Wife Beatgin

marie

Peace,

You may be interested by this thread

434

Peace Marie

thanks for the info, very interesting indeed and I tend to start believing what you suggested except I could not read the french comments, it makes great sense

thanks for the possibilty of another flaw fixing

peace

Fahad1

true but that is a case of a word with two differeent meaning, very common in any language,

so the context will control the meaning of that word

Da Ra Ba = to beat or to tarvel

in the verse of ill conduct women, it can't mean make them travel, it will be a joke

in the verse of travelling, it can't mean to beat the earth, rathar to travel in the earth

on the story of Al Baqara sura 2, Allah told the jews to Beat "Idrabo" the Cow with the body of the dead so they know the killer, again to travel can't be the meaning within the context but to beat is a perfect meaning within the context of that story

right . the meaning of a word should be decided with keeping the context in mind , and not only by comparing with its occurances in other verses .

unknownuser

true but that is a case of a word with two differeent meaning, very common in any language,

so the context will control the meaning of that word

Da Ra Ba = to beat or to tarvel

in the verse of ill conduct women, it can't mean make them travel, it will be a joke

in the verse of travelling, it can't mean to beat the earth, rathar to travel in the earth

on the story of Al Baqara sura 2, Allah told the jews to Beat "Idrabo" the Cow with the body of the dead so they know the killer, again to travel can't be the meaning within the context but to beat is a perfect meaning within the context of that story

right . the meaning of a word should be decided with keeping the context in mind , and not only by comparing with its occurances in other verses .

I agree man, but the problem here is my nature refuses beating any human,

I found the argument of using the word "Gald" to express beating is very strong man,

in any case, I never cared about the section of beating the wife in the verse as I will never do that, she will just face the highway

Allah knows best bro, but again the context appearing in that verse most likely means beating an ill conduct wife if the Final cermony of the prophet is true, but we just can't use the human words to qualify Allah words

a big delimma indeed

peace be with you

Fahad1

I agree man, but the problem here is my nature refuses beating any human,

I found the argument of using the word "Gald" to express beating is very strong man,

in any case, I never cared about the section of beating the wife in the verse as I will never do that, she will just face the highway

Allah knows best bro, but again the context appearing in that verse most likely means beating an ill conduct wife if the Final cermony of the prophet is true, but we just can't use the human words to qualify Allah words

a big delimma indeed

peace be with you

salam.
i m not saying whether daraba means beat/strike or whatever . i m not sure about that . i will have to look further into those verses .
i was only saying that while deciding the meaning of a word , the context should be kept in mind . there is a practice of deciding the meaning of any word by equating and linking verses in which that word occurs , without keeping the context in mind . i dont agree with this practice .

unknownuser

salam.
i m not saying whether daraba means beat/strike or whatever . i m not sure about that . i will have to look further into those verses .

Peace bro

I was just looking mate, wow 60 examples of the word Daraba in all with totally different meanings, a lot of studies is required for sure

i was only saying that while deciding the meaning of a word , the context should be kept in mind .

yep and I agree with that 100%, but what puzzles me is there is no context for that verse other than A WIFE WHO INSISTS ON ILL CONDUCTS, and the problem for me that beating that wife to bring her to the right path maybe something good for her so I can acceot beating as an option for the righteous husband to impose on an ill conducted wife, maybe beating will make wake up and fear Allah ans stop her ill conducts, and that is the closest context I can get, however Allah knows best and we don;t know for sure

there is a practice of deciding the meaning of any word by equating and linking verses in which that word occurs , without keeping the context in mind . i dont agree with this practice .

oh man, what a delimma, indeed that practice is very common, but what you say is also making great sense

i say, possible somewhere in between? I don't know man it is my heart who is controlling my understanding and I believe it is the case with everyone, i'm no unique here

peace be with you

Fahad1

Peace

The root d-r-b is used in these ayatin.

1317/1425/1674/6610 - Setting forth/cite/yadrib, a parable/amthal

435 - Take away/adrib

3793 - striking/darban , Abraham does so to the idols

2077/2663 - Splitting/idrib, Moses splitting the sea

2431 - drawing over/striking/yadrib, coverings and the feet

There are others, but it does not necessarily imply beating a thing.

Joe

salam Joe.
thanks for the list . i will look into them .

what about the verse that says angels will strike/beat the faces of the disbelievers ?

TheNabi

Peace

what about the verse that says angels will strike/beat the faces of the disbelievers ?

Yes it is said in ayat 850/4727 that the malaika will do such. In 812 it is used in referrence to cutting off apendages.

If you feel that God allows for one to abuse their wives in exchange for the mental abuse they may put on their husbands than that's cool. It's all up to you .

Joe

Fahad1

If you feel that God allows for one to abuse their wives in exchange for the mental abuse they may put on their husbands than that's cool. It's all up to you .

salam.

if i FEEL ?! should it matter what we feel ? what if the Quran tells us the opposite of what we feel ?

i m trying to know the meaning of that verse . we dont have to change the meaning of the verse to suit or feelings . we have to do the opposite .

