100 lashes

unknownuser

salam

i am learning the quran and tryin to follow all what it is written in it and praying to Allah almight to guide me to the right path ,
right to now i am in quite a confused state so just tring to remove the doubts from my mind

Salam

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

peace be with you

unknownuser

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

I dont think Allah tells us to believe anything blindly in Quran.
Allah tells us to read, understand, ponder, to use 'reasoning'.
So, only when one analyzes, understands and find it within reason, he is expected to obey/follow. Islam is not a religion of compulsion. And each one of us need to undertake this understanding and reasoning ourself and believe/follow that one sees as correct, for we are accountable to Allah for each of our belief and deed.

So, its good that she is seeking understanding.
And its good that she is questioning, as well.

Peace!

unknownuser

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

I dont think Allah tells us to believe anything blindly in Quran.
Allah tells us to read, understand, ponder, to use 'reasoning'.
So, only when one analyzes, understands and find it within reason, he is expected to obey/follow. Islam is not a religion of compulsion. And each one of us need to undertake this understanding and reasoning ourself and believe/follow that one sees as correct, for we are accountable to Allah for each of our belief and deed.

So, its good that she is seeking understanding.
And its good that she is questioning, as well.

Peace!

I didnt tell her that really

however you have to watch out for 37 as it clearly says the true believers (the ones with knowledge) will take the mutashabihat verses as from Allah without chasing the meanings beacuse ONLY ALLAH knows the meanings of those verses as 37 tells us

see, Allah is telling us that THE ONES WITH KNOWLEDGE will believe blindly in the vague verses without knowing the meanings becuse both the perfect and vague verses are from Allah, and that is the mesage I was trying to tell sister samina

peace

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

I dont think Allah tells us to believe anything blindly in Quran.
Allah tells us to read, understand, ponder, to use 'reasoning'.
So, only when one analyzes, understands and find it within reason, he is expected to obey/follow. Islam is not a religion of compulsion. And each one of us need to undertake this understanding and reasoning ourself and believe/follow that one sees as correct, for we are accountable to Allah for each of our belief and deed. We should seek Allah's guidance through prayers to help us find the truth. Thats how we get answers. No blind faiths.
So, its good that she is seeking understanding.
And its good that she is questioning, as well.

I didnt tell her that really
however you have to watch out for 37 as it clearly says the true believers (the ones with knowledge) will take the mutashabihat verses as from Allah without chasing the meanings beacuse ONLY ALLAH knows the meanings of those verses as 37 tells us
see, Allah is telling us that THE ONES WITH KNOWLEDGE will believe blindly in the vague verses without knowing the meanings becuse both the perfect and vague verses are from Allah, and that is the mesage I was trying to tell sister samina

37 He it is who has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, containing messages that are clear in and by themselves - and these are the essence of the divine writ - as well as others that are allegorical. Now those whose hearts are given to swerving from the truth go after that part of the divine writ which has been expressed in allegory, seeking out confusion, and seeking its final meaning ; but none save God knows its final meaning. Hence, those who are deeply rooted in knowledge say "We believe in it; the whole is from our Sustainer - albeit none takes this to heart save those who are endowed with insight.

The vague verses mentioned here are the allegorial ones or the ones that would need more knowledge to understand, than we possess. Since God is the most knowledgable and the most wise, He is the one who is likely to know explanations of such verses exactly. We can only strive to understand them, with whatever knowledge we possess. For eg, now we understand the verse about the sperm and ovum explained in Quran, becoz we have knowledge of it from science. Would people thousands of years ago understood that verse like we do now? So, similarly, people in the future generations may get closer to the meanings of such vague verses on science etc, becoz of their increased knowledge. But its only Allah who knows the complete truth. And in this verse too, I dont think the knowledgables ones say we believe blindly. I think, they feel their might be some truth, some deeper knowledge that they cannot figure out yet, and so they believe in it. And also the verses on metaphysical events, such as angels, heaven, day of judgement etc, which we cant know from anywhere else. So, whatever is said in the Quran, about them, we believe, to the extent we understand. We might not be understanding it the correct way becoz we have no way of reasoning, checking etc, but yet, we believe. Only Allah is the most knowledgable.

So, these verses are of knowledge/understanding and not of obeying/following. Allah is saying that even the most knowledgable ones wouldnt understand those verses completely but will try to, and will accept it as from Allah because they realise the verse might contain truth/ knowledge which is beyond their understanding.

And 24.2 is not an allegorical or unclear verse.
Its not only a verse that requires understanding but also following. So, its important that we think, analyze and reason before we believe/follow for we will be questioned by Allah.

Peace!

unknownuser

Sister Pm

I don't really get your point?

very strange indeed here is what i told sister samina again

Salam

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

peace be with you

why you are taking my message to her as negative sister?

come on, give me a break, will ya sister?

thanks

unknownuser

and havn't i replied to her question regardng the lashes verse?

I guess I did, again sister PM, I don't get your point shock

peace

unknownuser

Hi Ahmed Bahgat,

Sister Pm
I don't really get your point?
very strange indeed here is what i told sister samina again

I wish you all the best with the will of Allah, it is not an easy task btw as well when you reach the full submission state in shaallah, you can't be selective in what should be believed in the Quran and what should not

why you are taking my message to her as negative sister?

come on, give me a break, will ya sister?

