Is Quran anti- secular?
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Hi Mquran,
I didnt obviously mean 'dont kill' , 'dont cheat' laws. These are values, that any human, irrespective of any religion can realise and understand.How about lashing for adultery? What if the christians in the country do not relate to it?Would the law apply to them as well?
What about marriage and divorce laws? What rules will be followed for the christians? the ones mentioned in Quran(which they dont believe and accept) or seperate rules for them, according to their beliefs?
Khi- Salam. The majority dictates the rules of the country and if it has decided to take those above mentioned from Quran then it applies to EVERYBODY. Christians may also not be satisfied with imprisonment of those whove beaten up homos, yet if they live in such a country where the law applies theyve to accept it as is the case of secular countries. So whts your point? Btw the Quranic laws if applied would be best for a country. GOD Bless!
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SALaM PM
Excellent question. Only proves that Quran was never meant to run a country.
Khi- Salam. What do you mean? The Quran has laws in it for all humanity and if we were to apply them rape, murder, violence, etc all woud come down considerably and there would be a much greater sense of justice. GOD Bless!
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Hi IDMKhizar and all,
My question is simply this
This question is for all those muslims living in secular countries such as USA, Australia, Britain,India etc... Would u prefer if ur country had a religious legislation(such as christian, hindu etc) based on the religion of the majority, or would u prefer a secular legislation taking into consideration 'humanity in general irrespective of religion', like that of now? -
Hi IDMKhizar and all,
My question is simply this
This question is for all those muslims living in secular countries such as USA, Australia, Britain,India etc... Would u prefer if ur country had a religious legislation(such as christian, hindu etc) based on the religion of the majority, or would u prefer a secular legislation taking into consideration 'humanity in general irrespective of religion', like that of now?My answer always has been is that SECULAR DEMOCRACY
is the only way forward...there is no other way...it is the only way to go...SECULAR DEMOCRACY serves humanity best.
Regards,
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Hi IDMKhizar and all,
My question is simply this
This question is for all those muslims living in secular countries such as USA, Australia, Britain,India etc... Would u prefer if ur country had a religious legislation(such as christian, hindu etc) based on the religion of the majority, or would u prefer a secular legislation taking into consideration 'humanity in general irrespective of religion', like that of now?Khi- Salam. Do you mean the Quran doesnt take into consideration 'humanity in general irrespective of religion'? If you do then your wrong. The lashing in public part for adultery is a social and non religious issue. It causes shame to enter peoples minds so they dont commit the same again. A similar punishment was instituted by schwazenegger making thieves stand outside in public with a cardboard saying "im a thief". GOD Bless!
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My answer always has been is that SECULAR DEMOCRACY
is the only way forward...there is no other way...it is the only way to go...SECULAR DEMOCRACY serves humanity best.
Regards,
Khi- Salam. Depends on how you define democracy. I prefer a democracy where all people have smething to add and not just a black and white ALL the opinions of the majority only. Life is grey, NOT black and white contrary to what most people want it to be. And i believe the Quranic laws serve humanity in the best way possible. GOD Bless!
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Brother stop wasting time on people who like to pick and choose Qur'an which suits their own views and and have no shame to reject what they don't like. The discussion on this forum has become a joke where people have problem understanding simple posts. They keep asking stupid questions and still believe that they are wise and intelligent.
The same advice for brothers AhmadBaghat and Idmkhizar.
Free Minds Forum has taken over by these idiots who do not know the how to discuss issues logically.
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SaLaM idmkhizar
Khi- Salam. What do you mean? The Quran has laws in it for all humanity and if we were to apply them rape, murder, violence, etc all woud come down considerably and there would be a much greater sense of justice. GOD Bless!
Those arent enough to run a country brother. The Quran is not a book on "How to run a country for dummies". Quran gives morals. This is good. This is right. This is wrong. It is up to us to derive the laws from the Quran and apply it to a society. PM has asked a very crucial question
"Should laws of islam be applied to christian, jews, hindus, bhuddist?". Well not in these words but that is the question essentially.
