Is Quran anti- secular?

unknownuser

Hi Mquran,
I didnt obviously mean 'dont kill' , 'dont cheat' laws. These are values, that any human, irrespective of any religion can realise and understand.

How about lashing for adultery? What if the christians in the country do not relate to it?Would the law apply to them as well?

What about marriage and divorce laws? What rules will be followed for the christians? the ones mentioned in Quran(which they dont believe and accept) or seperate rules for them, according to their beliefs?

Jaxal

SALaM PM

Excellent question. Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country.

mquran

I didnt obviously mean 'dont kill' , 'dont cheat' laws. These are values, that any human, irrespective of any religion can realise and understand.

These are laws in the Quran though. If you don't take them as 'religious', thats fine.

How about lashing for adultery? What if the christians in the country do not relate to it?Would the law apply to them as well?

If they dont relate to it, they shouldnt have sex in the public space like animals. If they do, its not a personal thing anymore , is it ? Obviously, adultery and fornication in thier own space is thier (as with anyone else's) own affair.

What about marriage and divorce laws? What rules will be followed for the christians? the ones mentioned in Quran(which they dont believe and accept) or seperate rules for them, according to their beliefs?

There's no 'qisas' for marriage and divorce laws, i.e. whether you follow or not, there's no punishement stipulated unless of course, you cheat someone using marriage as a scam. If a marriage and divorce is straightfoward, there's no qisas or equal retribution.

unknownuser

Hi Jaxal,

SALaM PM

Excellent question. Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country.

I honestly wanted to know what everyone out here thinks on this subject.

I lived all my life in India. And I am sooo glad its a secular government and not a religious government (would be hindu government since they are the majority). If it was a religious government and muslims had to follow their religious laws, even if we dont believe it, it would be unfair, wouldnt it? Say, they followed crude laws like burning widows(sati) etc and if all people living in the country were forced to follow it?
I am glad the people and the country chose a secular government where everyone is equal and we follow laws that are just to humanity in general, not taking into consideration any specific religion and religious beliefs.
The same can be said for UK, America etc, isnt it?

mquran

I honestly wanted to know what everyone out here thinks on this subject
.

I didnt bother answering because this person generally doesn't know what he's saying and can't answer a question to save his life but if you want, I can deconstruct the sentence for you.

I lived all my life in India. And I am sooo glad its a secular government and not a religious government (would be hindu government since they are the majority). If it was a religious government and muslims had to follow their religious laws, even if we dont believe it, it would be unfair, wouldnt it?

The Quran isnt a comparison for this. In an islamic domain, anyone can perform any religious rituals as they so choose. However, ppl are bound by Quranic laws which one might call 'civil' instead of 'religious'. I caution against the use of both terms. Al-quraan gives laws, period. They dont have anything to do with your rituals.

I am glad the people and the country chose a secular government where everyone is equal and we follow laws that are just to humanity in general, not taking into consideration any specific religion.
The same can be said for UK, America etc, isnt it?

Does al-quraan propagate a religion to you ? If so, I'd urge you to read al-quraan thoroughly and see where it preaches a 'religious' government.

Jaxal

The only thing i need to know regarding you is that ur the kind of man who cant keep his marriage together. The rest, as 7 of 9 says, is irrelevant.

SaLaM PM

What you say is right. Even the indians have enough sense not to run their country using religion. IT has already excelled pakistan in nearly all ways.

unknownuser

Obviously, adultery and fornication in thier own space is thier (as with anyone else's) own affair.

So, according to u, there would be no punishment of lashing for adultery among the christians living under muslim law?

There's no 'qisas' for marriage and divorce laws, i.e. whether you follow or not, there's no punishement stipulated unless of course, you cheat someone using marriage as a scam. If a marriage and divorce is straightfoward, there's no qisas or equal retribution.

Would the widows be required to wait for a period of 3 months to marry again?
Would they be required to follow divorce procedures like Quran says?
Would all other punishments(from Quran) apply to them?

mquran

PM, what did I tell you? Poor chap doesnt have the brains of a 6 yr old. It's good that now the women know what a sex pest he is ) so he can't pull off his lame lines on them.

mquran

So, according to u, there would be no punishment of lashing for adultery among the christians living under muslim law?