TheNabi

Peace

if i FEEL ?! should it matter what we feel ? what if the Quran tells us the opposite of what we feel ?

Yes, if YOU feel. Is that not clear enough to you?

If the reading tells us the opposite of what we feel than our interpretation is wrong. If you feel you are not supposed to beat your wife based on your studies but the reading says, yes, this is rule number 3 than your feeling is wrong.

Clear enough for you?

i m trying to KNOW the meaning of that verse .

No kidding man.

we dont have to change the meaning of the verse to suit or feelings . we have to do the opposite .

Then that would mean your interpretation is correct.

Joe

unknownuser

Hi,

I need to know if it is really allowed to beat your wife in Islam?

there are two things, to know if it is ok to beat the wife and to know if Islam allows to beat the wife.
There is no need of any book/revelation to know that it is never ok and if Islam would allow it wouldn't make it ok either.
The doubt is the problem, there shouldn't exist the slightest doubt.

I agree!

Peace!

mquran

Joe If the reading tells us the opposite of what we feel than our interpretation is wrong.

Or it could be that our interpretation is right but our feeling is wrong. My criteria is al-furqaan and not my feeling.

If you feel you are not supposed to beat your wife based on your studies but the reading says, yes, this is rule number 3 than your feeling is wrong.

Agreed. This is submission to Allah as opposed to denying his laws.

ichephren

My current take on 434 is So good women are obedient to God, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded(I take to mean more than sex. It may also mean disregarding their marital privacy in any way that can be done). As for those from whom you fear/experience quarrel/rebellion, advice/warn them and do not share your bed with them, and ignore them/leave them alone. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
I take this meaning from several parts of the Quran, namely 995 where "faaAAridoo AAanhum" is taken to mean "let them be" or "disregard them." So, the verb is not limited to "striking" when the object is a person. Marie also came up with a great argument where "Waidriboohunna" can be translated as "leave them" when combined with "fee." This reaches the same conculsion as 995 would allow us to reach. Do correct me is I am wrong. If the verse was talking about the wife having an affair, then the laws of adultery would step in and the hisband would not have to beat her anyway.
I personally do not see any Quranic precedent for the verse to be translated as "beat." It doesn't make any sense, especially when combined with other verses that talk about marriage. When we get rid of the sequential understanding where the husband first advises her then...and then beats her, it makes even less sense. It would be translated as "if your wife is annoying, warn her, stop sleeping with her and beat her," possibly until one side gives up.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Elena,

We surely dont need any book to tell us that beating your wife, or anyone in aggression, is not the correct path. We must realize that all knowledge is within us. The God is within us. It is the very core of our being. Closer than the jugular vein. When we quiet the intellect of man, make it submit to the God's Word(universal law), then we intuit the correct response to any situation. All things in life were intuited by someone, there is always a first.

This book thats called "Quran" was not sent down as a 114 chapter writing out of the skies, or in some hidden tunnel of a cave, it was written by a human who was able to "talk to the God" as Musa did. Then this wisdom is written down and passed along.

But the main point is that this message is not "book" focused, it is LIFE focused. The Universe is the book we are reading. Its LAWS we are proclaiming.

So as Elena rightly pointed out, would we blindly follow an instruction to beat women, when we have no objective proof of how that resolves a situation and leads to peace and happiess (success), even if the book said so?

This is why we must verify all info.

jonny_k

Salam idolfree,

Peace be upon you,

The word being translated as "beat" means to seperate. The last measure is seperation, not beating.

Khi- Yes i totally agree with you on this one. RK pointed to this interpretation in the heading he gave to the verse but then unfortunately Satan made him forget to translate the word "idriboohunna" to "separate regarding them(the women)" instead of "beat them". This has been doscussed by bro Edip Yuksel and even Keikhosrow Emami, who though not a real messenger but he supports RK in almsost everything EXCEPT 434. What an amazing coincidence? GOD Bless!

Elena

Peace,

I researched into 'idribuhunna' and found it to mean 'seperate them' due to etymology and context. However, if I found it to be 'beat them', what should I have done?

Wherever you find that kind of instruction, reject it.

mquran

Elena Wherever you find that kind of instruction, reject it.

Ok, on what criteria should I reject it?

Elena

Peace,

Elena Wherever you find that kind of instruction, reject it.

Ok, on what criteria should I reject it?

with the same criteria you used to discard "beat" and find "separate"

mquran

with the same criteria you used to discard "beat" and find "separate"

That's an internal linguistic criteria. That same criteria could have said 'beat'. If that criteria said 'beat', should I reject it? If so, why?

Elena

peace,

with the same criteria you used to discard "beat" and find "separate"

That's an internal linguistic criteria. That same criteria could have said 'beat'. If that criteria said 'beat', should I reject it? If so, why?

not the linguistic criteria, the criteria that impelled you to search and study that part of the verse and look for another interpretation/translation.