the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
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Peace
Here is another verse for those type of humans
43- Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?
44- Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.
(43)
(44)Again the verses clearly describe them as deaf and dumb, then as cattles, this is really bad for them
Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Man, so you believe that only people who speaks Arabic will understand Koran? Then, I have nothing to say..Frankly, you have just given an answer why there are so many "conflicts" in those Arabian countries...Probably because, they think they know Koran because they speak Arabic..that made many of them to be so arrogant and failed to follow the right path...
Anyway, you have chosen to be and happy to be at the place you are now at..So, its pointless for me to argue with someone who choose not to "change" even when they realized they are making a mistake...
P/s Nothing much to say if some people choose let "Iblis" control themselves...
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Peace Ahmed,
Man, so you believe that only people who speaks Arabic will understand Koran? Then, I have nothing to say..Frankly, you have just given an answer why there are so many "conflicts" in those Arabian countries...Probably because, they think they know Koran because they speak Arabic..that made many of them to be so arrogant and failed to follow the right path...
Excuse me bro youe arguments are weak and ridiculous, I did not say what you are alleging that I believe
I'm discussing an issue with another brother regarding the unmatchable Arabic Quran, I NEVER DISCUSSED UNDERSTANDING IT
did you read my posts or you are one of thoose disturbers?
Anyway, you have chosen to be and happy to be at the place you are now at..So, its pointless for me to argue with someone who choose not to "change" even when they realized they are making a mistake...
That is right I don't like to argue with anyone, I only present known facts that were quilafied using my brian and sure well supported, i didn't make a god for myself as many are doing
and I like the smart way you put that I'm making a mistake and you are not, thanks for the laugh lol would that be a biased comment to your self?
well, from my side I will leave it at 5050 chance lol
P/s Nothing much to say if some people choose let "Iblis" control themselves...
what was that? shock
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Peace Ahmed,
4523 Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?
I guess, you need to understand the verse above more than me...
Anyway,
4623 He said "The knowledge of it is with God; and I only convey to you what I was sent with. However, I see that you are a people who are ignorant."
Try to understand something from the verse above...
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Peace Ahmed,
peace bro
4523 Have you seen the one who took his ego as his god, and God led him astray, despite his knowledge, and He sealed his hearing and his heart, and He made a veil on his eyes? Who then can guide him after God? Will you not remember?
I guess, you need to understand the verse above more than me...
wrong translation sorry, i posted the right one, "Hawah" does not mean ego, this is wrong 100%
I guess for a native and fluent arabic speaker the odds is likely, the arabuc verses be more understood than those who don't speak arabic and can only resort to misleading translations
see, I don't need the above flawed translation, neither I need the right translation, i only read the Quran in Arabic because I'm blessed to have a native arabic tongue
see I will be so dumb that I speak arabic and I read the Quran in another language lol
Anyway,
4623 He said "The knowledge of it is with God; and I only convey to you what I was sent with. However, I see that you are a people who are ignorant."
Try to understand something from the verse above...
I do understand it well, why on earth you think I don't understand it?, this is bizzare, do you know me mister?, you just joined today for god sake lol
how many times you read the Quran in arabic throrougly, do you mind if I ask
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Peace Ahmed,
Actually I am about to go out before I saw your last message..Ok, I don't speak Arabic..so can you explain to me the exact meaning of it? Anyway? So I guess you're fluent in English as you're fluent in Arabic? can you explain to me the meaning of "vain"????
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cool bro, i'm about to got to bed
Yep I'm fluent in arabic including its tough grammar
I'm very good in english and speak it for the last 17 years, very bad in spelling and I don't mislead others by using ms word lol , but that is good enough for me to know that "Howa" means "Desire" clear as light
good night
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Peace Ahmed,
Actually I am about to go out before I saw your last message..Ok, I don't speak Arabic..so can you explain to me the exact meaning of it? Anyway? So I guess you're fluent in English as you're fluent in Arabic? can you explain to me the meaning of "vain"????
oh sorry forgot the vain word, you can search google for another english meaning
I only translate Arabic to English, or Arabic to Arabic
not English to Arabic neither English to English
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without the koran , i couldnt see the right path . my eyes didnt tell me the difference between right and wrong . i had no criterion to distinguish .
