Is Alcohol Forbidden?
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Peace be with you Layth,
I appologize for misunderstanding your stance...It is possibly the 'tone' more than the 'content' of your responce that triggered my responce.
No need to apologize my brother. I can see where one may notice my tone above and beyond the content of my posts here. I believe that is the reason NP gave the reactions that she did...at least one of them anyway.
And as for that fella who calls himself Johnny_K, I don't take him seriously at all. Instead of posting that part of the thread at 19.org, post the entire thing so everyone here can see how your 19 and false verses argument was shut down and you and Bahman (So-Called Quran Aloners) pulled out the Hadith to support your case. I hope everyone here read that thread from beginning to end and judge for themselves.
Salaam,
Damon. -
Peace Zenje,
I thought it was interesting that some here were against with what Damon responded. It might have sounded a bit 'tough-lovish', but that's all it was
Yes, That's All It Was. Unfortunately, one cannot give straightforward answers here without some sort of backlash. And we can see in this thread how those backlashes can develop.
I would give the same advice to my younger brother or any person asking these questions. I used to ask these same questions when I was younger and I wish someone would have told me then what Damon was explaining to NP. Read quran for yourself, let GOD in your heart and let only HE guide you to the truth. Don't look for short-cuts. A book or a bunch of people who think they know are not going to help you any, today or on the day of judgement.
EXACTLY!! This is what I was trying to get NP to understand, especially the part underlined in bold. This is all I was trying to get her to realize. I made a mistake and misjudge the situation. Thank You bro for being able to look past the tough love and seeing what I was hoping to accomplish.
As far as the answer to the question about Khamr, I believe the best answer is one coming straight from the Quran. The Quran Clearly says that in it is Some benefit and Some harm and that the harm far outweighs the benefit!! There is another verse where it is said that is a tool used by The Shaytan to distract mankind from focusing on their devotion in this Deen.
This is what I would tell anyone who expresses an interest in Islam and The Quran and they ask meabout Khamr. I think it is very bad to tell a young person that the Quran does not forbid alcohol and just leave it at that. I must say that I am very disappointed with how alot of the older people and older members have handled her so far.
If I were to coninue to participate here in this discussion board I see that I would have to give it to people straight no chaser which seems to be frowned upon here. When you are serious about spreading the truth and letting people know about The Quran, there are times when you will have to be a little tough with certain people, because this is not a game. And I believe that if I were to sugar-coat things and not tell it like it should be told, and a person acts upon my lack of appropriate advice, then I would be held accountable for that.
I come back and see the same cliquish mentality where almost all members will come to the defense of another and they all go against one other member in particular. This was done when I lobbied to have Albion banned some time ago. I sat on the periphery and watch the shameful sagas unfold with Jaxal and Priest Bokmei. Neither of those situations had to go that far. They could've been nipped in the bud a long time ago.
I am sorry to say this, but far too many people here (not all) are not taking their duties seriously. Too many here are just looking for something to do in their spare-time and look for a debate just for the sake of debating. And when someone like me comes along and shows a little bit of necessary "Harshness" (when called for), I am considered bad news.
Oh well, that's life I guess. I am sure a guy like me has no place here. You guys can have it. And I imagine that I have more than warn out my welcome here.
Peace to you all!!
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Asalamu alaikum
From reading a few posts I must say you people (excuse the generalisation) have interesting views yet I don?t 100% agree with them not that you need my consent anyway I feel like people take things lightly? everyone, sorry most people are on the search to find out what is haram what is halal, we?re human so we?re born with curious minds but what we fail to realise is not everything is black and white?
And even when we know it is haram does it really stop people from doing it? So people say its mukrooh (hated, avoid if possible) so one knows it?s hated so why would one do it? to my belief labelling something ?haram? or ?halal? is a big statement. Why? because Allah swt gave us the laws, if it doesn?t say its haram or halal then what do we do? Start labelling things as haram or halal according to whatever logic we think? Personally I?d say no, but who am I? Nobody. I?m just a person with an opinion like every body else. The law is given I don?t want to be accountable for adding or subtracting or saying something wrong about the already given.
Society does influence peoples mind even desires. I mean ?it? being socially accepted makes one wonder so what?s so bad about such and such in this case alcohol. I think the questions everyone should ask themselves before asking is this haram or is this halal is Will ?this thing? benefit me? Will it bring good to me or will it bring bad to me? If it does bad, I should abandon it, if it brings good then all hands up, if it?s the middle way it?s not needed?.
My opinion, from reading verses 590 and 591 alkhamar (intoxicants be it alcohol or any other substance) is something of shaitans work (so basically it?s promoted by shaitan) and it holds one back from the remembrance of Allah swt.
So from those verses my understanding is that it wouldn?t be something that would please Allah or help me for my purpose so I see it as bringing no good so I wouldn?t even sniff it. That?s my opinion.
Anyway sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn?t my intention I just felt like putting my 2cents worth. May Allah swt guide us to do good.
Asalamu alaikum
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peace Damon, all,
I am sure a guy like me has no place here. You guys can have it. And I imagine that I have more than warn out my welcome here.
No offence Damon, but stop talking rubbish! You are most definitely welcome.
