What really is Dome of the Rock?
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Salam "Layth",
Does an ankle have four sides? I dont think so. The dome as you say is elevated on four sides while the kaaba HAS four sides. So once again th
e simplest understanding of the word kaaba refers to the building in Mecca as was RK's understanding as well. GOD Bless! -
Salam "truth",
Peace,
And that "NEARLY" is a sign to any who understand.
The ancient Egyptians were able to build pyramids of astonishing precision - a feat still not completely understood. Perfect square pyramids.
And the so called 'kaaba' is a less than perfect rectangular parallelepiped even though it is made of a straightforward brick construction.
JK- My claim hasnothing to do with humans building perfect or near perfect cubes. This is just how it came about to be. Important is the refernce of the word kaaba which can be to no other than the building in Mecca according to the simplest understanding. That is the MOST cubical religios building COMPARED to all others HENCE it is MOST PROBABLY the one which is emant by the word "kaaba". Simple. GOD Bless!
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Peace Jonny,
Does an ankle have four sides? I dont think so.
Then why did you selectively chose the defintion of 'cube' for the word 'kaaba'? You are saying that the ankles (kabaain) are not even 4 sided...Does that make the word closer or further to the meaning you gave?
The dome as you say is elevated on four sides while the kaaba HAS four sides. So once again the simplest understanding of the word kaaba refers to the building in Mecca as was RK's understanding as well. GOD Bless!
All I will say on this is please study the words 'Masjid Haram' and 'Bayt Haram'...Do you see them as being one in the same? If so, how are all people being called to the 'Bayt' for Hajj, while the idolators are 'forbidden' from entering the 'Masjid'? How are the people supposed to enter the 'Bayt' while they are to face the 'Masjid' for the Salat?
Questions to ponder before repeating RK's mistakes.
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It should be noted that the Dome of the Rock area or the wailing walla area didn't look anything like it does today at the time of Muhammad or before him. Infact its probably not even where the original jewish temple was. Thinking its the shrine of Abraham mentioned in the Quran would be pure speculation. So we should be careful.
Refer to the following articles
http//www.templemount.org/radarir.html - Possible origins.
http//askelm.com/temple/t000601.htm - Original Temple location.I've mentioned before, but if we are to actually search for the shrine of Abraham Bakka Valley in Lebanon would be a good place to start.
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Peace Riz,
I've mentioned before, but if we are to actually search for the shrine of Abraham Bakka Valley in Lebanon would be a good place to start.
Bakka valley is pronounced 'Baqeea' (with a 'qaaf') so it has nothing to do with the 'Bakka' mentioned in the Scripture.
It should be noted that the Dome of the Rock area or the wailing walla area didn't look anything like it does today at the time of Muhammad or before him. Infact its probably not even where the original jewish temple was. Thinking its the shrine of Abraham mentioned in the Quran would be pure speculation. So we should be careful.
I have pointed out before (perhaps on another thread) that there is archeological evidence for the existance of a structure on that site before the time of Mohammed (one was thermal imaging that was done on the site, the other is the Roman records from before Jesus that indicate a Temple exisiting on the site and even upgraded during the time of Herod.)
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Salam "layth",
Then why did you selectively chose the defintion of 'cube' for the word 'kaaba'? You are saying that the ankles (kabaain) are not even 4 sided...Does that make the word closer or further to the meaning you gave?
JK- Theres a difference between "ka'ab" and it's female form "ka'abah(with a ha at the end)". Changing a male word to female form can change the meaning drastically. Another example would be "daqeeq" and "daqeeqah" of which the first means "flour" while the second means "hour". Can we see a relation here? I dont hink so. "kaabah" means "cube".
All I will say on this is please study the words 'Masjid Haram' and 'Bayt Haram'...Do you see them as being one in the same? If so, how are all people being called to the 'Bayt' for Hajj, while the idolators are 'forbidden' from entering the 'Masjid'? How are the people supposed to enter the 'Bayt' while they are to face the 'Masjid' for the Salat?
