The nature of inspiration - the "voice" of the God
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The journey is symbolic and metaphoric...watch for the symbols and metaphors
Great, but WHERE is it ? Muhammad is mentioned in 3/144, 48/29, 47/2 and 33/40 and I cant find no journeyin' !
I am sure you will figure it out -)
The answer is staring at you....Regards,
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Peace All,
Truth, I agree with your analysis completely. Thanks for putting the research together. Understanding 4251 has opened up a whole new world of knowledge for me this past year.
Ahmed, you stated
if I?m a believer in the Quran and Allah, will it make a difference if I know that Allah talked to His prophets directly, via inspirations or via a messenger?
For a believer and logically speaking, it should not make the slightest of difference
I think it does make a difference in that believing that God only communicated with a chosen few leaves you out of the loop. It impedes your own potential, causing one to never truly appreciate their own connectedness to the universe, their own divinity.
The metaphoric understanding of many verses unlocks these mental barriers. The God is a constant, always there, ready and willing to talk to us.
To believe that God only talked to a Jew named Moses some 3000 years ago does not really accomplish anything. It's just a story. The moral God talked to Moses and gave him powers and strength and Moses fought the tyranny and freed his people only after God used some sorcery to open up the sea and swallow the bad guys.
How does that help us today?? Why doesn't God swallow up all the bad guys today??
Perhaps, in understanding that Moses was fulfilling his own potential, the same as we can, a more powerful lesson can be learned - one that can be implemented in each person's life - right now.
Peace,
Tay -
I am sure you will figure it out
The answer is staring at you....For a guy who wants to take us beyond religious constraints into his universalist humanism, you certainly are vague. You speak of 'lofty' human principles, so I wonder if being clear is part of your virtue system or not. Obfuscation is certainly no virture whether from a Quranic or a secular perspective.
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I am sure you will figure it out
The answer is staring at you....For a guy who wants to take us beyond religious constraints into his universalist humanism, you certainly are vague.
Into MY universalist humanism?
I thought you were the one who spoke of "What is good for MANKIND", "WHAT IS BEST FOR MANKIND"- were these empty words for you mquran?
Read Surah 53 and tell me what is the metaphoric and symbolic parts in that surah.
Regards,
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Peace be upon you,
There is no "Prophet Muhammd", so he did not go up , out , in , or anywhere D However, there is a statement that says The God saw "us" looking about the sky and directs us to the correct "qibla" which is the "place of hearing and obeying the restrictions". Musa was told to take his shoes off because the journey is WITHIN(Tuwa).
The God is talking to all of us right now! We just have to purify the NAFS so we can hear. D
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There is no "Prophet Muhammd", so he did not go up , out , in , or anywhere
No, Quran just popped into the vacuum of space and arab nomads stumbled on to it by chance wink
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
idolfree1 wrote
There is no "Prophet Muhammd", so he did not go up , out , in , or anywhereNo, Quran just popped into the vacuum of space and arab nomads stumbled on to it by chance
No, It was written by the hands of pious scribes. MU-hammadun is a description, not a proper name of a historical figure.
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LT No, Quran just popped into the vacuum of space and arab nomads stumbled on to it by chance
Aha, a glimpse of your 'objective instruments of analysis' are coming to disclosure now
Question how do you go about discovering the historicity of al-quraan?
Into MY universalist humanism?
I thought you were the one who spoke of "What is good for MANKIND", "WHAT IS BEST FOR MANKIND"- were these empty words for you mquran?
No they weren't. But I seek the best for humankind because it is al-haqq (see 13/17 for my definition). Its the objective truth, the ultimate truth. Its part of my service to Allah.
Read Surah 53 and tell me what is the metaphoric and symbolic parts in that surah.
Do you see the word 'muhammad' in chapter 53? Its talking about a living person now, not the Muhammad of history.
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There is no "Prophet Muhammd", so he did not go up , out , in , or anywhere
No, Quran just popped into the vacuum of space and arab nomads stumbled on to it by chance
No, It was written by the hands of pious scribes. MU-hammadun is a description, not a proper name of a historical figure.
So now the "Pious Scribes" concocted the Quran? There was no Prophet at all? What are you saying? Please elaborate!
Is Quran a work of a single man or Work of Mulitple hands?
Regards,
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Hello
My name is Ahmed
would that be a description not my name?
I'm really puzzled, I got to meet the parents and inquire with them why they named me a name that should not exist for real
peace
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Hello
My name is Ahmed
would that be a description not my name?I'm really puzzled, I got to meet the parents and inquire with them why they named me a name that should not exist for real
peaceYes, it is easy to play Word Games like this isn't it?
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
So now the "Pious Scribes" concocted the Quran? There was no Prophet at all? What are you saying? Please elaborate!
(8013-14) In honoured written pages/sheets. Raised, purified. By scribes'/writers' hands.
Yes, there was and always will be prophets, men who are inspired by the God and intuit the Divine Truths. These truths are written down by mens hands to be delivered to others. What I am saying is that the word "muhammad" is describing character, not the name of the actual prophet.
Is Quran a work of a single man or Work of Mulitple hands?
Id o not take the word "quran" to be the title of any book, but if you are referring to this book, then I am not sure how many hands were involved, I was not present, and no one else here was either so none of us has that answer.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
My name is Ahmed
would that be a description not my name?
In this context it would be your name. But when we are dealing with a message of behavior shaping, then the name of a person becomes meaningless. What guidance do we get from knowing the prophets proper name? So we can idolize him and do pilgrimmage to his grave?
But you are free to believe as you wish, there is no compulsion.
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
So now the "Pious Scribes" concocted the Quran? There was no Prophet at all? What are you saying? Please elaborate!
(8013-14) In honoured written pages/sheets. Raised, purified. By scribes'/writers' hands.
