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  4. Reason and Revelation

Reason and Revelation

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Andya_Primanda
    wrote on last edited by
    #37

    Hi,

    Evolution can only be possible if the genetic informaiton in us change for good + this change of genetic information could be propagated or passed on to the next generation. If this is true then I will agree with the evolutionist.

    Of course genetic information is passed on to the next generation! Check the example of domesticated animals and plants.

    I get the idea that you're confused about basic genetics and heredity here.

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    • J Offline
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      Jaxal
      wrote on last edited by
      #38

      SaLaM Andya

      Are you familiar with the experiments carried out on rats. Their tails were cut off and then allowed to mate to see if their babes have smaller tails. Found out that it dont work like that. I dont know what the result of the experiment was. Do you know of this?

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      • K Offline
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        Komla
        wrote on last edited by
        #39

        my salaam,i do support evolution,there is a verse in the quran in which Allah says that there was a span of time were the human was no even mentionable.But i just don`t accept the whole monkey bizness.Because somepeople were racist and had to put down others.

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        • U Offline
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          unknownuser
          wrote on last edited by
          #40

          Hello Komala,

          i just don`t accept the whole monkey bizness.Because somepeople were racist and had to put down others.

          If you accept evolution then you have to accept the "monkey" business too wink

          Evolution unites humanity. In fact Evolution unites all life on Earth since all life share a common ancestor...

          Regards,

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            Jaxal
            wrote on last edited by
            #41

            SaLaM komla

            Those racist people forget that they were too monkeys once. D

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            • B Offline
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              bmbmm
              wrote on last edited by
              #42

              Chicken is not evidence

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              • A Offline
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                Andya_Primanda
                wrote on last edited by
                #43

                Chicken is not evidence

                Why not? Once there were no domestic chickens, but ancient farmers tamed the wild jungle fowl and breed chickens which have shorter legs, more meat, and smaller brain.

                And what about the other domesticated examples I put forth?

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                • B Offline
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                  bmbmm
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #44

                  Hi Andya,

                  But this is breeding, mixing of DNA, which is very different from evolution.

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                  • J Offline
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                    jonny_k
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #45

                    Salam LT and ALL,

                    Hi,

                    Mutations leads to errors and diseases. If I have a mutation which ultimately give rise to the development of another nose, how would that be passed on to my next child? If it doesn't then it is not evolution. Perhaps give me an example were a mutation(s) has given rise to a better change through evolution?

                    Mutations is neither good or bad. It is only good if it allows the species to survive in the environment. It is bad when it does not.

                    As for passing your mutated extra nose? Sickel Cell Anaemia, Thalacyma etc...these are passed on to the offspring either in a dormant or active form depending on the circumstances of the parents DNA...

                    Regards,

                    Johnny- No just comparing it to an environment and saying that it survued hence being good is not enough. It has to be all over good. Otherwise cutting off the hands of humans to make them escape handcuffing would also be beneficial but this can definitely not be taken as an example of beneficial mutation and both sickel cell anaemia and thalacyma are -ve. They dont add up any new info. Such processes would never be able to change a monkey to a man. Rashad Khalifa, a biochemist and a scientist on the roster for the United Nations back in the 1980s has used mathematical probability laws to show the utter impossibility of ape or ape like creatures chaging to men even if they were 99% similar which they are not. Thzey are less than 96% similar. Please before you reply go and view the clip "Evolution or Ceation, the final argument", no.17, at http//www.submissiontv.com . GOD Bless!

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                    • A Offline
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                      Andya_Primanda
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #46

                      Hi Andya,

                      But this is breeding, mixing of DNA, which is very different from evolution.

                      The thing is, the traits found in domestic chickens (and dogs, and corn, and cabbage, and cattle, and goldfish etc etc) has not been there in the first place. They were selected through domestication, which is another way of saying we evolve our domestic species.

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                      • B Offline
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                        bmbmm
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #47

                        So where is the evidence?

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                        • A Offline
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                          Andya_Primanda
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #48

                          So where is the evidence?

