Who is this....a liar....an impostor?????
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Your welcome Osiris. I don't read and trust RK translation. There are plenty of audio Qirat website on internet but never seen translation audio.
You can also refer to Dr. Shabbir Ahmed QXP. He is very much influenced by G. A. Pervaiz. You can trust Dr. Shabbir Ahmed translation.
QXP
Look at eMuslim Word for Word translation. It is helping me to understand message more clearly.
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Hi all,
Yeah, I have also found Yusuf ali one to be good so far. so, I am sticking to it for now, too.
Though this translation also conforms to the traditional view of halal, as in act of butchering.
Thats why it becomes necessary to confirm the translation of almost every verse.
Peace!
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IMHO, a translation of the quran can only be a translation of the understanding of the translator.
I think the best way to explore the quran is to study one topic at a time... Reading the articles of FM can be a good start.
But it is very difficult to truly understand the quran by reading it surah after surah... to understand a verse, it is better to read all verses expressing the same ideas...
IMHO, the most interesting translations are those of Muhammad Asad, Muhammad Ali, and Shabbir Ahmed.
The ones of Sher Ali, GA Parwez, and Kamal Omar are worth having a look too.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/EnglishTranslations.htmPeace
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Sher Ali is Ahmadi (Qadiani) so be careful when readking Sher Ali.
Yes, Muhammad Ali is an Ahmadi too. Muhammad Asad is a sunni, and the other ones are heretics....
You have always to be careful when you read a translation... That's why I have said "a translation of the quran can only be a translation of the understanding of the translator"...
But we should try to judge people on their works, and not on their names, or on the sunni propaganda upon them...
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I don't disagree with you on this, my statement was within the context of this thread in saying you can not know what is in a person's heart, you won't know the extent of their faith in God, so I mean we do not have the right to judge someones faith in Islam.
Sorry, to me, this doesn't conform to al-quraan. To me, imaan automatically leads to al-islaam (see 43/69 and 3/84). Therefore, when one acts outside the bounds set by Allah, it's his heart which errs. Please look at below
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
comment warning is something external....God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
comment God's telling you about thier HEARTS. Imaan resides in the heart.So im afraid I can't agree with you.
But, in an example that applies to what I am talking about, suppose I meet a traditional muslim, and I tell him/her that there faith is weak because they follow things that are not in the Quran, and vice versa they say my faith is weak because I don't follow the hadith or don't eat halal. Here I am saying it is not my right to judge the strength of their faith and vice versa not their right to judge my faith because these are things that are only clearly apparent to Allah and Allah alone.
Sorry but this doesn't make sense. You have not brought al-quraan into this equation at all.
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JM IMHO, a translation of the quran can only be a translation of the understanding of the translator.
Agreed.
I think the best way to explore the quran is to study one topic at a time... Reading the articles of FM can be a good start
A good start but to me, a better start is to read Parwez's books and articles as well as (if you can find them) Kashif Ahmed Shehzada's works.
But it is very difficult to truly understand the quran by reading it surah after surah... to understand a verse, it is better to read all verses expressing the same ideas...
Disagreed. The arrangement of al-quraan is by Allah and as such carries much weight. JM, please read 'Coherence in The Quran' by Mustansir Mir. I've seen your research and I think you'd benefit from reading it.
IMHO, the most interesting translations are those of Muhammad Asad, Muhammad Ali, and Shabbir Ahmed.
The ones of Sher Ali, GA Parwez, and Kamal Omar are worth having a look too.
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/EnglishTranslations.htmAgreed. I admire Muhammad Ali's command of the language very much.
Sher Ali is Ahmadi (Qadiani) so be careful when readking Sher Ali.
Well, Qadiani's only manipulate (I should say 'extrapolate') the 'Ahmed' verse in chapter 61, right?
Ultimately, I advise everyone to study Arabic and read al-quraan directly. I come from a non-arabic speaking background and studied it about 7 years ago and the difference it made to my reading in terms of 'feeling' the text was good. I also recommend using this translation
http//www.jimas.org/pubs.htm
by Dr Mohar Ali.
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043.069
YUSUFALI (Being) those who have believed in Our Signs and bowed (their wills to Ours) in Islam.
PICKTHAL (Ye) who believed Our revelations and were self-surrendered,
SHAKIR Those who believed in Our communications and were submissiveAnd
003.084
YUSUFALI Say "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
PICKTHAL Say (O Muhammad) We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
SHAKIR Say We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.Sorry, to me, this doesn't conform to al-quraan. To me, imaan automatically leads to al-islaam (see 43/69 and 3/84). Therefore, when one acts outside the bounds set by Allah, it's his heart which errs. Please look at below
Who disputed that? Off course it does. I don't see how the suras you reference and I've pasted suggest that you are permitted to pass judgement on the level of someone elses faith?
God hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
comment God's telling you about thier HEARTS. Imaan resides in the heart.Yes, God is telling you that Imaan resides in the heart. That same sura describes the penalty that ALLAH has waiting for them
016.109
YUSUFALI Without doubt, in the Hereafter they will perish.
PICKTHAL Assuredly in the Hereafter they are the losers.
SHAKIR No doubt that in the hereafter they will be the losers.Explain to me how you are able to see what is in someones heart ?
I'm sorry, I dont require you to agree with me off course, but you have not actually quoted anything from the Quran that actually says YOU may judge someone elses faith.