Yes, there was and always will be prophets, men who are inspired by the God and intuit the Divine Truths. These truths are written down by mens hands to be delivered to others.
I still don't understand - was the inspiration came from a single person and written by many hands? or many hands had the inspiration and many hands written it down?
Id o not take the word "quran" to be the title of any book, but if you are referring to this book, then I am not sure how many hands were involved
(8013-14) In honoured written pages/sheets. Raised, purified. By scribes'/writers' hands.
Why are you not sure? since you have quoted the verse above? It implies written by many hands does it not? so what there is not to be sure about?
I was not present, and no one else here was either so none of us has that answer.
I was not present when the dinosoaurs roamed the Earth, and yet we have their fossile records. I was not there when Hindenburgh caught fire and we have historical details. We have to work with all the things we have to find the truth be it be archeological scraps or some fossil dug up in a bog...Kyle we owe to ourselves to know the truth. We can't hide from the difficult questions, we must tackle them head on. By saying Muhammad is a descripton and not a name is not doing much, it is hiding from the truth...
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
I still don't understand - was the inspiration came from a single person and written by many hands? or many hands had the inspiration and many hands written it down?
I can only assume that the inspiration came to a single person and was later written by many (which would explain the slight difference in versions). We can verify even today that several people are still writing it down.
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Id o not take the word "quran" to be the title of any book, but if you are referring to this book, then I am not sure how many hands were involved(8013-14) In honoured written pages/sheets. Raised, purified. By scribes'/writers' hands.
Why are you not sure? since you have quoted the verse above? It implies written by many hands does it not? so what there is not to be sure about?
Well, reading a book does not give me certainty, it only gives me a direction to research. I dont take it as truth just because someone wrote it. Verification is the only way to certainty. That being said, I do verify today that several hands continue to write this message.
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I was not present, and no one else here was either so none of us has that answer.I was not present when the dinosoaurs roamed the Earth, and yet we have their fossile records.
Yes, objective evidence (Seeing vs hearing)
I was not there when Hindenburgh caught fire and we have historical details.
I dont know much about that, but if there is observable evidence then good, if just word of mouth, no good.
We have to work with all the things we have to find the truth be it be archeological scraps or some fossil dug up in a bog...Kyle we owe to ourselves to know the truth. We can't hide from the difficult questions, we must tackle them head on. By saying Muhammad is a descripton and not a name is not doing much, it is hiding from the truth...
You are free to believe that, but I must challenge that every time because there is no evidence to support that. Becoming "muhammadun" serves as a far better guide than blindly believing in someones proper name. We might as well believe in Santa Claus to avoid "hiding from the truth".
I understand this is difficult for some, but this is how things have been done since ancient times, symbolism. Natural events being personified into stories.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
My name is Ahmed
would that be a description not my name?
I have something I want you to read
(616) ...and an announcer of good news with a messenger (that) comes from after me, his name (is) Ahmad ."
So is it "muhammadun" or is it "ahmad"? And is it a name or a description?
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
My name is Ahmed
would that be a description not my name?
In this context it would be your name. But when we are dealing with a message of behavior shaping, then the name of a person becomes meaningless. What guidance do we get from knowing the prophets proper name? So we can idolize him and do pilgrimmage to his grave?
But you are free to believe as you wish, there is no compulsion.
ok bro I read your other comment and I would say the above comment is your last to me as you stated in another thread
well if the context means my name, then the context of the Quran means Mohammad was a name for a person that person is a prophet and even one sura called "Mohammad" as well his name is written in the bible
peace
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Shalom Kyle,
Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
I still don't understand - was the inspiration came from a single person and written by many hands? or many hands had the inspiration and many hands written it down?
I can only assume that the inspiration came to a single person and was later written by many (which would explain the slight difference in versions). We can verify even today that several people are still writing it down.
This is better. This is more logical. This is in accordance with evidence from "non-muslims" sources that have recorded a certain person preaching the authentic religion of Abraham in that time period. The slight differences in the text has been noted in coins dating from that era. Even the Dome of the Rock bears inscription which is slighly different from that is recorded in scripture.
Well, reading a book does not give me certainty, it only gives me a direction to research. I dont take it as truth just because someone wrote it. Verification is the only way to certainty.
That is fine. But when you start to say scripture is written by hands of scribes and Muhammad is a description and not a name, this not verifying but denying possible truth of the matter.
You are free to believe that, but I must challenge that every time because there is no evidence to support that.
But when you say Muhammad is a description is not a name then you are not challenging anything. You are playing with words.
Becoming "muhammadun" serves as a far better guide than blindly believing in someones proper name.
That was not the point. My point was about finding finding the truth. We owe to ourselves to find the Truth from whatever scraps of information we have from fossils to archelogoical scatches on stones. Truth serves us a better guide. Finding the Truth about Dinosaurs roaming the earth millions of years ago is very important guide to humanity. It tells us we have a very long evolutionary past. Our whole frame of thinking changes. This is what Truth serves us. Truth itself is the Guide...
We might as well believe in Santa Claus to avoid "hiding from the truth".
But saying "Santa Claus" is a description and not a name is indeed "hiding from the Truth".
I understand this is difficult for some, but this is how things have been done since ancient times, symbolism. Natural events being personified into stories.
I understand symbolism very well. I am a poet. But even Symbolism should not stop us from gleaming the the truth from all availalable sources...symbolism should not stop us from looking for the fossils...
Regards,
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Peace be upon you Ahmed and Lote tree,
Brothers, I think both of you have forgotten to address this post so I will repeat it here
(616) ...and an announcer of good news with a messenger (that) comes from after me, his name (is) Ahmad ."
So is it "muhammadun" or is it "ahmad"? And is it a name or a description?