No. If they had sex publicly (in front of 4 ppl as the Quran stipulates) then there's punishment for them as with everyone else.

Would the widows be required to wait for a period of 3 months to marry again?
Would they be required to follow divorce procedures like Quran says?

As far as my reading goes, there's no punishable requirement for divorce laws. If you follow them, you gain Allah's rewards. If you don't, you won't.

Would all other punishments(from Quran) apply to them?

Such as what ?

unknownuser

PM, what did I tell you? Poor chap doesnt have the brains of a 6 yr old. It's good that now the women know what a sex pest he is so he can't pull off his lame lines on them.

Did I miss anything here? What are u talking about? shock

unknownuser

No. If they had sex publicly (in front of 4 ppl as the Quran stipulates) then there's punishment for them as with everyone else.

oh, is this true for muslims as well?
Are muslims punishable only when they comit adultery in the presence of 4 people?!

mquran

Did I miss anything here? What are u talking about?

If you want, I can deconstruct the statement Rizwan/Jaxal/Sex-pest made (Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country). Its a statement made by a person who will never quote the Quran to you but claims to be muslim (sic).

mquran

oh, is this true for muslims as well?
Are muslims punishable only when they comit adultery in the presence of 4 people?

Everyone is. In an islamic domain, people are all bound by the same laws.

Jaxal

SaLaM PM

Are muslims punishable only when they comit adultery in the presence of 4 people

See in a normal civilized country, we dont need 4 people as witness. We need evidence. Again, one more reason why Quran was never meant to run a country D

unknownuser

Mquran,

Did I miss anything here? What are u talking about?

If you want, I can deconstruct the statement Rizwan/Jaxal/Sex-pest made (Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country). Its a statement made by a person who will never quote the Quran to you but claims to be muslim (sic).

I would appreciate it, if u do not resort to calling people 'names'.
I would kindly request u to address anyone expressing their views here, with respect, EVEN if u disagree with them.
There is no point in a discussion if there is no respect for fellow human beings.

mquran

See in a normal civilized country, we dont need 4 people as witness. We need evidence. Again, one more reason why Quran was never meant to run a country.

Poor guy. He thinks ppl need to go round spying on others. This is what comes from not reading al-quraan but spending ones time pestering women.

born_again

Oh, here we go again!

~0

mquran

I would appreciate it, if u do not resort to calling people 'names'.
I would kindly request u to address anyone expressing their views here, with respect, EVEN if u disagree with them.
There is no point in a discussion if there is no respect for fellow human beings.

Im simply stating the truth about Rizwan. He has made a nuisance of himself and once precipitated a lady actually CRYING in a voice-chat room. As such, its best to be aware of this person.

In continuing, lets deconstruct Rizwan's statement Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country

What is entailed from 'running a country' ?

Answer strategic , tactical and operational activities. In other words, long-term, mid-term and short-term goals.

Does al-quraan posess

a) strategic goals Yes. If one reads the story of Adam, it tells you how what a society based on Allah's concepts will be like.

b) tactical goals Yes, if one reads the stories of David and Solomon, it tells you about the tactics of running a mulk.

c) operational goals al-quraan's ethical code is precisely what all humans need in order to run a clean and efficient government.

In short, Rizwan is as usual, giving false accusations against the book. Try asking him for evidence if you will and you will see for yourself.

Jaxal

I feel bad humiliating you. Almost felt pity for you. but looks like you havent learnt anything from your divorce.

Im simply stating the truth about Rizwan. He has made a nuisance of himself and once precipitated a lady actually CRYING in a voice-chat room. As such, its best to be aware of this person.

Ill take being a nuisance over being divorced anyday wink

unknownuser

Oh, here we go again!

~0

I agree with u born again.
This attitude has to stop if we are to have a constructive discussion.
All of us are bound to differ in our views and opinions.
But that shouldnt permit anyone to use impolite behaviour in a public forum.
We need to respect each other and also the differences.