Oops! U have misunderstood me.
Relax, Ahmed Bahgat!

My reply was directed at ''u cant be selective in what u should believe'.

And I was not being negative. Was just opining on that point. Coz it kind of might mean to say 'u should not question'. That is what I was explaining about. that one should think, reason, analyze before believing or following. No blind beliefs.

No hard feelings, please

Peace!

unknownuser

Ok sister

I still insist that she can't be selective with the Quran

she can be selective with the hadith, BUT NOT WITH THE QURAN

that was my message and I can't see anything wrong with it, it does not mean that she does not try to understand it, i do encourage her to do, but I was telling her sort of indirectly that some verses can't be understood perfectly and she still has to believe in it

the point i was making indirectly also that if she failed to understand a verse she must still believe in it as a true submitter should, if you check my comment again, you will see that I mentioned a true SUBMITTER will believe blindly in the Quran, and to be honest I believe over 70% of the believers ARE NOT true submitters, a wild guess I should say so you dont come and and ask me where I got that bloody figure from, I mean at least over 50% of the believers are not submitters because simply they dont understand what the difference between a submitter and a believer is

peace

samina

peace

i have decided not to follow anythin blindly , i will reason with others and with my self then i would follow it .

it is so easy to question a non muslim based on their religion and their scriptures wht abt us ? dont we have the right to question .
i am not question purposely i am question because i am not in peace ,i am disturbed ,i cant just convince myself by tellin tht "no this it ,u have to follow it wether u like it or not " then one verse comes in my mind in which Allah almighty tells us "
91.8. Then He(Allah) showed him(man) what is wrong for him and what is right for him;

we know somewhere in our hearts wht is right and wht is wrong
i am not tellin tht giving 100 lashes to the adultere is wrong but deep in my heart i dont even know wether it is right thing to do i just want other peoples coments on this

i am have been praying to Allah to guide to the right path ,ease my difficulties and make my heart clear of all the doubts

pls tell me am i wrong anywhere??????

samina

i am not being selective in quran .

4726 This is because they have said to those who hate God's revelation, "We shall obey you in some matters." But God knows all their secrets ().

if i were selective abt quran then i wouldnt be askin others opinion on this i would just avoid the verse n not think abt it n just tell my self thts it thts the way it is

but i want to convince myself with this from my heart without any doubt

agentxxx

peace Ahmed/all,
ahmed wrote

A perfect and justified punishment for such crime, and BTW the verse also says that THEY MUST BE LASHED IN PUBLIC

indeed a justified punishment for those who had four wives and many concubines but even then indulged in fornication, but harsh for someone single or with one wife and no concubines. I am not justifying fornication but I think many different factors has to be considered, this punishment needs to be redefined simply because it cannot be carried out now.

peace.

el-Aziz

salam

i am learning the quran and tryin to follow all what it is written in it and praying to Allah almight to guide me to the right path ,
right to now i am in quite a confused state so just tring to remove the doubts from my mind

Salam Amina!
Good for you you're trying to make things make sense.

I certainly don't think that 100 lashes is a divine commandment, no way Jos?! The reason is that it seriously endangers ones health and life. It is not unusual that people die of 100 lashes in Iran. Would G-d command such a thing?

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Just as I am not in agreement with cutting someones hand for theft, I do not see the justification of lashing someone 100 times. What do you use? How hard do you strike?

Just makes no sense.

The prophet Joseph was near to commiting this crime, one of our examples of high morality!

My humble opinion is that we are being shown how terrible this crime is. But much more reflection must be done on this issue as that is not sufficient as an explanation either, but I dont think the God is instructing us to torture a human for not transcending thier desires.

samina

salam
brother enquirer had posted the meaning of 100 lashes on this forum only i would like to share this information with all

"the word for 100 strikes(jild) can also mean show or witness in arabic
the word jild in arabic can apply to what is brought to witness.(jild also means skin,which is something that can be hidden or witnessed)
100 witnesses(jild) is a phrase which can be used to signify a literal amount or a large amount. In arabic numbers can sometimes be used metaphorically,just like in english several can mean an indeterminate amount like many. An example is in the quran; 'if you ask for their forgiveness 70(sabaeyn) times allah wont forgive the continual wrong-doers'. Now this does not mean literally 70 or that would mean they would be forgiven if i asked 71 times. This shows to me that this 70 just represents a numerous amount of times. Applying this to 100 witnesses would just mean a large amount of people would witness that these people are people who indulge in zina knowingly. This is backed up by the verse stating later that a party of the believers should witness the 'punishment. This is a an example of constructive peer pressure. The verse about the prophets wives and the women from the right hand(for want of a better term) having double or half the punishment(200 or 50 witnesses, if they commit indecency without repenting) reflects the fact that the prophets wives should have more access to the truth while the others have a lesser access to the truth or have other factors relating to there background that demands a lesser peer-pressure."

pls comment and give ur views on this thanks

unknownuser

Peace

It can't make sense if understood this way, bacause the verse is a law, not a comment to mock the believers, also witnesses were used in another verse, in which that 4 of them will be required for a certain bad deed to be proven.

"Igliddohom" means to lash them and the total number of lashes is 100 100 times IN PUBLIC, this is what the verse says regarding the punishment "IN PUBLIC", applying brother enq. understanding will make the verse a joke

peace