JK- No but i see Masjidul-Haram and Ka'abah in the same verse. But i see no problem of the bayt referring to the Ka'abah as well. You say "how are the PEOPLE being called to the bayt while the idolators are...". Well in the context GOD is calling the BELIEVING PEOPLE to Hajj and NOT just all people. Do you think GOD calls idolators to the bayt? I dont think so. GOD Bless!
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When Juds was appointed by Allah to lead men of the earth as khalifa (from Moses to Yesus), Dome of Rock is a center of men worshipness as capital city of khalifa, Jerusalem was the same word and meaning of Darusalam.
But Allah doth call to the Home of Peace (darussalam) He doth guide whom He pleaseth to a Way that is straight.
But after the fall of Solomo (Sulayman) Jerusalem which was described as the Wife of God, making adultery with idiologies of Egyptians, Greece, Assyirians( Ezekiel 16 (all verses)), so the old Testament was ended thereafter. And the Juds was punished, only after they making lamentations the Juds was taken into power again leads by Yesus who was making New Testament but he was then traited by Juds again. That was the ending of empire of Ishaq family, which after words emerge the power of Ismael familiy lead by Muhammad whose making his center of worshipness at Mecca where Ka'bah was made as symbol of Muhammad empire.
But Muhammad empire was downed by Mongolians, the khalifa wa ended there after. The Old testament made by childern of Ismael was ended. There for we have to make New testament to make Islam as khalifa again.
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Salam, I thought this article did a good job of explaining the concept, establishing the Temple Mount as the area in question.
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/hajj.htm
Please forgive my ignorance if this has been discussed to death, I am pretty new at this.
DCS
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JK- No but i see Masjidul-Haram and Ka'abah in the same verse. But i see no problem of the bayt referring to the Ka'abah as well. You say "how are the PEOPLE being called to the bayt while the idolators are...". Well in the context GOD is calling the BELIEVING PEOPLE to Hajj and NOT just all people. Do you think GOD calls idolators to the bayt? I dont think so. GOD Bless!
The "messenger RK" forgot to read the ayat carefully, it would seem.
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
I wonder why Ibrahim didn't tell this to Rashad when Rashad visited him during his night journey?
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Salam "mquran",
The "messenger RK" forgot to read the ayat carefully, it would seem.
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
I wonder why Ibrahim didn't tell this to Rashad when Rashad visited him during his night journey?
JK- That is correct , ALL MANKIND IS TO BE INFORMED TO GO FOR THE PILGRIMAGE but whether they do it, and hence becoming believers, or they dont, thus remaing rejectors, is up to them. This is the sense RK, myself and many others clearly concluded from the above and other such verses. Last but not least, YES, i do believe the above Quranic Prophecy will repeat itself as it did in Muhammad's time when all true Quran Alone Muslims will come for the pilgrimage to the Ka'bah in peace and the idolators would be defeated GW. GOD Bless!
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JK- That is correct , ALL MANKIND IS TO BE INFORMED TO GO FOR THE PILGRIMAGE but whether they do it, and hence becoming believers, or they dont, thus remaing rejectors, is up to them. This is the sense RK, myself and many others clearly concluded from the above and other such verses. Last but not least, YES, i do believe the above Quranic Prophecy will repeat itself as it did in Muhammad's time when all true Quran Alone Muslims will come for the pilgrimage to the Ka'bah in peace and the idolators would be defeated GW. GOD Bless
Lol, and you AND your messenger failed to read al-quraan properly there , 'johnny-k'.
Look at the ayat again
And proclaim the Pilgrimage among HUMANKIND they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways; (22/26)
Does it say they will become believers or only part of them will turn up ? No, HUMANKIND itself will come.Lets not play assumption games here. Your messenger already told you most of mankind wont believe (12/103) and most of the believers believe with shrik (12/106). Yet they respond to the call.