That means there's something wrong with your perception. God gave us the mind and the eye sight and the heart to summon things up with common divine sense.
So how is it that one or more of these things aren't functioning properly? Why didn't God give you such a functioning perception but made you dependent on a book and not your own soul? -
Ahmed,
I see where you're heading but I haven't yet figured out what cannot be reproduced similar to the Koran.
The Koran is written in a grammatically not too interesting manner. The grammar is not too difficult and it is clear, but still pretty poor. It is what I would call the end of ancient and primitive Semitic languages. Modern compared to its ancestors, but still not too complex or refined. This is the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran.
Since no one really doesn?t speak the language any longer (and the assertion that there was no distinctive difference between street and literal language, cannot really be confirmed, can it?) it is obviously more difficult for someone to create a language similar too it. But it can still be made.
Let?s just take Sanskrit as an example. An extremely old and complex language that I for myself is fully able to write just like the old Hindu writers did thousands of years ago. So what would be different about the Quraishi Arabic of the Koran? I can?t figure it out!If someone about 1400, 1300 years ago perceived this ?challenge? the same way you do and did come up with ?something similar to it?, we can?t really know, can we?
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Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Thank you for bringing more reason into this discussion, very well stated reasoning.
Ahmed, you keep speaking of this "challenge". The "challenge" is to bring a structure(surah) or sign(ayat) like the Universe(Kitaab).
Yoo can never do it.
It has nothing to do with writing a book, that would be subjective. When you understand that it is Universal Law that we are dealing with, what can you bring that is not part of the Universe already? Can you do it?
Stop idolizing a book and stop idolizing a language, become idolfree
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without the koran , i couldnt see the right path . my eyes didnt tell me the difference between right and wrong . i had no criterion to distinguish .
That means there's something wrong with your perception. God gave us the mind and the eye sight and the heart to summon things up with common divine sense.
So how is it that one or more of these things aren't functioning properly? Why didn't God give you such a functioning perception ...God gave us the book for that function . to serve as a Criterion . whats wrong with ? why dont u follow it , instead of asking for a "functioning perception" for a criterion ?
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Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Thank you for bringing more reason into this discussion, very well stated reasoning.
Ahmed, you keep speaking of this "challenge". The "challenge" is to bring a structure(surah) or sign(ayat) like the Universe(Kitaab).
Yoo can never do it.
It has nothing to do with writing a book, that would be subjective. When you understand that it is Universal Law that we are dealing with, what can you bring that is not part of the Universe already? Can you do it?
Stop idolizing a book and stop idolizing a language, become idolfree D
lol
very funny bro, thanks
sorry I have to rush to pray to my god the Quran, haha
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Peace Ahmed,
Actually I am about to go out before I saw your last message..Ok, I don't speak Arabic..so can you explain to me the exact meaning of it? Anyway? So I guess you're fluent in English as you're fluent in Arabic? can you explain to me the meaning of "vain"????
What is your native language zsrin?
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without the koran , i couldnt see the right path . my eyes didnt tell me the difference between right and wrong . i had no criterion to distinguish .
That means there's something wrong with your perception. God gave us the mind and the eye sight and the heart to summon things up with common divine sense.
So how is it that one or more of these things aren't functioning properly? Why didn't God give you such a functioning perception ...God gave us the book for that function . to serve as a Criterion . whats wrong with ? why dont u follow it , instead of asking for a "functioning perception" for a criterion ?
God did not give us a book for the function of seeing, no. He gave us our own perception with eye sight, intellect and our hearts. A book is not a part of your own perception.