Hows that for tough love? wink
Wakas
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Salam "Damon",
And as for that fella who calls himself Johnny_K, I don't take him seriously at all. Instead of posting that part of the thread at 19.org, post the entire thing so everyone here can see how your 19 and false verses argument was shut down and you and Bahman (So-Called Quran Aloners) pulled out the Hadith to support your case. I hope everyone here read that thread from beginning to end and judge for themselves.
Salaam,
Damon.JK- Oh so you dont take me seriously? Neither do i take you seriously fella. You were judging by available manuscripts, Damon. You said the oldest AVAILABLE contained 9128&129 so they must be correct. This however cannot be considered proof. WE DO NOT HAVE MANUSCRIPTS DATING BACK TO THE TIME OF THE PROPHET. You have to bring archeological evidence for that if your claim is to be true but you cant. Thus all we can rely on is to apply code-19 on the avaliable manuscripts. Btw if you dont take me seriously in this regard, this means you also dont take bro Edip Yuksel seriously. From 19.org's posts it seemed to me though that you two were getting along well with each other. Strange because i share 95% of Edip's views and 99.99% regarding code-19 in Quran. We both believe in it and that 9128&129 are not part of the Quran. I urge you, if you have not already, to CAREFULLY read bro Edip's latest article "Intelligent peoples guide to code-19" at http//19.org/?books
GOD Bless! -
Hello
sorry Riz, the bit about the excess is the wrong translation
Hey. Thanks for pointing that out. I read that wrong translation in the older version of The Message translation of the Quran or I guess I just understood it wrong. However, I just checked a bunch of other translations on Yaqb and you are right.
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Peace Damon,
Oh well, that's life I guess. I am sure a guy like me has no place here. You guys can have it. And I imagine that I have more than warn out my welcome here.
Hey bro, pleeeeeeeease don't go. We miss you around here and this place needs your input. there
If you go, then I'm gonna stick a pin in my eye.Peace,
Tay -
If I am committing a sin just because I drink alcohol..than hell I am gonna put up a fight with my creator..D may be I will drive Him/It nuts and have a toast at the end..d hehehe After all we are friends..)
shanti/peace
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my post got deleted and can't be bothered typing it again but here's the summary for sarah
- Nobody takes anything lightly here ... haven;t you seen all the fights.
- Out of a 1000+ registered members only a few are regular posters so you aint getting the full picture.
- there are many here on the same wavelength as you, and as it happens I agree with you on this issue.
Asalamu alaikum
Anyway sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn?t my intention I just felt like putting my 2cents worth. May Allah swt guide us to do good.
Asalamu alaikum
don't worry I do it all the time.
Don't be afraid to post you point of view.
peace.
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Yes burhan_21 I seen the fights. What I meant was people take "practising" lightly, from what I've seen.. well thats the picture I get anyway. I guess I'm not getting the full picture ) I need to read more into things.
Well im glade you agree ) thanks for the commentsAsalamu alaikum
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peace everyone,
i dont believe anything is forbidden. I believe the quran to be a guide sent by God, and it contains some undeniable truths. Like 'there is only one God'. Denying those truths is a real sin. The rest is advice from God to us. We don't have to follow it. But if we do follow it, things will be easier for us. Because you either learn things the hard way, by experiencing something, or you can have someone who has experienced it to teach you something about it. And that's what usually happens with people.
And the quran is the best guidance for us because it is backed up by those undeniable truths. So, if we eat the meat of pigs, or steal, we won't go to hell for it, but doing those things will take us farther from the truth and being successful in this life.And also, before we label something a 'sin.' we must realize that nothing is black and white. everything's grey (or gray).
Just thought i'd sum up my views on this.
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As Salaam Alaikum Phoenix1,
but its not, is it?
that's because humans are capable of understanding right from wrong. People know what's better for them and what's not. Most people don't follow the quran's teachings. I don't see much disorder among them.When Allah says, "Forbidden for you to eat..." what does that mean? That's not advice, that's a command.
salaam
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peace
yes, it is sort of a command, but you don't need to follow it. There's no compulsion remember?
I see Islam as a set of rules, a system, God has given us to make this life easier for us. For example, you have to take a test that i created for you. And i give you a set of rules to follow and say that if you follow those rules, you will get a perfect score on the test. So in those rules, i might tell you to avoid certain things and do certain things. But that doesn't mean that if you don't follow my rules, you won't get a perfect score on the test. You can, but my system will make it easier for you to do it.Also, i think that if people learn from their experiences, which is the only way to truly learn, they end up following a similar path to what God has described in the quran. Because if we choose to abuse drugs, we will find out that its not the best way to stay healthy, and try to stop. The same with gambling.
That's just my understanding, though.
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Hi Phoenix,
Also, i think that if people learn from their experiences, which is the only way to truly learn, they end up following a similar path to what God has described in the quran. Because if we choose to abuse drugs, we will find out that its not the best way to stay healthy, and try to stop. The same with gambling..
People do learn from experience but there are more better ways to learn. From truth/reality. U dont necessarily have to try drugs to know they are harmful. U can see it around u and u can learn so from so many facts. So, experiences need not be personal at all. Its more worthwhile if u learn from truth/reality, than wait around to learn from ur own experience, coz by then, it may become too late to revert, and there may be some irreversible damage.
Peace!