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Salam "mquran",
I dont understand why unbelieving people would come to the pilgrimage. It doesnt make any sense unless they decide to believe. Regarding the majority argument, that is most probably confined to the HEART BELIEF or real intention. There would surely be a time when almost all people oin earth would OUTWARDLY CLAIM to be believing in Quran Alone but who knows whats in therir hearts. Get it? GOD Bless! -
I dont understand why unbelieving people would come to the pilgrimage. It doesnt make any sense unless they decide to believe. Regarding the majority argument, that is most probably confined to the HEART BELIEF or real intention. There would surely be a time when almost all people oin earth would OUTWARDLY CLAIM to be believing in Quran Alone but who knows whats in therir hearts. Get it? GOD Bless!
Unbelieving people or not, they are part of mankind. As to why they go, they go to see the benefits for themselves (22/2.
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Salam "mquran",
Unbelieving people or not, they are part of mankind. As to why they go, they go to see the benefits for themselves (22/2.
JK- I just resolved the "majority being believers" problem. They may seem to be believers to us thus they HAVE TO BE PERMITTED TO ENTER SACRED MASJID FROM OUR RELATIVE POINT OF VIEW. But this does NOT mean that they are really beievers in their hearts. Only GOD knows that and this is exactly my point. Thus there is no problem with Ka'bah and Sacred Masjid related to pilgrimage in Mecca. GOD Bless!
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JK- I just resolved the "majority being believers" problem. They may seem to be believers to us thus they HAVE TO BE PERMITTED TO ENTER SACRED MASJID FROM OUR RELATIVE POINT OF VIEW. But this does NOT mean that they are really beievers in their hearts. Only GOD knows that and this is exactly my point. Thus there is no problem with Ka'bah and Sacred Masjid related to pilgrimage in Mecca. GOD Bless!
"JK". majority of people are UNBELIEVERS. Not believers. Your problem arises from the fact that you still interpret kafir, muslim, mumin etc etc the way a religious person would do it. Interpret al-quran bil quraan and all problems disappear.
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Salam "mquran",
"JK". majority of people are UNBELIEVERS. Not believers. Your problem arises from the fact that you still interpret kafir, muslim, mumin etc etc the way a religious person would do it. Interpret al-quran bil quraan and all problems disappear.
JK- You still dont get my point, do you? Now please read the following statements of mine carefully. THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN UNBELIEVERS AT HEART, WHILE ACTING TO BE BELIEVERS IN THE OPEN, AND SINCERE BELIEVERS WHO BELIEVE BOTH AT HEART AND ALSO SHOW IT OPENLY. The Hajj pilgrimage could include BOTH these categories. Let me demonstrate this with an example. We know GOD forbade us from allowing the unbelievers to enter the sacred masjid. But what if they claim to be believers and always act as believers infront of us. Then relative to us theyr believers so we would have to allow them to enter the sacred Masjid. So yes, hypocrites may also come for hajj seeing their own benefits but this doesnt make RK's nor my concept of hajj and ka'abah wrong. When GOD says the majority of people are unbelievers, it would include those hypocrites who we think are believers. GOD never said that hypocrites cannot enter the ka'abah if that is what you mean. They can but we are to do our best to detect them. Thats the point to ponder on. 928 has to be seen as a COMMAND and not as a stemant of fact like RK translated it
O you who believe, the idol worshipers are polluted; they shall not be permitted to approach the Sacred Masjid after this year. If you fear loss of income, GOD will shower you with His provisions, in accordance with His will. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.
Thus once again we see that it is for us humans to keep REALIZED/DETECTED UNBELIEVERS AWAY FROM THE KA'BAH. I hope you understood this now. GOD Bless! -
Salam "bmbmm",
Hi Jonny,
So are you saying that Haram is Sacred? Masjid-al-haram is a mosque?
JK- Haram can mean both Sacred/Holy and Forbidden/Restricted deoending on the context. I wouldnt translated "masjid" as "mosque" but rather "a place of prostration". A GOD Aloner would built a Masjid which is dedictaed for worshipping Him Alone. Thus "masjid-al-haram" is the "Holy place of prostration" which was setup by Abraham and Ishmael and dedicated for worshipping GOD Alone. GOD Bless!