Even if we pull together the Torah, Gospel and Quran, we still cannot run a country by these books. The countries which have brought religion into their politics , are in a dump. Shouldnt that be a lesson?
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Hi KGB,
Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Brother stop wasting time on people who like to pick and choose Qur'an which suits their own views and and have no shame to reject what they don't like. The discussion on this forum has become a joke where people have problem understanding simple posts. They keep asking stupid questions and still believe that they are wise and intelligent.The same advice for brothers AhmadBaghat and Idmkhizar.
Free Minds Forum has taken over by these idiots who do not know the how to discuss issues logically.
If u r indeed very wise and intelligent, why would u bother posting a personal advice u r giving to ur friends in the discussion here, instead of a PM to them?
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"Should laws of islam be applied to christian, jews, hindus, bhuddist?". Well not in these words but that is the question essentially.
And vice versa. Would u all also be happy to follow the religious laws of the majority people of the non muslim country u live in, if given a choice between secularism and religious laws?
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I don't send Private Messages. Because I don't have anything to hide. I always keep posting on the public forum instead of trying to form a secertive group.
Do you have problem with this? Live with it if you have. I am not going to change myself to please you.
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"Should laws of islam be applied to christian, jews, hindus, bhuddist?". Well not in these words but that is the question essentially.
And vice versa. Would u all also be happy to follow the religious laws of the majority people of the non muslim country u live in, if given a choice between secularism and religious laws?
Khi- Salam. If i wanna live in a country i have to follow its rules. Im living in germany where i cant just beat up the criminals like murderers or rapists or even just be somewhat harsh to homos. Im actually punished if i hurt a rapist by myself even if it were proved in the aftermath that he did rape and i saw it with my own eyes. This doesnt make me happy ofcourse but what can i do. Its the rule of the country. So your saying that secular law makes everyone happy is nonsensible. If you dont like the laws of a country or those laws go against your beliefs or religious scriptures the only logical solution is to leave unless forced by necessity. GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
Khi- Salam. What do you mean? The Quran has laws in it for all humanity and if we were to apply them rape, murder, violence, etc all woud come down considerably and there would be a much greater sense of justice. GOD Bless!
Those arent enough to run a country brother. The Quran is not a book on "How to run a country for dummies". Quran gives morals. This is good. This is right. This is wrong. It is up to us to derive the laws from the Quran and apply it to a society. PM has asked a very crucial question
"Should laws of islam be applied to christian, jews, hindus, bhuddist?". Well not in these words but that is the question essentially.
Even if we pull together the Torah, Gospel and Quran, we still cannot run a country by these books. The countries which have brought religion into their politics , are in a dump. Shouldnt that be a lesson?
Khi- Salam. Ok i get ur point. Quran doesnt detail each and everything. Much is left for us to decide but im talking about whats in there clearly. That should be added to the rules of the country. GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
But brother, where in the Quran do you find the punishment for all criminal acts? Do you know how many criminal acts are there? Are you saying that the Quran gives the punishement to every single criminal act every commited? What about cyber crimer? Does Quran speaks of cyber crime? And as stillearning asked, what about saftey laws while building schools, building, hospitals, roads, cars, turcks, vans, cycles, rockets. There are laws for this. Quran does not gives these laws. WE , the humans, have to derieve these laws from what God gave us. A MORAL CODE.
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SaLaM idmkhizar
But brother, where in the Quran do you find the punishment for all criminal acts? Do you know how many criminal acts are there? Are you saying that the Quran gives the punishement to every single criminal act every commited? What about cyber crimer? Does Quran speaks of cyber crime? And as stillearning asked, what about saftey laws while building schools, building, hospitals, roads, cars, turcks, vans, cycles, rockets. There are laws for this. Quran does not gives these laws. WE , the humans, have to derieve these laws from what God gave us. A MORAL CODE.
