Punishment for the unchaste:lashes,confinement or 4giveness?

agentxxx

peace saladin,
thank you for your explanations
you wrote

415 is about lewdness(faahisha) among women (lesbianism)

let see what brother Ahmed has to say about you defination )
take care.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed,
i agree with most of your explanation my friend and i am thankful to you )

Cool bro

no worries

you wrote

please note that verse 416 is talking about a man and a woman, NOT and I stress NOT 2 men

most of the translations i have talk about two men??

They are wrong then mate, because the clear arabic context sugests it is a man and a woman

you wrote in the end

so it is all about protecting the women my friend

here i will disagree by saying its all about dominating the women wink

take care.

The way it is practiced by the faulty men is giving that wrong impression of dominating the women

you see most men consipre directly or indirectly to dominate the women and this has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion for that matter, it is all man made and manipulations

peace

Elke

Peace all,

ahmed wrote
as well under the laws of Allah, it seems He allowed the husband to hit his wife lightly in case she commits any other ill conduct
and
so it is all about protecting the women

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

Even children, above a certain age where light slaps can put limits - as long as they are too young to understand the parents logic, have to be talked to instead of slapped. I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way wink and the relationship wouldn't get any better because the man did not respect me as his equal. Now sure there are some sick relations out there where the woman seems to long for punishment, but that's just what they are to me - sick relations, sick people. A sain man would rather get out of a relationship than to be tempted to hit his partner. Yes ok i am a feminist - in the sense of equality, not of being above men. As you said, ahmed, it seems the gods law allowed wife beating... Did you read the article aboutt daraba and its multiple meanings?

Peace, lk

agentxxx

peace elke,
you wrote

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

absolutely right wink

I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way

I am a man and I would not accept my father hitting my mother, neither would I accept my brother in law hitting my sister, nor my son in law hitting my daughter.I would also not accept my brother hitting my sister in law or my son hitting my daughter in law.
take care.

unknownuser

Peace all,

ahmed wrote
as well under the laws of Allah, it seems He allowed the husband to hit his wife lightly in case she commits any other ill conduct
and
so it is all about protecting the women

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

Even children, above a certain age where light slaps can put limits - as long as they are too young to understand the parents logic, have to be talked to instead of slapped. I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way wink and the relationship wouldn't get any better because the man did not respect me as his equal. Now sure there are some sick relations out there where the woman seems to long for punishment, but that's just what they are to me - sick relations, sick people. A sain man would rather get out of a relationship than to be tempted to hit his partner. Yes ok i am a feminist - in the sense of equality, not of being above men. As you said, ahmed, it seems the gods law allowed wife beating... Did you read the article aboutt daraba and its multiple meanings?

Peace, lk

Hello Elka

if you read the verse you will see that hitting her was the third option the husband was entitked to use for a wife who insist on ill conducts,

now for me I see it as lawfull for the husband who still love his ill conducted wife and wants to keep her as a wife "if she desires so" but she insist on the ill conduct, like stealing for example

howeverI wave that right for me and if my wife commit ill conduct and insist on it after I exhaust the first two options mentioned in the verse, then my third option will be the highway for her and will be replaced with a better and respectful woman

peace

unknownuser

peace elke,
you wrote

I don't believe hitting even slightly is a solution to a couples problem. Protecting the women would have been a verse that forbids wife beating...

absolutely right wink

I'm a woman, i wouldn't accept a man to hit me. I would hit back by the way

I am a man and I would not accept my father hitting my mother, neither would I accept my brother in law hitting my sister, nor my son in law hitting my daughter.I would also not accept my brother hitting my sister in law or my son hitting my daughter in law.
take care.

Hello bro

I also donlt expect that your mother will be invloved in ill conduct as well ignores your father advice to her

you guys drive me crazy, the cause for the hitting was mentioned in the verse, A WIFE WITH ILL CONDUCT

thanks

unknownuser

Ilka

please pass me a link to this article I would like to read it

thanks

Elke

peace ahmed

howeverI wave that right for me and if my wife commit ill conduct and insist on it after I exhaust the first two options mentioned in the verse, then my third option will be the highway for her and will be replaced with a better and respectful woman

sage decision!

btw,my name is elke, even though most people pronounce elka (since i've lived in egypt actually they did everything to me elk, elkee, ilka ellaka,... - and that's where you come from isn't it ?) wink

and here is the link
http//www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm

peace lk

agentxxx

peace Ahmed,
you wrote

Hello bro

I also donlt expect that your mother will be invloved in ill conduct as well ignores your father advice to her
you guys drive me crazy, the cause for the hitting was mentioned in the verse, A WIFE WITH ILL CONDUCT

cooooooool it bro lol
my father is her husband and not her master, under no circumstances he should hit her. there are better way to resolve such matters.
regards.

unknownuser

Hi guys,
I agree with those who say 'beating up one's wife is wrong, no matter what'.
Men and woman are human beings in their own right. Just becoz, Men are physically powerful over women, they have no right to physically abuse women on any account. Even if the woman in question, is at fault. There are loads of ways to solve problems. Physical violence is not the answer.

