and our situation will equally change.

Is it not true that the best of us is the one that returns to Allah with the best heart?

Is worship other than expression of love? Is love not the basis of our life activities?

How is it possible for a person who intensively loves Allah not to love what Allah loves? What is the meaning of getting nearer to Allah then?

Don't you consider it a natual process for a Mumin to love another Mumin? Please refer to the case of the Ansar and the Muhajirun.

Peace.

Omeiza

So back to the question Ok, does al-quraan say all we need to know to be humans ?

All that a human being is required to know is what is beneficial to the heart.

What we call meaning/benefit is with regards to the heart. We are convinced when the heart is comfortable.

Qur'an gives the basic ideas while all the other things in the world add to the explanation.

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,

Quote
Then how do you respond to the following question from peacefulmuslim
"I say ' Internet enables one to communicate with people living in different parts of the world'
"Is my statement true or false?

It is true given that that is all the information.

Quote
And Would u ask for an evidence of my statement from Quran?"

No, I wouldn't.
And if you wish to continue our discussion, here are my questions

What is the point of the above example.

Here's the answer
isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

Quran is God's direct message/guidance to mankind. But all other forms of goodness, knowledge, wisdom outside Quran is from Allah too. If Quran doesnt mention meditation is good, drinking 8 glasses of water a day is good, it doesnt make all these acts sinful. We need to use logic, reasoning and sense to understand reality and truth. We cant blindly refute anything not mentioned in the Quran as false.

What is 'truth' ? Please define how you would determine a 'truth' ?

Truth is something that?s true and real, that fits into logic and reasoning, and again stands the test.

isn't Truth (usually) Self Evident... ?

What makes something 'evident' ?

Hope u got ur answer that truth is self evident. Coz u didnt require anybody to prove to u that 'internet enables us to communicate with people of different parts of the world'. U could urself accept it as true, since it is true.

So the answer to 'what is the subject matter of al-quraan' is 'isnt truth usually self-evident' ?

Either u practise selective reading or whatever.
So, here it is, once again, for u to understand what I meant.

PM, do you know what an ASSERTION is? You gave an assertion 'the internet bla bla'. That's an authenticatable assertion. It is falsifiable by virtue of experience. How do you check your 'universal wisdom' ?

And btw, that is what everyone here is trying to tell u. That there are truths/wisdom/knowledge outside Quran which can be recognised and understood. 'Universal wisdom' would also be one thats true.
Here's one

And in the end it's not the years in your life that count. It is the life in your years.
-Abraham Lincoln

True, aint it?

If driving a car or how to drive a car is not mentioned in Quran, that doesnt make it wrong/sinful, does it?

Peace !
And good luck with ur quest!
There is no point in arguing for the sake of an argument.
Peace!

mquran

The subject matter of the Qur'an according to you is the situation of humankind/mankind on earth.

That's my opinion based on my reading of al-quraan, yes.

The situation of humankind is determined by the motivating factor of life - the heart.

That's your opinion. Evidence from al-quraan please?

It is by the heart that we love and hate. It is by the heart that we desire and therefore engage in a voluntary activity.

That's your opinion. Evidence from al-quraan please?

Our activity is responsible for our situation in the world - let us change our heart and our situation will equally change.

That's your opinion. Evidence from al-quraan please?

Is it not true that the best of us is the one that returns to Allah with the best heart?

I don't know, I'll need to see evidence from al-quraan.

Is worship other than expression of love? Is love not the basis of our life activities?

I don't know, I'll need to see evidence from al-quraan.

How is it possible for a person who intensively loves Allah not to love what Allah loves? What is the meaning of getting nearer to Allah then?

Since the entire set of ideas above are unproven, this question is meaningless.

Don't you consider it a natual process for a Mumin to love another Mumin? Please refer to the case of the Ansar and the Muhajirun.

Mehdi said the followingNone of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

Al-quraan speaks voluminously on mumin,imaan etc yet nowhere does it say this. My question to you is, did Allah forget to ADD this criteria to HIS criteria?

All that a human being is required to know is what is beneficial to the heart.
What we call meaning/benefit is with regards to the heart. We are convinced when the heart is comfortable.

I don't know where you're getting these notions from. Al-quraan has a concept called 'fee qulubihim maradhan' (in thier hearts is disease). These are the people who can't even hear warnings from Allah.

Qur'an gives the basic ideas while all the other things in the world add to the explanation.

BASIC ideas ? Please tell me where al-quraan says this 'basic ideas'.

Omeiza, I would suggest you start using al-quraan in your responses. So far, none of your opinions are in concordance with the book. If such is your regard for al-quraan, then really I dont see the point in continuing this discussion.

mquran

Peaceful MuslimAnd btw, that is what everyone here is trying to tell u. That there are truths/wisdom/knowledge outside Quran which can be recognised and understood. 'Universal wisdom' would also be one thats true.

Ok, once again and hopefully for the last time, how will you VERIFY something as wise? Would you use al-quraan to verify it or not ? If not, would you mind stating so so that I needn't waste my time?

mquran

Mehdino, why would you speak of Allah in such a way.. as to say "did Allah forget to ADD etc. etc. "

love, it's not Allah that forgets.. Allah is perfect... but you/we are not... perhaps you forgot the meaning of the saying, is all... simple...

look nobody is "forcing" to love your brothers and sisters..sheesh...

but please... remember that! next time you call one of them kafir etc. etc. etc. when your deductions don't from a place of Love... they don't come from much...

Mr Mehdi, its best for you to stick to your capacity for cut and paste and your inane humour. You have failed to understand the point of the argument.

I'd like to see evidence of this from al-quraan. I have studied imaan and mumin and nowhere have I found this None of you believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself." As far as I can see, this statement is false. If Im wrong, please bring forward evidence and oh Mr Mehdi, doing a word search on 'believer' and quoting the first verse you see is not a response. Kindly address the point if you want to, not that I expect you to.

And oh, I never called PM and Omeiza kafir because unlike you, they didn't come here to make weenies out of people. You have, by your own admission, come here for that. Further, nowhere does al-quraan say to call 'al-kafiroon' from a place of love. This is once again your attempt to blur al-quraan with your own ideas.