Khi- Salam. U dont and i agree. Thats why i said much is left upto us BUT THOSE PUNISHEMTS WHICH ARE MENTIONED IN IT SHOULD BE APPLIED. Get it? GOD Bless!
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SaLaM idmkhizar
Sorry brother i posted after you. I didnt see that post. But ok, so now do you agree that Quran was not meant to run a country?
Khi- Salam. Ok in that sense, yes. But this doesnt mean the Quran's laws should not be included in the legislation of country by believers. I thoguht thats what you meant to imply. GOD Bless!
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Salaamun alaikum,
PeacefulmuslimWell, if u r gonna say , a country with muslim majority should have religious legislation, its only fair that the other countries also follow their religious laws, instead of secular laws meant for 'humanity in general irrespective of religion'.
MQ Are you talking about muslims in the quranic sense or not ?
PM I am, indeed.
What is your point here? If the christians are kafir to thier deen, we should be kafir to ours ? What people do is really thier own affair. Al-quraan commands that God's laws be established. If you reject God's laws, that's also your business.
PM If Australia were to follow christian law, and if any non christian also had to abide by them, even if they dont recognise it as an authority, then it would be unfair wont it? What if some of the religious laws, u feel were very unjust, but still u are forced to abide?
When al-madeenah is established, no one will force you to enter it. So what's the problem here? Are you ok with people entering polities (like the UK) then blatantly disobeying the law ?
Al-quraan postulates LAWS. If you're a muslim, you submit to them. If not, that's also cool.
LoteTree In a society there will always be individuals of different beliefs therefore we have no choice but have a Secular Democracy.
Chaps and Chapes's Secular Democarcy is the only way forward...
The beautiful of proof of this is Paris of last month! The most rabidly anti-religion democracy was burning due to the effects of 'secular democracy'
I completely agree with u.
When people of all religions can live together peacefully under the same roof, in a secular environment , why not?Because al-quraan forbids us to entrust protectorship (wilayaat) over to al-kafireen (5/51)
Brother stop wasting time on people who like to pick and choose Qur'an which suits their own views and and have no shame to reject what they don't like. The discussion on this forum has become a joke where people have problem understanding simple posts. They keep asking stupid questions and still believe that they are wise and intelligent.
The same advice for brothers AhmadBaghat and Idmkhizar.
Free Minds Forum has taken over by these idiots who do not know the how to discuss issues logically.
Yes, al-quraan calls ppl like this 'alladhina haadu' (4/46). Their acceptance of al-islaam is conditional to thier desires and not in full submission (4/65).
PM If u r indeed very wise and intelligent, why would u bother posting a personal advice u r giving to ur friends in the discussion here, instead of a PM to them
What has 'wisdom and intelligence' to do with how he chooses to say this? I think he's wise to say it publically because there's so much misleading information is FM now that people should be forewarned about who really lurks in these pretending to be upholders of Al-quraan when in fact they oppose the establishment of ad-deen fully.
PM And vice versa. Would u all also be happy to follow the religious laws of the majority people of the non muslim country u live in, if given a choice between secularism and religious laws?
If you enter a polity , a political domain, then you undertake the social contract to follow its laws. SECULAR AND RELIGION are made up names, designed to subvert the essence of things which is POWER. Al-Quraan deals with power/mulk and tells us to attain mulk.
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SaLaM idmkhizar
You are around the forum so rare that i want to ask you a lot of question looolll.
Ok, do you beleive that if Quran was sent down today, it would be the exact same in every single punishment as it was 1400 years ago?
Khi- Salam. Regrading the general punishments including all other commands which apply to all believers, YES as those usually preceded by "ya ayuhalazeena aamanu" or simply without any further remark of time and location. Regarding local commandments precede by phrases like "for the Jews we forbade... we decreed the sabbath for the jews..." those were only for a particular time. GOD clearly distinguishes local from global commandments/punishments in the Quran otherwise it just wouldnt make any sense. GOD Bless!