If man is supposed to use 'physical violence' as a last resort to correct his wife, who has sinned, what about men who sin(and in most of the cases, its men who sin)? Are women allowed to beat them too?

Imajine, if woman was as or more physically powerful than man, would this question even arise? A woman would propably knock down a man who tries to hit her or even suggests it. If women were stronger, would man even dare to hit her?. So, merely becoz men are more physically strong, they should not abuse it over woman.

Peace!

Elena

Peace Ahmed,

now for me I see it as lawfull for the husband who still love his ill conducted wife and wants to keep her as a wife

yeah, hitting her, very loving act... shock

agentxxx

peace peacefulmuslim,
you wrote

what about men who sin(and in most of the cases, its men who sin)? Are women allowed to beat them too?

I would say yes, same punishment for men too
confine them to houses until death do claim them, Refuse to share their beds, Beat them, wink and you are absolutely right in most of the cases its men who sin.

Imajine, if woman was as or more physically powerful than man, would this question even arise? A woman would propably knock down a man who tries to hit her or even suggests it. If women were stronger, would man even dare to hit her?. So, merely becoz men are more physically strong, they should not abuse it over woman.

you have said it all D
peace

NoProgressive

AgentXXX,

salam,
Sura-4 (Al-Nisa)
15?If any of your women are guilty of lewdness take the evidence of four (reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify confine them to houses until death do claim them or
Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

You are taking one aspect of that verse. You are forggeitng about the "or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.".... that obviously is hte forgiveness part (416) which applies to both men and women.

salaam

agentxxx

peace noprogressive,
you wrote

You are taking one aspect of that verse. You are forggeitng about the "or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.".... that obviously is hte forgiveness part (416) which applies to both men and women.

oops oops thanks for reminding me )
peace.

unknownuser

Well, step of your high horses guys & gals

I know a lot of women who also beat their husbands

we are even lol

also if in the middle east women are abused, in the western countries men are bloody more abused

you see if I work all my life and my wife was just sitting on her bum delivering an army of children, if we want divorce she will take all what I have made and worked hard all my life

far out this is the most horendous abuse men can get, starting again from zero

Conclusion

Men and Women are bloody abused by each other in differnt ways

Well done Satan, never fail to impress me

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed,

now for me I see it as lawfull for the husband who still love his ill conducted wife and wants to keep her as a wife

yeah, hitting her, very loving act... shock

Peace Elena

I guess so if done properly, i presume fathers and mothers also hit their ill conduct children

or you never did that?

peace

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

you see if I work all my life and my wife was just sitting on her bum delivering an army of children, if we want divorce she will take all what I have made and worked hard all my life

shock Giving birth to children and taking care of them is a HUGE responsibility.
And I am sure, she does chores at home too. And for all that she does for u, she really deserves something.

Well, anyways, peace.
I am assuming u said all that only to make an amusing statement and to call it truce. )

unknownuser

peace ahmed

howeverI wave that right for me and if my wife commit ill conduct and insist on it after I exhaust the first two options mentioned in the verse, then my third option will be the highway for her and will be replaced with a better and respectful woman

sage decision!

btw,my name is elke, even though most people pronounce elka (since i've lived in egypt actually they did everything to me elk, elkee, ilka ellaka,... - and that's where you come from isn't it ?) wink

and here is the link
http//www.free-minds.org/women/beating.htm

peace lk

sorry for spelling your name wrong sister "i will call you sister better"

yes I'm an egyptian and also walk like egyptians

peace

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

you see if I work all my life and my wife was just sitting on her bum delivering an army of children, if we want divorce she will take all what I have made and worked hard all my life

shock Giving birth to children and taking care of them is a HUGE responsibility.
And I am sure, she does chores at home too. And for all that she does for u, she really deserves something.

Well, anyways, peace.
I am assuming u said all that only to make an amusing statement and to call it truce. )

that is what happened to my very rich brother in law

his aussie wife took evertything because she had 4 kids from him and he started from under zero again

peace

Fahad1

please note that verse 416 is talking about a man and a woman, NOT and I stress NOT 2 men

salam.
415 is about women(lesbians) and 416 about men(gays). they commit lewdness , what the people of Lut used to commit .

my 2 cents .