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OsirisWho disputed that? Off course it does. I don't see how the suras you reference and I've pasted suggest that you are permitted to pass judgement on the level of someone elses faith?
The verse I quoted tell you that it's not possible to have imaan (which is in the heart) and not be in Islaam.
If you agree to that, then you'll agree that someone committing kufr cannot be a mumin.
What do you understand by 'pass judgement' ? If you're expecting a courtroom with a judge in a powdered wig, then you're a little off base. Judgement here refers to your relationship strategies with people. When people act outside the laws of Allah, then God tells u about them and you act accordingly. This is what I mean by 'judge', not punish by any means.
Explain to me how you are able to see what is in someones heart ?
I'm not but I am able to see their behaviour and God tells me what indicates about thier hearts (see 2/6-7)
I'm sorry, I dont require you to agree with me off course, but you have not actually quoted anything from the Quran that actually says YOU may judge someone elses faith.
But you agree that we may judge people through their behaviour? Or are you saying we shouldn't judge at all?
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Well, I think we are speaking about two different forms of judging. I am talking about not judging that which you can not discern. That doesnt mean you shouldn't make decisions on who you will or won't associate with based on the Quran. But there are certain things to which Allah is the be prime judge and should be left to Him. I don't really know how to say it, its just a sense or interpretation I get when I read the Quran, from the frequency in which we are told Allah is the primary judge and such. I agree, the Quran does have sections that tell us to judge, but in my interpretation, they are talking about either legal issues or deciding which behaviors you can or can not incorperate from people of the book.
If you agree to that, then you'll agree that someone committing kufr cannot be a mumin.
I don't think of it in absolute terms like this. Our lives are dynamic, sometimes we are good, and sometimes we make mistakes. Our lives are a summation of deeds and sins that we will be accounted for in the Day of Judgement. It is a complex canvas painted over a lifetime and that is why Allah is the judge.
If we learn from our sins, and reject the behavior, and ask forgiveness from Allah, then insha'allah, He is most wise and merciful. So, if someone committed sin and has since left that behavior behind, then I think they can be mumin.
Personally, I have committed sin, and I learned from it, and am stronger in opposition of those behaviors today because I did learn from those mistakes. It strengthened my faith to say, 'yeah, I now have proven the wisdom of the Quran to myself' by learning from those mistakes. Will I never be a momen because of things that I long ago left behind?
Only Allah knows. -
Well, I think we are speaking about two different forms of judging. I am talking about not judging that which you can not discern. That doesnt mean you shouldn't make decisions on who you will or won't associate with based on the Quran. But there are certain things to which Allah is the be prime judge and should be left to Him. I don't really know how to say it, its just a sense or interpretation I get when I read the Quran, from the frequency in which we are told Allah is the primary judge and such. I agree, the Quran does have sections that tell us to judge, but in my interpretation, they are talking about either legal issues or deciding which behaviors you can or can not incorperate from people of the book.
Seems that we agree. What do you feel that Allah alone can judge then?
I don't think of it in absolute terms like this. Our lives are dynamic, sometimes we are good, and sometimes we make mistakes. Our lives are a summation of deeds and sins that we will be accounted for in the Day of Judgement. It is a complex canvas painted over a lifetime and that is why Allah is the judge.
Agreed. It's possible to shift between either position easily. Of course, at the end, Allah is al-hakeem.
If we learn from our sins, and reject the behavior, and ask forgiveness from Allah, then insha'allah, He is most wise and merciful. So, if someone committed sin and has since left that behavior behind, then I think they can be mumin.
Yes, agreed.
If we learn from our sins, and reject the behavior, and ask forgiveness from Allah, then insha'allah, He is most wise and merciful. So, if someone committed sin and has since left that behavior behind, then I think they can be mumin.
Personally, I have committed sin, and I learned from it, and am stronger in opposition of those behaviors today because I did learn from those mistakes. It strengthened my faith to say, 'yeah, I now have proven the wisdom of the Quran to myself' by learning from those mistakes. Will I never be a momen because of things that I long ago left behind?No, you've misunderstood me. Kufr is a state which you reject. Once you stop and believe, then you're a mumin and muslim. I'm referring to people who keep on to thier kufr, rejecting Allah's judgement.
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Seems that we agree. What do you feel that Allah alone can judge then?
I guess you can say, those things in which the Day of Judgement is reserved for are the things that Allah alone can judge. That which is in our hearts and the sum of our deeds and sins.
No, you've misunderstood me. Kufr is a state which you reject. Once you stop and believe, then you're a mumin and muslim. I'm referring to people who keep on to thier kufr, rejecting Allah's judgement.
Ya, I don't know why I thought 'sin' when I read kufr.
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I guess you can say, those things in which the Day of Judgement is reserved for are the things that Allah alone can judge. That which is in our hearts and the sum of our deeds and sins.
Yes, I can agree with you there.
Ya, I don't know why I thought 'sin' when I read kufr.
Well, kufr is very much related to sin. You're a native Arab speaker (im guessing Osiris means you're Egyptian) ? You know how wide al-quraan's vocab is, im sure ? Words like 'ithm', 'tughyan', 'sharr', 'dharr', 'su', 'kufr', 'kazb' are all part of al-quraan's conceptual system. They all deserve a deep study in order to understand the nature of evil.