                          Domestic chickens, dog breeds, cabbage forms...

                          Fossils.

                          Genetic similarity, especially 'plagiarized errors'.

                          The taxonomic hierarchy.

                          Bacterial resistance to drugs, tuskless elephants, lactose digestion in adult humans.

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                            bmbmm
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #49

                            Hi,

                            This is not evidence for evolution.

                            Peace Andya

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                              Andya_Primanda
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #50

                              Hi,

                              This is not evidence for evolution.

                              Peace Andya

                              Then what do you consider to be evidence of evolution, then?

                              Items 1, 2, and 4 were the evidence available to Darwin, which led him to prpose the tehory of evolution through natural selection. Item 3 and 5 are later discoveries that further reinforces the idea that evolution happened.

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                                bmbmm
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #51

                                Hi,

                                This is not evidence for evolution, but just mixing of genetic information ? .

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                                • A Offline
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                                  Andya_Primanda
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #52

                                  Hi,

                                  This is not evidence for evolution, but just mixing of genetic information ? .

                                  I don't catch your response. I mean, most variation that exists in domesticated animals has not existed in their wild predecessors! Besides, you also ignore the other evidence I put forth like the taxonomic hierarchy and fossils, which are not necessarily related to genetics.

                                  Tha makes me wonder, are you confused about evolution? What is your definition of evolution?

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                                  • B Offline
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                                    bmbmm
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #53

                                    Hi Andya

                                    There is no evolution. There is no evidence for it. How is the genome reprogrammed? This has to achieved if for evolution has to occur. But not just this but even if this occur at level of a particular cell-type, how would this information/change gona be accomodated in a particular species. I am a molecular biologist, and am looking at evolution at molecular level. Hence, I do not see any evidence. To make it simple, just tell me how the genome is reprogrammed if there is evolution?

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                                    • A Offline
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                                      Andya_Primanda
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #54

                                      Hi Andya

                                      There is no evolution. There is no evidence for it. How is the genome reprogrammed? This has to achieved if for evolution has to occur. But not just this but even if this occur at level of a particular cell-type, how would this information/change gona be accomodated in a particular species. I am a molecular biologist, and am looking at evolution at molecular level. Hence, I do not see any evidence. To make it simple, just tell me how the genome is reprogrammed if there is evolution?

                                      Your definition of evolution please. You can't just go claiming 'there is no evolution' without even saying what you think as evolution. Some of the evidence I have put forth led Darwin to propose his theories of evolution.

                                      New variations arise all the time within the genome due to mutations and recombination. How is it that you choose to ignore this line of evidence?

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                                      • B Offline
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                                        bmbmm
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #55

                                        Hi Andya,

                                        Thanks for your replay.

                                        I agree with you that new variations arise through mutation and genetic recombination. But this is just genetic mutation and recombination. An environmental impact generating a mutation is often not good or fatal, also one should not get confused with adaptation, where nothing is added or taken away from the genome. For argument sake, even if mutations does occur in me through evolution, which by some "luck" give me some advantages, how is this gonna pass on to my next generation? Isn't this needed for evolution to occur? Lets don't go around in a circle. These is no evolution because there is no evidence for it.

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                                        • A Offline
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                                          Andya_Primanda
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #56

                                          Hi Andya,

                                          Thanks for your replay.

                                          I agree with you that new variations arise through mutation and genetic recombination. But this is just genetic mutation and recombination. An environmental impact generating a mutation is often not good or fatal, also one should not get confused with adaptation, where nothing is added or taken away from the genome. For argument sake, even if mutations does occur in me through evolution, which by some "luck" give me some advantages, how is this gonna pass on to my next generation? Isn't this needed for evolution to occur? Lets don't go around in a circle. These is no evolution because there is no evidence for it.

                                          That's why I'm baffled with your reply. You do know that you pass your genes to your offspring, right? Suppose a mutation happens in the DNA in your reproductive cells. This mutation might be inherited by your offspring. I thought you should know this?

                                          By the way, what do you consider evolution is? You haven't answered that.

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