The Koran says that it is your very own sight and perception that you are responsible of and that is constantly "...aquestioned about it (1736)". It does not say "...inna l-basra, wa l-f?'?da wa l-kutub k?na `anhu mas'?lan". Your own heart is your responsibility, so don't let things you can't know for certain about misguide you. And by that I'm not tallking about the Koran, but your way of looking at it.
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Peace,
Anyway, Ahmed... Are u avoiding from answering my question?
"Vain Desire" and Ego, whats the different?? As my understanding...
vain
adj 1 characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense
of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude
of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical
disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he
was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more
swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her
clothes"desire
n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things; "a man of many desires"
3 something that is desired
v 1 feel or have a desire for; want strongly; "I want to go home
now; "I want my own room"
2 expect with desire; "I trust you will behave better from now
on"; "I hope she understands that she cannot expect a
raise"
3 express a desire forego
n 1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others2 your consciousness of your own identity
3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mindSo can we say "vain desire" mean something like "the feeling to have something that has the sense of self-importance"
So, whats the different between that and being "egoistic"???
Egoistic \E
go*is"tic\, Egoistical \Egois"tical, a.
Pertaining to egoism; imbued with egoism or excessive
thoughts of self; self-loving.So, is my understanding wrong??
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Anyway, Ahmed... Are u avoiding from answering my question?
Peace
no I'm not avoiding it, i'm not interested to answer it, that's all
"Vain Desire" and Ego, whats the different?? As my understanding...
vain
adj 1 characteristic of false pride; having an exaggerated sense
of self-importance; "a conceited fool"; "an attitude
of self-conceited arrogance"; "an egotistical
disregard of others"; "so swollen by victory that he
was unfit for normal duty"; "growing ever more
swollen-headed and arbitrary"; "vain about her
clothes"desire
n 1 the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state
2 an inclination to want things; "a man of many desires"
3 something that is desired
v 1 feel or have a desire for; want strongly; "I want to go home
now; "I want my own room"
2 expect with desire; "I trust you will behave better from now
on"; "I hope she understands that she cannot expect a
raise"
3 express a desire forego
n 1 an inflated feeling of pride in your superiority to others2 your consciousness of your own identity
3 (psychoanalysis) the conscious mindgood, but I don't need it, I speak fluent Arabic and I read the Quran in Arabic
o can we say "vain desire" mean something like "the feeling to have something that has the sense of self-importance"
I don't know, but what i know that "Hawa" means 100% "desire"
So, whats the different between that and being "egoistic"???
not ssure, but what that has to do with "Hawa"?
Egoistic \E
go*is"tic\, Egoistical \Egois"tical, a.
Pertaining to egoism; imbued with egoism or excessive
thoughts of self; self-loving.thanks again, but i'm not planning to be fluent in English, it is impossible due to learning it at old age so i'm not going to waste my time lol
So, is my understanding wrong??
I'm not sure really, I'm not knowledgable with the english language yet to know how one word can have many meanings, what I'm sure about that "Hawa" means "Desire", for example, "Ana Ahwa to fly all the time" means "I desire to fly all the time", "Ana Ahwa my wife" means "I desire my wife", not sure where ego can fit in here?
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Ahmed,
I guess you're too proud of your "Arabic" that you failed to understand my question, I asked you what do you understand with "vain desire"..
you translated the verse as
"Then seest thou such a one as takes as his god his own VAIN DESIRE? Allah has, knowing (him as such), left him astray, and sealed his hearing and his heart (and understanding), and put a cover on his sight. Who, then, will guide him after Allah (has withdrawn Guidance)? Will ye not then receive admonition? "
I just want to know what you understand with "vain desire"????? Can I it be "ego" instead of "vain desire"?
Well, for me, whether its "ego", "vain desire", or "feeling of having something that has the sense of self-importance", is not important as long as I understand the meaning..In Mandarin, a single "character" can explain something that takes 10 words to explain in English, but yet, it is all the same thing when you understand the meaning....
Anyway, for me, desire springs from the ego and love of self...
